building a firewood processer

[ihuntbear]

I talked to a guy that has a homemade processer today .He said his saw and down force works off one motor spool.he said he tees off the return line off the motor and put a check valve before the tee.When he tees off he added a pressure reducing valve ,a flow reducing vave that goes to the cylinder.The other line from the cylinder goes back to the motor spool.On the other side of the tee from the motor goes to the tank.That way when you want the bar to raise the motor stops and the cylinder retracts.Does that make sense?

 

[glastron23]

Bear.. what type of saw motor are you using, the Danzco one?? we used a Parker F11, if you want to spend the money it comes with a pressure compensated cylinder control valve built in to control the down pressure on the saw chain as it comes into contact with wood, the more teeth in wood the slower the saw is advanced into the wood, this feed back from the motor required to prevent overloading/stalling the chain in the wood, on the older tree harvesters it was a real problem. breaking a chain is pain, breaking teeth off the chain (chain shot) is just dangerous. http://www.parker.com/literature/HY30-8252-B1-UK.pdf

 

[glastron23]

I talked to a guy that has a homemade processer today .He said his saw and down force works off one motor spool.he said he tees off the return line off the motor and put a check valve before the tee.When he tees off he added a pressure reducing valve ,a flow reducing vave that goes to the cylinder.The other line from the cylinder goes back to the motor spool.On the other side of the tee from the motor goes to the tank.That way when you want the bar to raise the motor stops and the cylinder retracts.Does that make sense?

you can't do this .. motors do not like back pressure,, gear types will blow out the front seal and axial pistons will be reduced in power due to back pressure... the return line should go back to tank unimpeded ....

 

[Scooby074]

Bear.. what type of saw motor are you using, the Danzco one?? we used a Parker F11, if you want to spend the money it comes with a pressure compensated cylinder control valve built in to control the down pressure on the saw chain as it comes into contact with wood, the more teeth in wood the slower the saw is advanced into the wood, this feed back from the motor required to prevent overloading/stalling the chain in the wood, on the older tree harvesters it was a real problem. breaking a chain is pain, breaking teeth off the chain (chain shot) is just dangerous. http://www.parker.com/literature/HY30-8252-B1-UK.pdf

If you dont mind me asking what did you pay for the F11 over here ( i have a price for used from europe)? Also do you happen to remember the price for the compensated model with the added control valve? Id like to build a processor around the F11 assuming its in the budget.

 

[glastron23]

scooby .. thats the problem.. they are NOT CHEAP... i lucked onto 2 used F-11 motors only that came off a harvester head, one had the chain catcher and both were machined for the 404 drive sprockets.... they did not come with the compensated valves.. Dam it... payed 250.00 cdn and had to rebuild the one i used

 

[ihuntbear]

i"m using the Danzco basic saw

 

[glastron23]

for the saw feed control we built our control very close to this one.. just 2 Sun valves were changed
Feed & Motor Control
we built the oiler cylinder and valves our selves... very cheap to build..

 

[glastron23]

here is some good reading... Ed has updated the site since the last time i researched things Firewood Processing White Paper

 

[Scooby074]

scooby .. thats the problem.. they are NOT CHEAP... i lucked onto 2 used F-11 motors only that came off a harvester head, one had the chain catcher and both were machined for the 404 drive sprockets.... they did not come with the compensated valves.. Dam it... payed 250.00 cdn and had to rebuild the one i used

That jives with what i was told. Add few hundred for the rebuild and you got the same price.

I noticed that Danzco has no prices listed. He seems like the type thats rather "proud" of their products so i bet theyre pretty expensive too?

Heres a quick sketch of what im planning, but the more i think about it, im likely going to keep it simple and just build the split section with the adjustable wedge, then i can add the processor when i round up cheap parts.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

That jives with what i was told. Add few hundred for the rebuild and you got the same price.

I noticed that Danzco has no prices listed. He seems like the type thats rather "proud" of their products so i bet theyre pretty expensive too?

Heres a quick sketch of what im planning, but the more i think about it, im likely going to keep it simple and just build the split section with the adjustable wedge, then i can add the processor when i round up cheap parts.

That Parker F11-iP saw motor can defend its 2000$+ price on a 150000$+ harvester head, but not on a low budget firewood processor...

Have you ever thought?? about the option to use the return stroke from the splitter to feed the log forward into the saw cut position.....using a reverse pivoting linkage....and that way save from using another another function (feed motor)....

Together with a up sized gas chainsaw, you would have a low cost, fully functional processor operated with one single spool valve....

..."make it simple is a challenge too..." and will save 1000$+ in hydraulic hardware...

 

[Scooby074]

That Parker F11-iP saw motor can defend its 2000$+ price on a 150000$+ harvester head, but not on a low budget firewood processor...

Have you ever thought?? about the option to use the return stroke from the splitter to feed the log forward into the saw cut position.....using a reverse pivoting linkage....and that way save from using another another function (feed motor)....

