Diesel Standby Generators

[Johno Geo]

Never stops amazing me how much experience you guys bring to every topic!!
I am a Mech Engineer by education a rehab guy a construction professional, but you guys amaze me. There is so much experience and knowledge out there!!
Great forum...
TBN has helped me so far with: Out Bldg Insulation opinions,
Drainage, equip accessories... repairs, etc...
The only thing I think is a little lacking is that so many are Pro Kobota..
I looked at Kubota and in compact and Utility, in my opinion, they were lacking, but competitive....
Just my opinion guys....My machines have been perfect for 20 years..
If they weren't I would be looking elseware
Keep up the good work guys!

 

[JB4310]

The efficency on the Isuzu looks to be pretty good. You start running one of these for 48 or 60 hours it makes a big difference.:thumbsup:

I hear ya, but there may be a typo in the specs on the 21 KW isuzu, it shows it at 32 HP that would only support ~16 KW you would need close to 40HP for 20 KW. (2 HP per KW) if it is a typo on the HP, hope it's not on the GPH

Also says it's aluminum block with cast sleeves?

Doesn't say how the Kubota is built, but the 14.5KW Sparrow wants lists it at 28HP and cast block. Only 3 cylinder though.

The only thing I think is a little lacking is that so many are Pro Kobota..
I looked at Kubota and in compact and Utility, in my opinion, they were lacking, but competitive....

I agree, but this was started as a kubota site, I prefer JD but it does have a Kubota engine

JB

 

[sparrowhawk]

Never stops amazing me how much experience you guys bring to every topic!!
I am a Mech Engineer by education a rehab guy a construction professional, but you guys amaze me. There is so much experience and knowledge out there!!
Great forum...
TBN has helped me so far with: Out Bldg Insulation opinions,
Drainage, equip accessories... repairs, etc...
The only thing I think is a little lacking is that so many are Pro Kobota..
I looked at Kubota and in compact and Utility, in my opinion, they were lacking, but competitive....
Just my opinion guys....My machines have been perfect for 20 years..
If they weren't I would be looking elseware
Keep up the good work guys!

I agree with you there. It seems like everyone here brings a different aspect or view to a problem or solution. I am pro green, so I'll balance the rest out a bit I'm EE and CS by schooling.

 

[boggen]

if you are having electrical redone now.

my question, is why go for a whole house gen?

get your main electrical panel installed, then have a sub panel installed right next to it. and run, fridge, deep freeze, heating if electric, lights, and some outlets. just basic stuff, (no need for computers, video games for kids, no need to run everything)

get yourself a auto transfer switch / auto start gen. and hook it up to the sub panel. vs trying to run entire house. it can drop your overall requirements by a good amount for how big you need for a gen.

granted having a liquid coolant / with fan to cool the gen off, is always nice to have. but is it needed?

----------------
wired a 20x24 cabin, to run off a gen. off grid setup. it got old stretching extension cords around. so installed a panel. and went that route.

for the house, i still need to update main electrical panel, but when i do will be switching to a new main panel and a new sub panel. i can live without all the lights on, not operating electric dryer, or dish washing machine, i don't need to have power out to the shed.

i have learned to watch power consumption. granted i could get a bigger generator, but do i really need it? nope. do i really need every outlet in house operational? nope.

 

[sparrowhawk]

if you are having electrical redone now.

my question, is why go for a whole house gen?

get your main electrical panel installed, then have a sub panel installed right next to it. and run, fridge, deep freeze, heating if electric, lights, and some outlets. just basic stuff, (no need for computers, video games for kids, no need to run everything)

get yourself a auto transfer switch / auto start gen. and hook it up to the sub panel. vs trying to run entire house. it can drop your overall requirements by a good amount for how big you need for a gen.

granted having a liquid coolant / with fan to cool the gen off, is always nice to have. but is it needed?

