Do you like your R4 tires?

[Reg]

I never said that running a tractor on hard surface with 4WD was not to be done. What I said was that you need to make sure the corresponding tires on the front correspond to the rear. If you switch from on tread pattern on front different to the rear you need to make sure those sizes still correspond. That is plain and simple. Often times the sizes from one type of tread to another changes the tire diameter or original size. Example of R4's to R1's are often the case of difference in size/diameter. No machine is designed to handle that mixing and matching. I drive my 4wd tractors on hard surfaces in 4WD without issue and don't think second about it. The OP was talking about one type of tread on the front and a different type of tread on the rear. Once again, plain and simple, if those tire types are the same diameter of the base tire than you are okay. Why don't you put a tire and/or wheel of completely different size on your front or rear and leave the other in place and prove me wrong or have fun changing your tranny and/or gears.

Your posts are inconsistent, as in;
"...with the 4WD your tranny and gears will be toast in no time"
vs your last post.

So, what a dealer told you, simple physics, anecdotal evidence, or do you REALLY KNOW what you are talking about ?

I am quite content to run with a few percent lead.
Thanks anyway, but I do not need to explore the extremes of your suggested ridiculous experiments.
==============================================

If you want a more reasonable "experiment", run straight ahead in 4WD slowly for a short distance and see how easy it is (or isn't) to disengage 4WD.
This should show that there is tension between the front and rear, i.e. a slight lead/lag.
Keep pulling gently on the 4 to 2 WD lever and initiate a turn.
What SHOULD happen is that the lever shifts quite easily from 4 to 2 when the few percent greater travel of the front axle around the curve matches the front axle lead.
According to the exact lead you have you may have to tighten the turn, the point is that at some radius it should match.
If you have to turn to max lock before the tension releases then you have too much lead.
(IMO, since I have never made PRECISE measurements for this, "my experience has shown", etc.)

If it does not release then you may have lag, but another symptom of that is difficulty keeping a straight line in 4WD, i.e. a tendency for the tractor to wander or actually turn if you take your hands off the wheel.

Mayhap this helps ?

=================================================
GENERALLY Cat 1 and Cat 2 tractors offered with alternate tire SETS will have rolling circumferences that are fairly close to each other.
The R1s with be on larger diameter rims than R4s, which in turn will be on larger diameter rims than R3s, but the wider and higher profile of the R4 results in a similar rolling circumference - same with Turfs, there isn't THAT MUCH difference in rolling circumference.
Certainly not enough to toast a tranny and/or gears in no time.

I suspect that there are exceptions to this generality, but it is foolish at best to take the pathological case as typical (-:

 

[ejkessler]

Your posts are inconsistent, as in;
"...with the 4WD your tranny and gears will be toast in no time"
vs your last post.

So, what a dealer told you, simple physics, anecdotal evidence, or do you REALLY KNOW what you are talking about ?

I am quite content to run with a few percent lead.
Thanks anyway, but I do not need to explore the extremes of your suggested ridiculous experiments.
==============================================

If you want a more reasonable "experiment", run straight ahead in 4WD slowly for a short distance and see how easy it is (or isn't) to disengage 4WD.
This should show that there is tension between the front and rear, i.e. a slight lead/lag.
Keep pulling gently on the 4 to 2 WD lever and initiate a turn.
What SHOULD happen is that the lever shifts quite easily from 4 to 2 when the few percent greater travel of the front axle around the curve matches the front axle lead.
According to the exact lead you have you may have to tighten the turn, the point is that at some radius it should match.
If you have to turn to max lock before the tension releases then you have too much lead.
(IMO, since I have never made PRECISE measurements for this, "my experience has shown", etc.)

If it does not release then you may have lag, but another symptom of that is difficulty keeping a straight line in 4WD, i.e. a tendency for the tractor to wander or actually turn if you take your hands off the wheel.

Mayhap this helps ?

=================================================
GENERALLY Cat 1 and Cat 2 tractors offered with alternate tire SETS will have rolling circumferences that are fairly close to each other.
The R1s with be on larger diameter rims than R4s, which in turn will be on larger diameter rims than R3s, but the wider and higher profile of the R4 results in a similar rolling circumference - same with Turfs, there isn't THAT MUCH difference in rolling circumference.
Certainly not enough to toast a tranny and/or gears in no time.