Together with a up sized gas chainsaw, you would have a low cost, fully functional processor operated with one single spool valve....

..."make it simple is a challenge too..." and will save 1000$+ in hydraulic hardware...

Several of the base model processors from Hakki or maybe Japa (cant remember) use this method for feeding. Basically the log feed trough is attached to the splitter cylinder, as it cycles it feeds the log forward.

Edit: one model i can find is Pilkemaster. A video might help explain the cycle

YouTube - Pilkemastesr Evo : Firewood Processor and Wood Splitter same time

I like the idea of the log lift in this video

YouTube - Pilkemaster Evo : Fastest Firewood Processor in the market (Short version)

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Several of the base model processors from Hakki or maybe Japa (cant remember) use this method for feeding. Basically the log feed trough is attached to the splitter cylinder, as it cycles it feeds the log forward.

Edit: one model i can find is Pilkemaster. A video might help explain the cycle

YouTube - Pilkemastesr Evo : Firewood Processor and Wood Splitter same time

I like the idea of the log lift in this video

YouTube - Pilkemaster Evo : Fastest Firewood Processor in the market (Short version)

Yepp that was my idea....thanks for sharing these vids....suppose there are more on the same concept out there...
I think the splitter part is based on the same concept as the SuperSplit, fly wheel piston straight from the pto ?? seems just to fast and easy on engine to be hydraulic....

There is no reason to complicate things with a lot of expensive hydraulics, when it can be done simple....wish they had a version with a gas chainsaw hooked up too....

Btw...the Fins are the best in the world on designing any kind of small scale logging equipment as well as full scaled harvesters etc...I think they use Swedish steel too....hahaha...

 

[Scooby074]

Yepp that was my idea....thanks for sharing these vids....suppose there are more on the same concept out there...
I think the splitter part is based on the same concept as the SuperSplit, fly wheel piston straight from the pto ?? seems just to fast and easy on engine to be hydraulic....

There is no reason to complicate things with a lot of expensive hydraulics, when it can be done simple....wish they had a version with a gas chainsaw hooked up too....

Btw...the Fins are the best in the world on designing any kind of small scale logging equipment as well as full scaled harvesters etc...I think they use Swedish steel too....hahaha...

There's no flywheel there AFAIK. The reason for the fast split is that the machine is relatively small tonne (7?) which means small cylinder and the cylinder is also on a regen circuit. Running specialized cylinders (ie large rod diameter) speeds up the return time as well. Plus its a demo, they only pick nice straight grained trees for the vids. Give it some old, gnarley oak and it might not work so fast

I have to agree, hard to argue with the sweedes in forestry. :thumbsup:

 

[ihuntbear]

glastron how did you build the oiler? and how much oil does it go through

 

[ihuntbear]

anybody know how to make a good bar oiler

 

[glastron23]

Sorry for not getting back sooner.. was in NFLD and was not able to take pics...the first pic is of the silver air cylinder (princess auto) attached next to the saw cylinder.. as the saw is stroked to the up position the oil is sucked into the bottom of the air cylinder. when the saw is dropped into the wood the oil is then forced to the chain through bars lube channel. The top clear hose is just vented.
The second pic is of the check valves (3) and the flow regulator. on the bottom check, the oil is drawn from the oil tank ( 4 liter jug ) on the left side (clear tubing) this check is a 5psi and flows from left to right. The oil then flows to the cylinder via the large black air line in the center right tee fittings. As the saw is lowered the oil is forced through the center check (5psi) from right to left, into the flow regulator ( this adjust the amount of oil going to the bar) to the bar via the small black air line. The top check valve (65psi) dumps any oil that is not used for the chain back into the suction hose from the oil tank(flows from right to left). we installed a check valve right at the bar to prevent oil from running out the hose when not in use.
we use about 4 liters every 12 cord, but this can be increased or decreased as required, our chain is only turning when it is not stowed. Jim

 

[ihuntbear]

i didn't know check valves had different presure rating.I know there are hyd ones ,air ones and water ones .good to know:thumbsup:

 

[AKKAMAAN]

If you want to make it even more simple, you can use the return pressure from saw motor, and divert hydraulic oil for lubing the bar...this have been used on harvester heads and feller/buncher saws....Appropriate bar oil have better lubing properties, so with hydraulic oil you need to increase volume a little bit, 25% or so, (needle valve)....usually one use more bar oil than needed....volume also depends on length of saw cycle....keep chain sharp reduces wear....


edit: Bar oil is cheaper than hydraulic oil though...

 

[ihuntbear]

Thanks AKKAMAAN good idea.I think that works for me.Cheaper than buying check valves and an air cylinder but that is a good idea to:thumbsup:

 

[ihuntbear]

my pump is a 22 gpm.can I run this with a 25 gal tank or should i have more fluid.I have two 25 gal tanks but only hooked up one.Hyd fluid around here is 69.00 for a 5 gal container.if i need to use both tanks what size piping do i use to join them.I'm thinking if i have to use them I will hook the suction to one and dump in the other one