LS Room for improvement.

[I have no memory]

I'm a small farmer looking for a tractor that I can do my planting, some tillage, hay mowing, etc. with. I have to have a cab and at least 70 hp for my disc mower. I've looked into LS and spotted them at the National Farm Show last year and got a price on one that I think is not very competitive. Still, if it were here are my relatively newbie thoughts on LS.

It seems LS came out a few years ago and said they want to be in the top four or five in US by 2012. A few weeks ago an article was posted where they cut their incentive agreement with the city, where they distribute their tractors from, because they aren't going to meet employment goals. Granted they came in during rough economic times but I think their not growing as fast as they thought. The US is saturated with compact tractor makers and their are less margins on the smaller tractors than the big ones, (that's why their all made overseas).

From the looks of it LS makes a good tractor but I think they need to improve. They have very few dealers and while they come with a lot of features, their transmissions leave something to be desired. Hydraulic shuttle with synchronized transmission is good, and I think is standard on the 70XX models for 2011, but not awesome. When you just put in a synchronized mechanical reverser transmission on, (not hydraulic), you open up a whole can of worms including used models of other brands going back to the 90's.

LS is backed by LG which is good in that they should be able to weather some tough economic times but is bad because they are a corporation who answers to stock holders. That means that eventually they will want to please them more than the end users.

LS makes and now markets their own branded tractor. I think that is good and I think Kubota is the only other real player in the US that does that for their size of tractors. Unlike Kubota, LS gets their engines from other manufacturers. I like Mitsubishi, (I have essentially a Mitsubishi excavator with Mitsubishi engine in it and it is fantastic.), but am not a big fan of Iveco engines. I'm sure their OK but I would not put an Iveco above a Kubota but I would say the Mitsubishi is as good or better than Kubota, again IMO.

LS needs to offer hydraulic shuttle in their utility line and as far as I know they don't.

I'd love to trade in my CUT and get an LS CUT, buy an Ls utility with loader and the larger LS w/o loader and I'd be set but with their price point and features I can't see that happening right now. I can see the CUT happening sooner than the others because it does look like the LS CUT can compete with any of the other guys.

Just my rant and opinion.

 

[rocknrod]

... I've looked into LS and spotted them at the National Farm Show last year and got a price on one that I think is not very competitive. ...

Sure would like you to find one with more competitive price and standard features.

... I think their not growing as fast as they thought. The US is saturated with compact tractor makers and their are less margins on the smaller tractors than the big ones, (that's why their all made overseas).

Thats probably why they have such a competitive price on them.

LS is backed by LG which is good in that they should be able to weather some tough economic times but is bad because they are a corporation who answers to stock holders. That means that eventually they will want to please them more than the end users.

So what tractor corporation doesnt? John Deere? Guess again.

LS makes and now markets their own branded tractor.... the Mitsubishi is as good or better than Kubota, again IMO.
...

Exactly.

 

[rocknrod]

I read another post of yours, where you got your prices from tractorhouse.
I think I see where your coming from.
If your getting your prices from Tractorhouse your getting some really outrageously priced tractors.
Try a dealer, shop around. Get educated!

 

[I have no memory]

The price for the 7030C w/o loader at $37,390 is from a dealer.

There are the CNH Farmal tractors that are similar that I can get with a few program hours on them for the low to mide $30's, (from a dealer). I would rather have an LS than a CNH Farmal for the tractor but the CNH dealer network, and therefore parts availability, is alot better in my area.

As far as competative price and standard features in my book the two main features on a tractor are transmission and engine. On the larger LS models those two items do not stand out. When you look at other features I'm not sure what would stand out but most of the standard features on the LS are standard on the other manufacturers tractors or frufru. I'm not sure but when I was asked what I wanted on my LS tractor he asked if I wanted air conditioning. I said isn't that standard and he said sometimes not. Now he also was a dealer for Deutz so he may have been referring to that. Like I said before I think that LS is making the hydraulic shuttle standard in the larger models. While all other manufacturers have hydraulic shuttle shift if LS can make that standard and keep their price below others hydraulic that would be good. And, like I said, the Ivecoe does not stand out IMO. It's a sleevless design engine from a new joint venture company with CNH. While parts for it will be available from CNH if LS went out of town I still would prefer a Mitsubishi. So, I gues that's my point, make a hydraulic shuttle tractor with sized right Mitsubishi engine in it and you will stand out IMO. Put a mechanical shuttle with an Iveco engine on it and your not going to.