I have done this already: house is broken into two panels for this very purpose and I'll be including an auto transfer switch in the setup. The reason I am going with the size generator I'm looking at is because I am designing my system to run at partial load. I will have ample peak demand generation if necessary and added capacity for the unseen with minimal increase in fuel consumption. I equate this to boating.... why run at 100% all the time? get used to running at 75%, that extra 25% is for when the dark clouds show up on the horizon and you need to get to port at all cost. been there

 

[JB4310]

The reason I am going with the size generator I'm looking at is because I am designing my system to run at partial load. I will have ample peak demand generation if necessary and added capacity for the unseen with minimal increase in fuel consumption. I equate this to boating.... why run at 100% all the time? get used to running at 75%, that extra 25% is for when the dark clouds show up on the horizon and you need to get to port at all cost. been there

I like that way of thinking, but the fuel efficiency goes down a little doing it like that, turning a larger engine that's needed for the load. but still if I were getting one of those premium stand by's I would go with the 14-15 kw minimum.

I have done this already: house is broken into two panels for this very purpose and I'll be including an auto transfer switch in the setup.

I don't agree with the separate panel, I would rather have the ability to run any circuit in the house, not every circuit under full load at once, but any circuit I needed. Not sure what would be needed to have an auto switch for a set up like that, they have the manual switches that switch between utility and generator. It's a big switch and not cheap, but we are not talking about doing it cheaply.

It can be done very simply with a manual interlock, but that is manual.
Generator InterLock Kit - Introduction

I mentioned that my JD tractor has a kubota engine :confused2: obviously incorrect, Yanmar.

JB.

 

[sparrowhawk]

I don't agree with the separate panel, I would rather have the ability to run any circuit in the house, not every circuit under full load at once, but any circuit I needed. Not sure what would be needed to have an auto switch for a set up like that, they have the manual switches that switch between utility and generator. It's a big switch and not cheap, but we are not talking about doing it cheaply.

The longer story is, in completely rewiring my new fixer upper, the person before me (carpenter that got foreclosed on ) added a second 100 amp panel fed off the main 100 amp panel. His plan was to add the new wiring/circuits to the new panel. What I have since done is split wired each room so that if I chose, I could load manage approximately 60 amps worth of circuits. I have also kept with the secondary panel so that I can split the place into two units later by adding a separate electrical entrance that I've already made provisions for.

Sounds complicated, and it is, but I didn't want to redo too much of it. My automatic switch will be laid out in such a way that the whole house will be powered and if needed I can shut off the auxillary panel.

This is not the cheapest installation for sure, but I'm not one to skimp.

I mentioned that my JD tractor has a kubota engine :confused2: obviously incorrect, Yanmar.

JB.

Close enough.... :laughing:

 

[sparrowhawk]

One of the consultants on my team just sent me this and I thought it was relevant...

Maine ingenuity/rednech tech: Icecream truck reused as a generator site and remote data center in a box. They actually have servers and a big huge genset in there for "what if"...

awesome!

 

[Richard]

I went pto for a few years. Heres why I sold it and went standby.

~Have to take implement off the tractor to hook up. We always loose power during thunderstorms and heavy snow, neither is fun to do in either situation.

~Tractor often was not handy to the house. Sometimes in another hayfield or at another location.

~I didn't mind running the tractor all night, did it numerous times for 24 hours or more, but it's overkill.

~During a storm it's nice to have the use of the tractor.

~When I was away, my wife couldn't unhook the implement on the tractor and rehook to the gen.

For some a PTO works great, for me it was a real hassle. The auto start does it's thing no matter where I am, no worries of the house freezing up or if my wife is ok when I'm dealing with a storm for the FD or with my business.

I gotta admit, I have talked to the wife about getting a generator and was specifically interested in a PTO type unit.

You just turned my lights on (no pun intended) with the other side of the story.

Thanks. No pto unit here anymore. Excellent reasons why to not do it (for me).

 

[Richard]

Never stops amazing me how much experience you guys bring to every topic!!
I am a Mech Engineer by education a rehab guy a construction professional, but you guys amaze me. There is so much experience and knowledge out there!!
Great forum...
TBN has helped me so far with: Out Bldg Insulation opinions,
Drainage, equip accessories... repairs, etc...
The only thing I think is a little lacking is that so many are Pro Kobota..
I looked at Kubota and in compact and Utility, in my opinion, they were lacking, but competitive....
Just my opinion guys....My machines have been perfect for 20 years..
If they weren't I would be looking elseware
Keep up the good work guys!

