Commuting revisited- 2011

[MossRoad]

Guess where 99 percent of his business is?

Outer space?

 

[riptides]

Outer space?

Nope. The shuttle is soon to be history.

Asia of course.

It is most unfortunate that this technology was not adopted by the US. Introduced in the early late 1960's-early 1970's it had great promise with actual customer (USA) prototype infrastructure.

 

[MossRoad]

Nope. The shuttle is soon to be history.

Asia of course.

It is most unfortunate that this technology was not adopted by the US. Introduced in the early late 1960's-early 1970's it had great promise with actual customer (USA) prototype infrastructure.

I read an article where the author determined it would be a more efficient use of BTUs if we burned corn to heat our homes and used natural gas to run our vehicles. Converting oil into gasoline or diesel fuel or converting corn into ethanol wastes too many BTUs whereas natural gas needs little conversion before it can be burned in a car and dry corn burns very efficiently in a house. Well into the 90% efficiency rating. And both natural gas and burned corn are very clean to burn compared to oil products.

Ethanol is a looser all the way around. Farmers could grow and sell corn to burn in houses instead of being converted to automobile fuel. Oil companies do not want you to know that because it cuts them out of the picture.

 

[clemsonfor]

I read an article where the author determined it would be a more efficient use of BTUs if we burned corn to heat our homes and used natural gas to run our vehicles. Converting oil into gasoline or diesel fuel or converting corn into ethanol wastes too many BTUs whereas natural gas needs little conversion before it can be burned in a car and dry corn burns very efficiently in a house. Well into the 90% efficiency rating. And both natural gas and burned corn are very clean to burn compared to oil products.

Ethanol is a looser all the way around. Farmers could grow and sell corn to burn in houses instead of being converted to automobile fuel. Oil companies do not want you to know that because it cuts them out of the picture.

But at the current price of corn what normal person could afford to buy it to heat with. I heard its something like$10 for a 50lb bag, at least thats what i pay for shelled deer corn, sometimes $8. It can be had cheaper if bought from the farm in 55 gallon drums though.

Anyway i get my wood for free out of the forest. Of course i have fuel expenses with it but so would i in going to the farm and buying corn from the combine. Also you have to load what i have heard several hundred pounds of corn for a 24 hr burn.

 

[MossRoad]

But at the current price of corn what normal person could afford to buy it to heat with. I heard its something like$10 for a 50lb bag, at least thats what i pay for shelled deer corn, sometimes $8. It can be had cheaper if bought from the farm in 55 gallon drums though.

Anyway i get my wood for free out of the forest. Of course i have fuel expenses with it but so would i in going to the farm and buying corn from the combine. Also you have to load what i have heard several hundred pounds of corn for a 24 hr burn.

The current price of corn is inflated because of ethanol.

 

[kenmac]

Just my opinion. I wouldn't put much $ into a vehicle that I was destroying @ 140 miles per day.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I just talked to a buddy with a brother in law who's a travelling salesman. He gets a stipend for a car monthly. The 1st go around he bought a new car. After seeing all the stipend go for the new car, he bought a 7 year old Honda Accord. Drove it for 5 years and just now bought another Accord 8 years old. He's pocketing pretty much his whole stipend.

Hey Moss, my neighbor works at a trucking company that uses chase cars. They had 3 Impalas like ours but now 2. It seems one crapped out at almost 400,000 miles. (It has had the tranny replaced).

 

[MossRoad]

Hey Moss, my neighbor works at a trucking company that uses chase cars. They had 3 Impalas like ours but now 2. It seems one crapped out at almost 400,000 miles. (It has had the tranny replaced).

Ours has 150K on it. Due to get to the tranny guy soon for another tune up/looksee. The body is starting to get some rust spots, but all things considered, an almost 12 year old car that sits outside 24/7 in northern Indiana where salt is quite prevalent. I am quite happy with it.

It is the LS model with the 3.8. The intake manifold started leaking coolant. It is a plastic manifold. I changed that myself. The waterpump started leaking. I changed that myself. The power steering cooler (which is just a long steel tube with a loop in it) sprung a leak at a clip. I patched that with hose. One rear strut went out. My neighbor replaced the rear pair and I could have done that myself with his directions. Only three sets of tires. Brake rotors 3 times. Pads about 5 or 6. Several sets of wipers. One monster hail storm with 2" stones! Oil every 3K miles... And a teenage driver for the last 2 years. :laughing:

 

[riptides]

I just talked to a buddy with a brother in law who's a travelling salesman. He gets a stipend for a car monthly. The 1st go around he bought a new car. After seeing all the stipend go for the new car, he bought a 7 year old Honda Accord. Drove it for 5 years and just now bought another Accord 8 years old. He's pocketing pretty much his whole stipend.

Hey Moss, my neighbor works at a trucking company that uses chase cars. They had 3 Impalas like ours but now 2. It seems one crapped out at almost 400,000 miles. (It has had the tranny replaced).

Kind of hard to argue with that.

I don't see getting a new car and trying to keep it fueled in my future. Too expensive.

