Commuting revisited- 2011

[Pete Judd]

How come, we can't have one of these. Volkswagen introduces world’s most economical car | Car Advice | Reviews

 

[boggen]

not sure, if it is a rule or not. but i thought going much slower than what traffic is moving. = a ticket. due to it places many folks into a dangerous situation as others have already noted about.

as far as deprecation. that many miles regardless will drop anything. i would just toss deprecation out the window. and find something that will be good for 5 to 10 years. go with a smaller engine. granted you may not be able to push the peddle to metal to pass folks. but gas savings. speaking of peddle to metal, get the teenager out of ya. i don't press it down to the max going onto the highway, or from stops. pending on size of A/C see about a smaller a/c motor granted less cooling, but less eating up power errr gas.

2 hour driving, eats up a lot of time in your life. you might like living were you are. but if is straining ya. get something closer, then when it comes time to retire start looking for what you want. change can be good and bad. but if ya spending 10 hours driving a week. you could be doing a lot more things.

 

[IXLR8]

I have a 02 TDI, 240K miles on it now, nothing but routine maintenance and a few of the VW foibles. I drive the speed limit and get 56 mpg. For the last 6 years I have done a 200 mile commute once per week. It is an 8 minute difference in travel time if I do 75 vs 65, I don't have to worry about the jerks/tailgaters/Nascar drivers in the left lane and I get 4-5 mpg better driving the slower speed. The older cars (99.5-03) get better mileage and are cheaper to buy. If you can do the maintenance yourself on the TDI, they are a great little car. If you have to depend on the dealer for repairs/maintenance... stay far away.

 

[MossRoad]

My commute is about 70 miles each way. I'm paying about $540./month to buy gasoline at $3.75/gallon. My car gets about 25-26 real world mpg (checked every tank fillup). 2003 Impala, 3.4 V6 pushrod engine.

I'm wondering out loud thinking of options to reduce monthly costs. I have 2 hours a day or more to think about these things. My last commuter was a Saturn that got about 32 mpg on my commute but here's an issue....they have started repaving roads here in Texas with very coarse (marble sized) overlay. You can't hardly hear the radio in most small cars like the Saturn or my mom's '98 Toyota Corolla. I hate this repaving overlay!

Options: #1 Buy mom's Corolla for cheap ($2500). Only has about 55k miles. Gets about 32-34 mpg which is about a 22% improvement. Could save about $120/ month in gas at the expense of the noisy ride. Payoff would be roughly 2 years but would have the benefit and expense of a 3rd vehicle.

#2, Get an electric plug in vehicle that can make the commute. I looked at the Chevy Volt but it won't make it even 1 way on a charge according to what I've read. The Nissan Leaf could make it I think, but surely I'd need my work to offer to let me recharge while there. These vehicles cost over $32,000 or more. The payment would be over $600/month so this doesn't exactly work as my cheapest option. I can't make the numbers work on most any great mileage vehicle that costs over $10K used. My high mileage depreciation devalues whatever vehicle I end up driving. This depreciation can end up costing almost as much as anything else if I were to buy new.

#3, Suck it up and hope the price comes back down soon. I've read to expect these prices to stay up through the summer or longer but I hope not.

I love my job but I love where I live even more. My company is a bit shaky right now and I'd like to see some things get better before I would think about moving closer to work. And, if this job ever ends, there are no other jobs in the area that the pay compares to what I'm getting so I'd have to move again if my job ends. Homes are pricey where my job is but the gas savings would make up the difference I believe.

Are there any other options within reason? Has anyone else thought this through and might I be missing something?

The major costs of commuting are vehicle payment, fuel, depreciation, tires batteries and oil, and of course maintenance and breakdowns. Other costs are insurance and the stress of driving in a noisy tin can compared to a much quieter car at the expense of 5-7 mpg or so.

For overall cost savings... keep the Impala. You have a good tranny in it now. That is about the only major thing that will go wrong with that car, and the most expensive. It will go another 100K with no payments. 3K for a tranny rebuild on an Impala seems to be the going rate. However, $500.00 for a used one, $500 in maintenance and $500 to put it in will get you just as reliable one for 1/2 the price.

Did you only figure fuel savings on the 98 Toyota? If so, that is not the total cost of ownership. That is only the fuel savings. Yes, that will pay off the car in about 2 years. But what else will go wrong with that car compared to the Impala? Probably not much, as the Toyotas are pretty dependable, just something to consider. In two years the Toyota will be a 15 year old car with 120K on it. The Impala will be a 10 year old car. Also, the Impala is huge inside compared to the Toyota. Make sure the comfort is there in the Toyota compared to the Impala. I'm 6' tall. My legs are very comfortable in our 2000 Impala. Most cars I get in to, my left foot has no where comfortable to go. Not so in the Impala. Just be sure to drive that Toyota a few times in your commute and be sure you are comfortable in it.

I would skip the electric car option, or any new car option, for sure. Buying a new car is a losing proposition. Stick with minimum 3 year old car with some factory warranty still left on it and drive it till it drops. $1000 dollars a year in repairs is still less than car payments.