I'm sure you mean the "get educated" in the most positive sense possible. How do you suggest I do that more than I've done? When I saw them at the farm show I wasn't even interested or looking for another tractor so only did the cursory look. Prices quoted, (which I can't find), I remember being in the ball park of other manufactorers. I've contacted my local dealer and asked him questions. They don't stock the size tractor I'm looking at so I can't test drive it or look at it. I've searched the web and that's how I found this place. I liked what you guys are saying so I joined. I've combed over LS's website but it's not really that informative or up to date. The LS literature I have is one page back to back for each series of tractor. I've never seen any brochure for a tractor with so little on it.

I don't mean to offend anyone on here. I want to like LS and I do. I'm just saying what isn't overwhelming to me with their product in my size I'm looking at. I think the guy posts on here that has the 7010 has been very informative. The 7030 I was quoted, as far as I know, is the same tractor with the engine maybe turned up or turbo/after cooler added...I haven't gotten that far along in the research. Still, he got his with a loader for about two thousand less than I was quoted for just the tractor. That's a little odd to me.

Now in the CUT area I think the LS is great. I saw a McCormick, before I knew it was LS, and REALLY liked it. In that area their standard features really do stand out like the little tool box, platform setup with joystick location, lower links pull out and I REALLY liked the hydraulic outlets. Even if I don't get the larger LS if things go the way I suspect in my tractor dealings I will try and trade my CUT on the LS model. In my cursory inspection of those machines I think they can compete and probably out perform all other models I've seen. As mentioned, I really like that they have Mitsubishi engines and I believe I read somewhere their transmission was from Dyna? Anyway, it was a major transmission manufacturer and I liked that too.

LS may have to overcome the Kubota perception in the larger tractors where Kubota has had a rough time competing and has had some lemons in the past.

Thanks for replying.

 

[I have no memory]

BTW - I like how most on here really do their research and are patient. I'm the same way and can't wait so see LS as some of the farm shows this year.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

BTW - I like how most on here really do their research and are patient. I'm the same way and can't wait so see LS as some of the farm shows this year.

Welcome to the LS forum. That's all us LS guys are really asking for -- a fair shake based on research and logic. Reputation is important, but it's not the be-all and end-all that is thrown around by many LS detractors. It sounds like you have a lot of experience to share and your opinions are very welcome here. Not even us LS fanboys (and girls if any) think that something as complicated as a tractor (regardless of size) is flawless. Again, welcome!

 

[rocknrod]

I am still looking for a tractor with the same standard features that can match the price of an LS.
First - Do that.
Then - Lets talk.
Making unfounded claims that cannot be backed up is easy.

 

[houstonscott]

My research showed that LS is clearly a great buy at the current prices for CUT. Not going to touch them on price right now. But, if money is no object I really think the new MF 1600's are the Benz of CUT. In the Utility though LS has the market, there is nothing close to a U5030 from anyone. They put it right in sweet spot. I got not only 57hp, and 4600lbs of tractor but a full 3.33L of engine. You have to compare that to a JD 5065M or a Kubota M6040, both those tractors touch 40K and when the extra's are added their well over, while I payed 29.5K and got a HD mower and HD box in the deal. No one can touch that...period.

HS

 

[I have no memory]

I am still looking for a tractor with the same standard features that can match the price of an LS.
First - Do that.
Then - Lets talk.

Your funny. I'll reiterate and put this simply. In the CUT I think LS is fantastic. In the utility I think their Very Good. In the 7000 series, that I'm considering the most, their OK. If they put the Mitsubishi engine in the 7000 series I think they'd be farther ahead IMO. The Iveco engine is sleeveless where the Mitsubishi, (if it's like mine), will have dry sleeves. The transmissions are nothing above the competition. There have been tractors with synchronized mechanical shuttles standard built for 20 years. Their hydraulic shuttle is nice and I think it has a few features, (like not shifting above 7 mph), that is probably above the competition.

Making unfounded claims that cannot be backed up is easy. The left does it all the time.

Couldn't agree more.

I like you rocknrod. I've read your posts before I signed on here and I like your passion. You feel deeply about things and that probably gets you misunderstood and maybe in trouble but I'm that way too.

 

[rocknrod]

Thats cool - So do I :laughing:
ya think?

 

[I have no memory]

Houston.
I have an Iseki/AGCO/MF CUT now. And while it's a very nice tractor and we love it from a purely first glance look at LS CUT's I'd take them over it hands down.

 

[Jimjammer4]

Welcome to the LS forum. That's all us LS guys are really asking for -- a fair shake based on research and logic. Reputation is important, but it's not the be-all and end-all that is thrown around by many LS detractors. It sounds like you have a lot of experience to share and your opinions are very welcome here. Not even us LS fanboys (and girls if any) think that something as complicated as a tractor (regardless of size) is flawless. Again, welcome!