I suspect that there are exceptions to this generality, but it is foolish at best to take the pathological case as typical (-:

Try actually reading what I wrote and not what you wanted to turn it into by taking it out of context would help to start. There are enough differences at "times", not all, in rolling circumference in what I state BETWEEN TIRE DESIGNS. You can choose to make a broad sweeping generalization if you want about fragility but checking and making sure that there really aren't any differences costs a lot less than relying on YOUR word that it is all true and safe. May be you can afford to experiment or one can just do a little checking and/or math and not have to worry it. Nothing pathological about that, anecdotal or ridiculous, just common sense. But I have found that Common sense is not so common and you have helped me to validate that.

 

[Reg]

Try actually reading what I wrote and not what you wanted to turn it into by taking it out of context would help to start. There are enough differences at "times", not all, in rolling circumference in what I state BETWEEN TIRE DESIGNS. You can choose to make a broad sweeping generalization if you want about fragility but checking and making sure that there really aren't any differences costs a lot less than relying on YOUR word that it is all true and safe. May be you can afford to experiment or one can just do a little checking and/or math and not have to worry it. Nothing pathological about that, anecdotal or ridiculous, just common sense. But I have found that Common sense is not so common and you have helped me to validate that.

Right,,,
I do check tire size relationships before changing sizes or types, typically at FirestoneAG web site, here is a CUT link;
Firestone Agricultural Tire Division | Compact Tractor Tires
and the general Ag tires link;
http://www.firestoneag.com/agricultural_tires.asp
there are other useful links around the site, e.g. on fluid ballast, capacity of tires by size, how to fill duals to 40%, singles to 75% etc.

By looking up the tractor manufacturer's standard offering one can impute the front/rear ratio, which is typically somewhere around 1:1.6 for CUTs.
If they offer more than one standard tire you can check the ratios of those too, but the R1 is most likely to have the best lead.
{Due to commonality of parts (& integer quantities of teeth on gears) there is a limited number of ratios available.}
From that you can pretty much pick whatever tires you want, although you should AVOID lag and it is probably unwise to pick more than a couple percent above the standard lead.
This has worked out for every tractor I have bought and every tire set I have changed to, as well as a few that I have considered.
Obviously I have not checked EVERY tractor on the market (new or used), but those that I have checked have been consistent.

If you want to know ACCURATELY what your front/rear ratio is you can do that in 2WD on a short section of straight road.
Just mark the tires against the road where you start and have someone drive forwards slowly while you count the tire revolutions.
Get as many as you can on the rear tires and estimate the fraction of the last revolution on the front as best you can.
Do it all again in 4WD and you can figure your current lead/lag.
This is good to know, since if you ALREADY have a lot of lead you wouldn't want to increase it further, OTOH if you have only 1% then a little more would be better.

Don't worry, the trans/gears won't get toasted (-:

 

[ejkessler]

Right,,,
I do check tire size relationships before changing sizes or types, typically at FirestoneAG web site, here is a CUT link;
Firestone Agricultural Tire Division | Compact Tractor Tires
and the general Ag tires link;
Firestone Agricultural Tires
there are other useful links around the site, e.g. on fluid ballast, capacity of tires by size, how to fill duals to 40%, singles to 75% etc.

By looking up the tractor manufacturer's standard offering one can impute the front/rear ratio, which is typically somewhere around 1:1.6 for CUTs.
If they offer more than one standard tire you can check the ratios of those too, but the R1 is most likely to have the best lead.
{Due to commonality of parts (& integer quantities of teeth on gears) there is a limited number of ratios available.}
From that you can pretty much pick whatever tires you want, although you should AVOID lag and it is probably unwise to pick more than a couple percent above the standard lead.
This has worked out for every tractor I have bought and every tire set I have changed to, as well as a few that I have considered.
Obviously I have not checked EVERY tractor on the market (new or used), but those that I have checked have been consistent.

If you want to know ACCURATELY what your front/rear ratio is you can do that in 2WD on a short section of straight road.
Just mark the tires against the road where you start and have someone drive forwards slowly while you count the tire revolutions.
Get as many as you can on the rear tires and estimate the fraction of the last revolution on the front as best you can.
Do it all again in 4WD and you can figure your current lead/lag.
This is good to know, since if you ALREADY have a lot of lead you wouldn't want to increase it further, OTOH if you have only 1% then a little more would be better.