Considering the VW TDI... I'm looking at those as well. With the mileage you are putting on, it will need a new timing belt every two years. That is a multi-hundred dollar event that you have to figure in. And if that timing belt breaks, you are looking at multi-thousand dollar engine repair. Just one more thing to consider.

Good luck in your decision making process. :thumbsup:

 

[IXLR8]

Considering the VW TDI... I'm looking at those as well. With the mileage you are putting on, it will need a new timing belt every two years. That is a multi-hundred dollar event that you have to figure in. And if that timing belt breaks, you are looking at multi-thousand dollar engine repair. Just one more thing to consider.

Yup.. timing belts are the killer on a TDI, need to be done every 100K miles, at least on the older ones. It is critical the job is done correctly. It is $300 in parts, $300 in labor if you get it done by a good independant mechanic, if a dealer does it it is typically in the $1100-$1300 range. More often than not the dealer does not do it correctly. If not done correctly, you end up with the valves and pistons introducing themselves to each other. If this happens at speed.. then head, pistons and possibly connecting rods are trashed. If you don't change the one time use only stretch bolts on the engine mount.. then you can trash the block.

 

[aczlan]

If you don't change the one time use only stretch bolts on the engine mount.. then you can trash the block.

Been there, seen what happens. A shop reused the stretch bolts 2-3 times on Dads Jetta (timing belt, redone head because of an overtightened tensioner which snapped the new belt, etc) and one bolt broke which allowed the mounting ear to snap off. There is a shop near Syracuse who was able to fix it, for a price which the shop who caused the problem paid (eventually).

Aaron Z

 

[Larry Caldwell]

For overall cost savings... keep the Impala. You have a good tranny in it now. That is about the only major thing that will go wrong with that car, and the most expensive. It will go another 100K with no payments. 3K for a tranny rebuild on an Impala seems to be the going rate. However, $500.00 for a used one, $500 in maintenance and $500 to put it in will get you just as reliable one for 1/2 the price.

The only reason automatic transmissions don't run forever is that people ignore them until they start giving problems, which is too late. If you change the fluid and filter every 50,000 miles and fix any valves that start sticking, you will never have to rebuild one. That is assuming you don't drive like a 16 year old idiot and tear it up. If you tow with an automatic transmission, install a secondary cooler and shorten up the service interval. Getting them too hot will kill the fluid, which will kill the transmission.

A manual transmission and differential also need to be serviced regularly. People don't realize it, but a gear box will run much hotter than an engine on a hot day. I run full synthetic lube in all my conventional gear boxes. I went through two differentials on the Jeep before I figured out what was happening. Since switching to synthetic gear grease, no problems.

 

[dmccarty]

Time to work up a spread sheet to look at all of the costs and factors on the cars. Look at the cost per mile for all maintenance needs not just mpg. What is the cost difference per mile between the cars.

I do not see how electric or hybrids will work for you.

Gas or diesel price differences do not seem to favor diesel anymore but the spread sheet will give you better information.

I drive 72ish miles a day mainly on mostly 55 mph roads. I filled up the F350 today and diesel was $4.09 a gallon. The truck got 21.2 mpg at the last two fill ups. :thumbsup: As the weather warms up the mpg will go up to 22.0 though I have only hit 22 once. But I get 21.5-21.9 often in the summer. I drive at 55 mph and it helps the mpg greatly. Going 65 drops the mpg back toward 20 mpg while 70-75 can drop it into 17-18 mpg. Slowing down helps and if the speed limit is 55 mph then it is even better. Going the speed limit in my case does not even cost time. People who pass me just get in front of me and I almost always right behind them until the get on the Interstate and zoom zoom away zigging and zagging out of traffic.

I do use synthetic oil which helps the MPG by maybe .3 mpg. That is not enough to justify using synthetic but it does help the MPG and the long mileage on the oil does save money. This should be in your spread sheet too.

Later,
Dan

 

[riptides]

I too do an extreme commute. Been doing it for over 20 years.

Some options that I use to do:
Ride Share - I actually found a neighbor and we split the driving time.
Car/Van Pools - I found some distant people sharing a common destination
Trains - I hopped on a train
Bus Lines - I did these too.

The option I am doing now:

Got the old S-10 4 banger back on the road. It offers the best gas mileage and carries the lowest operating costs of my fleet.

If I were you, I'd stop by some gas stations along your way and hang something on their boards indicating ride share needs.
I'd also talk with any co-worker to expand your base.

If these fail, perhaps talking with your employer about moving to a 10-12 day schedule is an option.

Face it, after 2-4 hours a day commuting, your productivity could be elsewhere towards the end of the week.

I'd track down the person your passing in the eco-friendly car and see if they would consider a commuting buddy or a slug.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Carry the slow speed logic to it's extreme and drive 25 or 35 and really save gas!

It actually did give me great gas mileage in a van I had on my last visit to Yellowstone. Went from 16 mpg on the highway to 22 when driving all day thru the park at the 35 limit.