 

[harleyguy302]

But at the current price of corn what normal person could afford to buy it to heat with. I heard its something like$10 for a 50lb bag, at least thats what i pay for shelled deer corn, sometimes $8. It can be had cheaper if bought from the farm in 55 gallon drums though.

Anyway i get my wood for free out of the forest. Of course i have fuel expenses with it but so would i in going to the farm and buying corn from the combine. Also you have to load what i have heard several hundred pounds of corn for a 24 hr burn.

I heat my house with only corn. It doesn't take several hundred pounds of corn for a 24 hr burn. On average I go through about a bushal of corn a day(I think 52 or 56lbs is what a busel weights) . Basically two 5 gallon buckets day. Less if its above 30. I buy my corn straight from the elevator and store it all winter in a gravity wagon. The local elevator is only 3 blocks away. This year from Sept till now I have heated my house for under $1k. I am still burning now. I Love my corn heat. I keep the house around 75 all winter. When I heated with gas we kept it at 68. By the way I am heating around 2200 sq ft with a corn stove that doesn't attach to the furnace.
When corn was $2 a bushel it was way cheaper. Last time I bought corn it was around $7. I maybe looking into burning some wood pellets next. I will need to do some price comparions to see which will be better. I may do a 50/50 mix.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I'm wondering out loud thinking of options to reduce monthly costs. I have 2 hours a day or more to think about these things. My last commuter was a Saturn that got about 32 mpg on my commute but here's an issue....they have started repaving roads here in Texas with very coarse (marble sized) overlay. You can't hardly hear the radio in most small cars like the Saturn or my mom's '98 Toyota Corolla. I hate this repaving overlay!

Options: #1 Buy mom's Corolla for cheap ($2500). Only has about 55k miles. Gets about 32-34 mpg which is about a 22% improvement. Could save about $120/ month in gas at the expense of the noisy ride. Payoff would be roughly 2 years but would have the benefit and expense of a 3rd vehicle.

#2, Get an electric plug in vehicle that can make the commute. I looked at the Chevy Volt but it won't make it even 1 way on a charge according to what I've read. The Nissan Leaf could make it I think, but surely I'd need my work to offer to let me recharge while there. These vehicles cost over $32,000 or more. The payment would be over $600/month so this doesn't exactly work as my cheapest option. I can't make the numbers work on most any great mileage vehicle that costs over $10K used. My high mileage depreciation devalues whatever vehicle I end up driving. This depreciation can end up costing almost as much as anything else if I were to buy new.

#3, Suck it up and hope the price comes back down soon. I've read to expect these prices to stay up through the summer or longer but I hope not.

I love my job but I love where I live even more. My company is a bit shaky right now and I'd like to see some things get better before I would think about moving closer to work. And, if this job ever ends, there are no other jobs in the area that the pay compares to what I'm getting so I'd have to move again if my job ends. Homes are pricey where my job is but the gas savings would make up the difference I believe.

Are there any other options within reason? Has anyone else thought this through and might I be missing something?

The major costs of commuting are vehicle payment, fuel, depreciation, tires batteries and oil, and of course maintenance and breakdowns. Other costs are insurance and the stress of driving in a noisy tin can compared to a much quieter car at the expense of 5-7 mpg or so.

I understand where your coming from - I had a lot of the same issuses in mind when I bought my house out in the country / far suburbs away from the city where my job is. Since then, I've been doing about 55 miles each way for the nearly 16 years. Based on my experience with the drive and with cars in general, my advice would be option #1 -- that little car is cheap enough and may run for hundreds of thousands of miles yet.
In the first couple of years of commuting, I went through a few domestics, each of which I picked up used / cheap -- crappy K-Cars, Escorts, ect -- I worked on 'em all too often and had too many tow truck rides. Then I switched to the Nissan Stanza that was my wifes car we bought used w/75k on it for $5k (of course that was in 94) . All I ever did was change the oil, tires and other basic maint. stuff. When it finally died 7 or 8 years later at around 450k, I bought another used Nissan, then another.....they where all cheap to own and got better milage than they where rated for...and only once did I have a breakdwon - which was my fault for putting off replacing a worn belt which broke and left me parked on the side of the road. The only serious work done to any of them was due to a wreck /deer hit or general wear and tear after hundreds of thousand of miles. I've found the parts to be relatively cheap and everything easy to work on when I needed to. I stick to standard trans 'cause they'll last forever with just a new clutch once in a while (I usually get 250K or more out of clutch)....I guess I sound like an advertisement for Nissan, but they've earned my loyalty in my book.....