Don't worry, the trans/gears won't get toasted (-:

Everything you just said, in its entirety, I agree with completely. Thanks for the verification. My point to start was to use caution and reading your last post indicates to me your above mentioned approach uses that caution. I would say that overall we are on the same page, just different ways of expressing it.

 

[jdboy4410]

i have had R4's on my last two CUT's.i use my machines for general purpose,mowing,loader type work.if you are going to be doing field work,yea,the R1's are the way to go,but if you are Harry Homeowner who needs general purpose,the R4's are the way to go.if you are going to be doing nothing but mowing,the turf tires are the obvious choice.i have read before that guys like the turf's for snow removal,IMO,i wouldn't try it unless i had chains for sure.i need chains on my R4's for snow,but for everything else i do,they work great.just depends on what you are going to do the most with it.the R4's are a compromise tire.best of both worlds i think,JMO.i have plowed with them and don't have a problem.i like the fact they have a heavier sidewall because i am into alot of rocks and rough stuff,my ground is loaded with shale.it was just the right choice for me.at 300 hours,they still look great outside of some slicing on the tread from spinning because i don't have chains to use in the snow ,yet.on my hill,i don't think the R1's would do any better in the snow,steep grade,off camber,gets scary at times ,,,,,,,,

 

[moretzb]

I like my R4s alot. I mostly mow wth my Massey 1533. Some ground work and snow plowing. In the snow I added cahins to he front wheels to be able to scrape up hill. Works great.

 

[jeepfreak1972]

I have a new L3800 HST Kubota with FEL and R-1 tires. Rears are loaded with Rim Guard. My previous tractor was a Kubota B3200 with FEL and loaded R-1's. All the tractors I have owned before these 2 had R-4's. I love the traction advantage that the R-1's provide over the R-4's for my use. The yard damage is more with R-1's if I need to get on it but that is a trade off I can live with. I do however wish I could get R-1 tires in the same exact size as the optional R-4's so I could have the killer traction of the R-1's and the superior floatation of the R-4's. That would be my perfect tire.

 

[rScotty]

I'm wanting R1, agri, tires. However the dealer only has R4, industrial, tires on the tractor I want. He is going to try and find a set of agri tires to swap out with before I show up Saturday. In the event he can't I have to decide what to do. How do you like your R4 tires? Ever wish you had R1's?

I've had a series of compact tractors and have tried R1, R4 and turfs on most of them. It is critical to match the rolling circumference carefully for 4WD. The tire you choose depends on your own soil and what you want to do with it. Ag tires give the best traction in soft or muddy soil but leave a footprint deep in the soil and anytime when turning. R4 and Turf type tires do offer improved side hill stability - and depending on the tire they can also lower the center of gravity. So that might make a difference to you.
My land is rocky overlain with disintegrated granite. The soil is thin and grass is delicate. R1 isn't any advantage here, in fact it has less traction than other profiles. R4 is a decent compromise and durable, and does has enough bite to work in snow without chains....but the stiff sidewalls and sharp edge to the tire tread still tear up the soil a bit when turning.
rScotty

 

[Perplexed]

I have R4's on my 2100-lb CCY, and so far I've used it with a 700-lb 6' finish mower to mow a fairly flat piece of property overlain with silt loam soil and Bermuda turf. I removed the FEL for mowing, and I haven't seen any damage to the grass after several mowing sessions. However, I've noticed the front tires do cause divots when I turn the wheel while stationary or moving at very low speed, but that doesn't happen if I turn the wheel while under way. Traction is very good, though the rear tires do sometimes break loose if I try mowing at a crawl while on a slight incline. I don't have weighted tires (to minimize turf damage) so engaging 4WD at such times cures the traction issue. The R4's also performed well during what little FEL work I've done so far, but it remains to be seen how they perform when I plow snow off my 150-yard paved driveway this winter.