How much is your time worth to you? How do you want to spend your life? Sitting in a car doing 55 while watching everybody else zooms by at 75 or 80, ticked off at you because you slow down an entire lane with your gas saving slow poke speed?

Slowing down in Texas? You'll be run over doing 55!

Here's the scenario. You're in the right lane doing 55, everybody else is doing 75 and those behind move over to get around you whenever they get a chance. A semi closing on you has a chance to make a quick lane change. Another rig behind that one is doing 75 and when the truck in front switches abruptly, the second one can't slow down fast enough and 80,000 pounds slams into you. I've seen close calls in exactly this situation.

I don't buy the slow speed solution.

The most efficient speed for most vehicles is about 40 to 45 mph. You have to be in high gear.

I see dozens of drivers every day that would die a thousand deaths if they had to drive the speed limit. The fact is, air resistance goes up with the cube of your air speed. Pushing that air costs you money. On a 70 mile commute, dropping from 75 mph to 65 mph costs you 9 minutes and saves you about $1.10. On shorter drives the time saved drops into the noise, but they money saved keeps adding up.

There are ways of getting even more mileage out of a gallon of gas.

The Ultimate Guide to Hypermiling: 100 Driving and Car Tips and Resources | EcoTrekker

 

[Kyle241]

Out of your choices, the Toyota sounds like a good deal. Yes, you would have to put up with the noise but the cost of it and mileage is excellent.

The electric car thing is only for short commutes or city. They have a long way to go prior to being an accepted norm.

I like the VW TDI's, they are the best out there for mileage and longevity. The hybrids are decent on mileage but replacing those batteries are killer.

 

[IXLR8]

I like the VW TDI's, they are the best out there for mileage and longevity. The hybrids are decent on mileage but replacing those batteries are killer.

Replacing batteries on a hybrid is a killer... IF you have to change them. Our local taxi service uses nothing by Prius vehicles, they get traded in when they have between 250K-300K miles on them. From what I have read, they have traded in over 15 vehicles with that sort of mileage on them and none of them have needed batteries. Great around town cars, they just don't add up $$$ for commuters.

 

[Maxfli]

I have a VW Passat TDI at about 38 mpg (half highway). I could probably get it above 40mph is to drove easier. What really appeals to me is a friend of mine has 4 fast food restaurants in his family, and he goes around and picks up all the used deep fryer oil. He is making Bio Diesel in his dad's barn. I think he paid $3500 to $4000 for his setup but I think in his case it works well (he is driving an old Ford diesel pickup). He told me his cost was something like .80 to $1.20 per gallon to make it a few years ago. I am sure he just paid cash for the setup. Not sure the TDI would run well on the Bio Diesel, but I think everything here in Illinois is some form of blended Bio. Wish I had regular access to used oil.

 

[IXLR8]

Not sure the TDI would run well on the Bio Diesel, but I think everything here in Illinois is some form of blended Bio. Wish I had regular access to used oil.

Depends on what year/engine the TDI is. If it is a new Common Rail Diesel, it is risky, if it is high quality BD, the 04-07 PD engines will run on it. There is no issue running it in an older, 03 or earlier engine, it is actually good for them. In the older cars the biggest concern is the BD freeing up junk/sediment in the fuel system and washing it into the fuel filter. The issue is not will the newer engines run with BD, they will, the question is will the BD provide proper lubrication to the high pressure CR pump and injectors. I think VW limits BD to the PD engines to a 5% mixture. Last I heard, VW said no BD in the CR engines.

 

[irvingj]

Yep. 5% max on the BEW (PD) engines is what VW says.

 

[Pilot]

A friend was pulling a trailer from Wisconsin to Oregon with his Dodge Diesel and it failed on him in Montana--would barely pull a hill. Biodiesel ruined the injection pump. Any BD savings were eaten up by the cost of a new pump and renting a truck to get his load home.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

A friend was pulling a trailer from Wisconsin to Oregon with his Dodge Diesel and it failed on him in Montana--would barely pull a hill. Biodiesel ruined the injection pump. Any BD savings were eaten up by the cost of a new pump and renting a truck to get his load home.

More likely the pump was ruined by the new low sulfur fuel, which doesn't have the lubricating qualities of the old style diesel. I add 2-cycle motor oil 100:1 to the diesel I run in the tractor. If you could figure out how to do it at the service station pump, it wouldn't be a bad idea for a road vehicle.

Unless your buddy was hauling his own fuel, he was burning conventional diesel for most of the trip.

 

[two_bit_score]

It's too bad you can't get a CNG vehicle now. That would be great for you. Refuel overnight in your own garage. About 170 mile range per fill up.

 

[Pilot]

My friend was buying whatever diesel he could get on the trip. At home, he used biodiesel all the time; it was just luck that the pump went out on the trip.

 

[riptides]

It's too bad you can't get a CNG vehicle now. That would be great for you. Refuel overnight in your own garage. About 170 mile range per fill up.

My neighbor is CEO for his company that builds and operates CNG, LNG products. He has a car (last I checked) with over 250k miles on it and it is at least 20 years old. He is an ex-rocket scientist.

Guess where 99 percent of his business is?