I agree with Little Blue... research and logic are the threads that hold these discussions together. It also seems apparent to me that there are two types of tractor buyers on these forums. The first are the casual tractor users such as myself who have a small amount of acreage to maintain and do not make a living in farming. Then, we have professional farmers who are interested in a totally different class of tractors to use in their livelihoods. If we maintain respect for each other and our personal experiences and opinions, we will all be the richer for it. That's what I enjoy about this forum... We all have something of value to contribute whether everyone agrees or not.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think that LS in the 70xx series is targeting row crop farmers and not so much FEL users with their transmissions. My 7010 is straight gear which is what I wanted with 20F/20R manual shift with 4 syncronized gears in 3 ranges with creeper. I have no idea what you would need the creeper gears for, but they are there. I will have to look into the sleeve/sleeveless design with the Iveco engines. Some folks claim that they are very good engines. I have no experience with them other than with my present tractor. My experience is that it is very good on fuel efficiency and plenty of power, as for durability, we will have to see.
The dealer that asked if you wanted AC must have been really screwed up, as far as I know, all cab tractors sold in my neck of the woods have heat and air standard and many come standard with a stereo system. I wasnt impressed with the MF 1652 when I actually got on it although I thought the QPS transmission would be great, but didnt like the electro-shift system. I think that is a bell and whistle that will give owners a big repair bill shortly after the warranty goes out. The website info looked very good but the ergonomics were terrible at least for me.
The LS has a couple of switchs that I would love to relocate (4WD and diff lock) which are behind the armrest on the right side and rather difficult to reach at least for me, but other than that I like the layout.
As for price, I got mine for $35,500 out the door with 10% down and 0% interest for 24 months and that was with very little negotiating as I didnt have the time to spend on trying to save $1000 since I was only home for 19 days and needed the tractor immediately. The dealer did accomodate me with next day delivery so I was happy with that. So far the only issue has been a on and off tachometer that sporadically stops working and then starts again which I attribute to a loose wire somewhere but everytime it stops and I think I will call the dealer it starts back working again. I would love to be able to get a tractor like a Rolls Royce car where you can pick your engine manufacturer, exact transmission, etc. but I dont think that will ever happen. We all have to make some choices in our decisions as I havent found any brand that has everything I want in one package in the size I want.

 

[I have no memory]

Gary,
I think I read everyone of your posts on your 7010. I think for $35,500 you did very well. The price I got for the 7030 was $37,900 and that was an old model, sitting on a lot in a different state WITHOUT a loader. As far as I know the 7030 is just a 7010 with a turned up motor which I dont' like anyway. I usually like to buy the model like yours that has the motor derrated a little. The 7030 may have a larger clutch and a little more cooling. It may be intercooled or have a different turbo but essentially they should be the same.

I don't think the Iveco is a bad engine it's just I'd much rather prefer a Mitsubishi. If your looking for separation between companies in this country you'd pick a Mitsubishi engine over an Iveco as NH owns Iveco and a lot of their tractors now have those engines in them.

I think the standard transmission on the 2011 models will be the hydraulic shuttle shift. I'm a row crop farmer and I'm small, (100 acres), so this would be my primary tractor but for most row crop farmers this is on the small side for their loader tractors.

Either way, I think you did well. Two weekends ago I saw a new looking TD95 New Holland with fourr wheel drive, cab and loader with less than 800 hours on it go for $30,000. I didn't look at it closely as I was there looking at three other tractors but I think it's similar to the 70XX series LS. NH has name brand recognition so far but LS shoudl improve. The TD95 was a bigger tractor but sometimes that goes against you. I think it was a 2004 or 2006 model so say it was 2006. So, I would think that in 5 years if you went to sell your tractor you might loose $5,000 maybe $7,000. It may sound bad but that's pretty good. I would guess that NH lost double that if not more.

 

[rocknrod]

I am still looking for a tractor with the same standard features that can match the price of an LS.
First - Do that.
Then - Lets talk.
Making unfounded claims that cannot be backed up is easy.

Any news on the above yet?

 

[I have no memory]

Mentioned in previous posts I believe. Case-Farmall priced in the low to mid 30's and very similar in features. Althougth, I think my price I've gotton for the LS is high by at least $3,000. You can get a tractor from the manufacturer where I've bought from before for $45,000 new right now that will spank the LS in features. (4 speed/4 range powershift with clutchless shifting between ranges, buddy seat, nicer cab, heavier, nice derated engine with wet sleeves, better dealer support). I don't know how specific you want me to be. Remember RnR I'm looking at the 70XX series not the U or CUT models at this point. Realistically I think the 7030C with hydraulic shuttle and loader should be in the the $37,000 to $39,000 to be competitive but right now Tractorhouse has it for $41,500 and the price I got was $46,500!