 

[HEC]

I also have had both and chose r4 's with my current tractor as we have lots of briar bushes in my neck of the woods and they don't penetrate through the r4's nearly as easily due to the tougher rubber. I pull a 3 bottom plow with the kubota 5700 4wd with no problem and have no issues in the snow either. My neighbor will get a flat once in awhile with his r1's due to the briars. I have yet to get a flat with these r4's and very happy with them. I use the tractor for garden work, getting wood and mowing fields.

 

[SCDolphin]

I think R1 with a 2 wheel drive ag only tractor but c 4wd R4. I plow, disc, fel c my R4's. I would buy chains if I used mine in a lot of snow and in slick slimy mud. Fortunately I have mostly loam type soil, so I would pick R4's again.
Good Luck

 

[showcattle]

I hate the R-4's.

 

[Perplexed]

I hate the R-4's.

Care to share why you don't like them?

 

[catfishsteved]

I dislike the R-4 tires. These wide tires flatten down the grasses while mowing with a 6 ft rotary cutter and then after a day or two you have a line of grass that has popped back up. My former tractor had ag tires and I had no grass pop-up problem. I have had the r-4's for about five years now and every mowing reminds me of how much I wish I had the ag-tires.

 

[bill333]

I have the R4's on a Kubota 3540 with weights (no Rimguard dealer around! but that's another story).
I have to agree with the other posters that the decision on what tire to get is very dependent on where you live and what you are doing with it. If you look at some of the posts of people who do/don't like their particular tires, it is often due to a mismatch in needs/tire design.

I use my tractor 1/3 bushhogging fields, 1/3 snow plowing, and 1/3 FEL and other work. The R4's are fine for the field work and the FEL and grapple work, even in the woods. The big issue is snow: if you have relatively light/dry snow, on flat ground, they are just fine. However, if the snow is frozen at all, especially near the base, and you have any hills at all -- even very small ones -- the R4's tend to spin and slide. I've been stuck many times on the smallest hill because of this.
If you have a lot of plowing to do in these kind of conditions, I would recommend chains. I don't have them yet but swear each year I'm going to get them, they just seem to be such a hassle to put on.
Lawns: we have a 'yard' not a manicured lawn, and the soil is very thin. You have to be very careful with the R4's, especially in 4WD. I wait until the ground is very dry before running the R4's over it, and turn very carefully. At least with our lawn conditions, there is no way that I could mow with them. However, it the horse pasture it is not a problem since a few ruts there are not an issue.

My neighbor has turf tires on the same tractor. He uses it mostly to mow and likes them. For snow, he can basically just plow light snow and not on hills.

 

[rScotty]

..... I would recommend chains. I don't have them yet but swear each year I'm going to get them, they just seem to be such a hassle to put on.

I have light weight chains for the front tires that I use on the R4s in icy snow. They are modified automobile chains. Easy to put on if your FEL will lift the front end. Of course the front axle drive system is not as rugged as the rear, so I am judicious about applying too much power when the fronts have the chains on...particualrly with a load. But for snow it's fine.
rScotty

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Did a bit of checking. R4s are generally going to cost you $100 to $200 more than R1 AGs on a CUT. And a set of new chains for R4s are going to run about $300 to $350 a pair for 43x16-20 rear tires.

While plain R4s don't get the traction AGs do, the R4s are much stronger, durable tires. So you're much less likely to have a bottle, branch or rock punch through and wreck your tire; although a piece of rebar make kill any kind of tire you have.

So if you occasionally want or need AG-type traction while having the strength and somewhat lower turf-tearability (is that even a word?) of R4s; a set of R4s and chains are going to be about $500 more than a single pair of R1 AGs.

 

[jmatarese]

love my r4 tires but i believe if they were loaded they would do less spining and move driving (i've never had ag or terf tires so i have nothing to compare them to )

 

[DNC]

I had same issue with dealer. I wanted R-1 but dealer couldn't locate any locally. I went ahead and bought with R-4. Now I'm glad because they perform great and will dig up soil if not careful.

 

[jeffva]

I've got a ford 45hp and a kioti55hp... The dk55 has r4s and is okay 90% of the time, then with 4wd... I can manage in the VA clay. BUT last winters snow about killed me! I was plowing some neighbors roads and let me tell you ... it was a chore... normally I can push snow uphill in 4wd with my loader, but there was just too much wet snow!

R1s are in my future... and maybe chains!