I don't have any faith that the new hybrids or electrics will have the longevity to be worth the cost when your turning real milage everyday. How many miles or cycles will the batteries last?....Even with high gas prices, I prefer to stick with the proven reliability of the gas engine drivetrain - besides, you can buy a cheap traditional car fairly cheap that gets 32mpg or even better. Also - many new cars equiped with stuff like multiple airbags might be even safer than an older, larger, vehicle in the same crash....these ideas in mind is what put me in my first brand new Nissan when the cash for clunkers crap messed up the whole used car market in 09 leaving me nothing worth buying for the cash I had on hand and nothing I thought worth financing used either. I fought hard NOT to by brand new for a commuter car. I was ready to piece together 2 wrecks and build a car (I've done it before when the parts fell in my lap for next to nothing) but couln't even find stuff to do it. So, once I checked the insurance and found out the cost was negligable and the payment was as good, if not better, than the financing I'd get on something used, I was sold. 54k since Oct 09 so far and no hickups.

 

[clemsonfor]

I heat my house with only corn. It doesn't take several hundred pounds of corn for a 24 hr burn. On average I go through about a bushal of corn a day(I think 52 or 56lbs is what a busel weights) . Basically two 5 gallon buckets day. Less if its above 30. I buy my corn straight from the elevator and store it all winter in a gravity wagon. The local elevator is only 3 blocks away. This year from Sept till now I have heated my house for under $1k. I am still burning now. I Love my corn heat. I keep the house around 75 all winter. When I heated with gas we kept it at 68. By the way I am heating around 2200 sq ft with a corn stove that doesn't attach to the furnace.
When corn was $2 a bushel it was way cheaper. Last time I bought corn it was around $7. I maybe looking into burning some wood pellets next. I will need to do some price comparions to see which will be better. I may do a 50/50 mix.

Several hundred was an exageration, but i thought it was closer to a 100lbs for a home that size. Thats still some decent cash though at current prices. I can heat with my heatpumps here in SC for less than that i beleive. I burn Wood which i beleive to be in the Several hundred $ range a year after you add all the gas up for the truck, and files etc for the saw. That is counting my work for free. And this is to provide about 70% of the heat needed for my 2500sqft first floor. Granted i live in SC but my home has no floor or wall insulation so it will be like a home more like a few hundred miles north of me with minimal insulation.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Just my opinion. I wouldn't put much $ into a vehicle that I was destroying @ 140 miles per day.

If you figure cost per mile, you will be maintaining that 140 mile per day vehicle very carefully.

As for hybrids and battery operated vehicles, they are designed for the urban market. If you do 100 miles per day, you will get better mileage and reliability out of a conventional engine, at half the cost. If you putter around in town every day, or spend a lot of time in traffic jams, the battery may be worth it.

 

[2manyrocks]

I read an article where the author determined it would be a more efficient use of BTUs if we burned corn to heat our homes and used natural gas to run our vehicles. Converting oil into gasoline or diesel fuel or converting corn into ethanol wastes too many BTUs whereas natural gas needs little conversion before it can be burned in a car and dry corn burns very efficiently in a house. Well into the 90% efficiency rating. And both natural gas and burned corn are very clean to burn compared to oil products.

Ethanol is a looser all the way around. Farmers could grow and sell corn to burn in houses instead of being converted to automobile fuel. Oil companies do not want you to know that because it cuts them out of the picture.

I don't know why this post brought this to mind, but "Bring back the Stanley Steamer Automobile." It's probably more environmentally friendly than the electric hybrids and cuts the electric utilities out, too.

 

[riptides]

I don't know why this post brought this to mind, but "Bring back the Stanley Steamer Automobile." It's probably more environmentally friendly than the electric hybrids and cuts the electric utilities out, too.

Heck, go all natural. Buy a horse or two, if you need transport, a wooden coach or buggy.

 

[EE_Bota]

Heck, go all natural. Buy a horse or two, if you need transport, a wooden coach or buggy.

Or go half natural: Feed spent brewer's grains to cattle, and eat the beef, and burn the chips.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Or go half natural: Feed spent brewer's grains to cattle, and eat the beef, and burn the chips.

I've thought about the Fred Flinstone method but I'm not in good enough shape.

 

[riptides]

I've thought about the Fred Flinstone method but I'm not in good enough shape.

Well, if you car pool, you can always slack a little. I think Barney did most of the work.

 

[fishman]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned a motorcycle. Older Japanese bikes can be had pretty cheap and get 35-45 mpg. I bought an '83 Honda 650 with 8k on the clock for $500. Cheap transportation, until you buy another, and another. . .

 

[Alan L.]

Back in 2006 I traded my pickup on a new Honda Accord 4cyl. It now has 158K miles, has given no trouble so far, and I get 30-34 mpg on my 110 mile round trip. My brother has a civic and it is so uncomfortable I wouldn't be able to last in that vehicle.

I don't see the point in getting a diesel with the fuel price so much more than gas, and hybrids cost too much.

I suppose you could slow down and save a little - frankly I have never noticed a difference in fuel mileage based on speed. If its a long trip without stops the mileage is better, even if I am driving 80. In town, not near as good. I suppose you could cut out the floor board and do a Fred Flintstone and really save gas.

It would also seem that if you change oil more often and use premium gasoline the additional cost would offset any mileage increase.

I plan on keeping the Accord for another 100K miles at least. Its a good compromise - good mileage and comfort at the same time. And reliable.