I want LS to work out so we'll see.

 

[rocknrod]

... I believe. Case-Farmall priced in the low to mid 30's and very similar in features. Althougth, I think my price I've gotton for the LS is high by at least $3,000. You can get a tractor from the manufacturer where I've bought from before for $45,000 new right now that will spank the LS in features. (4 speed/4 range powershift with clutchless shifting between ranges, buddy seat, nicer cab, heavier, nice derated engine with wet sleeves, better dealer support). I don't know how specific you want me to be. Remember RnR I'm looking at the 70XX series not the U or CUT models at this point. Realistically I think the 7030C with hydraulic shuttle and loader should be in the the $37,000 to $39,000 to be competitive but right now Tractorhouse has it for $41,500 and the price I got was $46,500!

I want LS to work out so we'll see.

No specifics.
Just - "I believe..."
Again stop with the Tractorhouse prices. Their not realistic!
Anyone here who has actually gone to various makers dealers and received actual quotes has found, nobody touches LS.
(is your name "really" Art?)

 

[I have no memory]

Nope name isn't Art. Never knew an Art.

What's not realistic about Tractorhouse? It gives you a ballpark. Usually if it's on there it's a good price or you can beat it. My LS tractor price from my local dealer is $5,000 higher than the Tractorhouse price for the same tractor. How do you explain that? I recently sold my tractor on Tractorhouse. It has a good blend of farmer owned and dealer owned tractors on there though it's getting more dealer owned.

The Farmall and other brand price are prices from dealers. The "I believe" is because I don't trust my memory, (hence my moniker), so I try to be humble and also not state it as fact when the fact is "I believe" the salesman said low to mid 30's and my brother in law, who works at the dealer, said $33,500. I'm not really interested in that tractor, as I believe it's made in Czechlesovakia (sp), so I didn't really listen or write down the details when my brother in law had the salesman call me over a month ago.

The other tractor price is a price quoted to me from a guy that was comparing the tractor I recently sold to a new one. From my dealings on those tractors before I believe it to be at least in the ball-park. But, it's coming back to me, as I write this, that I believe the price he quoted was with 300 hours.

Have you priced and compared the 70XX series? I believe you have an R4010? I believe those come with hydrostatic is yours? IMO when you get into that range or tractor you can't beat an LS. Mitsubishi engine with hydrostatic transmission made my a major transmission player is a huge plus to me.

When I look at the Farmall or the LS your looking at cheapened up engines with 20+ year old transmission technology in the mechanical shift models. So that opens it up to all the tractors with the same or better engines with 300-800 hours and 5-15 years old that look new and are in the $25,000-$30,000 range. Would I pay $5,000-$12,000 to get an LS with a 5 year warranty and a hydraulic shuttle, you bet. Would I pay $16,500-$21,000 more nope. I'm actually just looking for a deal like Gary Fowler got.

I'm trying to empathize because I'm an emotional, logical, **** guy with deep convictions which I think you are too. If not I apologize and also will try not to envy you.

I'm also going through a transition where I dropped the brand I've been loyal too since birth and in purchases for the past 7+ years because I don't like the direction the company is going. So I'm searching. Even though LS is a big corp I think they have hope so I'm on here searching for answers too but I think I need to tone it down a bit.

Thank you for the replies.

 

[lontex]

Just ordered a LS 7030C, but I am having doubts about the small cu.in 195 Iveco Engine it is supposed to put out 88hp. it does not have a Turbo, but does have an Aftercooler. I think 88hp is streaching it a little any-body out there have the 88hp engine, does it perform well?. thanks.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Lontex: I think you are mistaken on the TC. All of the 70 series LS tractors have turbo. The 7030 has turbo + intercooler whereas my 7010 just has a turbo. The 7010,7020 & 7030 are all basically the same tractor with very little weight difference attributed to the larger tires I think. If I remember right, the 7030 has 18.4 tires vs 16.9 on the 7010. THEY just tweek the engine up more as the HP climbs from 72-88. I rarely run my engine more than about 1500 RPM when doing loader work as it will spin all the tires at that RPM without even loading the engine. When I use the Bush hog, I use the 750 RPM gear and keep the throttle about 70% of the 540 RPM speed also. It is very fuel efficient that way and has plenty of power with my 7 foot BH.
I like the tractor, but if they would put a power shift transmission on it with mechanical linkage rather than the electric shift like the MF 1652, it would be a great tractor. I love the powershift in my old 1984 model 4220 Yanmar that allows 3 forward with neutral and reverse to be powershifted without the clutch Something similar to that would make the LS a perfect tractor.