My wife keeps wondering why I keep going back (or asking questions) to "that tractor site"

I keep telling her that there is simply ALL walks of life represented here and you could bring up just about any possible topic and someone here will have had some experience in that area and willing to help/share.

Almost like an Internet Encylopedia on Life!

 

[sparrowhawk]

Almost like an Internet Encylopedia on Life!

Only with way more opinions :laughing:


As for the PTO generator, they definitely have their place I think and the price is right for the power you get. If I had a camp that needed a generator, i would definitely consider one (especially if I had time to set it up when I got there). Setting one up in the rain, snow, wind at 4am on a tuesday: not my cup of tea for sure, and I definitely don't see my wife trying to set it up with her bunny slippers on .

 

[MtHam]

Check out this unit:
Kubota 9,875 Watt Diesel Generator

It's a 3 cylinder, 9kw, remote start, about .4 gal/hour, and quiet.
I bought one 15 years ago, 2nd hand for $1200. It is still going strong. It has been suggested Kubota diesels are good for 30,000 hours. I have a manual transfer switch to the whole house, and yes I do have to be mindful of the total load. The hot tub gets switched off during use, and we avoid using the dryer unless other major heating loads are off. This allows any plug or appliance or pump on the ranch to be used, again as long as the total load capability is not exceeded.
Two 55 gallon drums of fuel on hand allows extended use (250 hours.) It is in a shed about 100' from the main house, and can barely be heard when running. When the utility power goes out, we simply go to the main panel on the side of the house, one switch to start the genset, throw the transfer switch, and life goes on nicely.

 

[boggen]

sounds like ya got things nailed down, researched, and been there done that type of thing.

i am no help in department of what brand or specific model to get in higher ranges like you are wanting. but i would caution, about double checking local suppliers. some times they may sell enough, in order to keep some parts in stock. vs having to order certain things.

when just looking at different options a few years back...

some of the plus on some units were.... they would auto start and run for a little bit every so often (week, month). sometimes it was the panel on the gen, sometimes it was the "auto transfer switch" helping keep battery for starter charged up, while making sure engine would start.

some came with a battery minder / trickle charger, to deal with the battery

some came with "cold start" setups, some required add on package. ((core heaters, inline radiator hose heater pumps, oil pan heaters, etc...))

some generators, didn't have a descent, *duh* forget the term. load control, for when a well pump kicked on, or A/C kicked on. there would be a longer low power (brown out) type of situation. before generator started producing more electricity. some came with better "line conditioners for overall demand, some were better when full load others better at half load type of thing.

many times it didn't matter what manufacture you went with. due to amount of models differing from each manufacture.

double check on how loud they are (decibels) some come with a better insulated / sound proof encasement, while others. were just plain tin, that could start shaking, rattling.

double check to see if they need to be lifted off ground for enough ground clearance to drain oils, and other liquids from it easily. or if there are lower side panels you can remove, to access the drain ports.

some may have a more open bottom, allowing birds, mice, and other critters up into the enclosure, allowing them to build nests inside and around the motor and electronics.

double check to see if you need a screw driver to remove panels. or if there are thumb screws or latches you can undo, to double check things.

if water cooled engine. can you easily get into radiator and use air nozzle off the air compressor to clean it out? (dust, lawn clippings from mowing,etc...)

 

[sparrowhawk]

Thanks Boggen, all really great things and I will definitely look at all of these. The majority of those I didn't think of so thanks for the additional items to consider.

Whichever generator I end up with will most likely be moved to a new house in a few years once I get this one situated and my new house started, so I do have to plan for that as well. These old rundown houses are fun and satisfying but sometimes it's amazing how much work it takes to get them squared away!

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know which I end up with and will take pictures of the final setup.

sounds like ya got things nailed down, researched, and been there done that type of thing.

i am no help in department of what brand or specific model to get in higher ranges like you are wanting. but i would caution, about double checking local suppliers. some times they may sell enough, in order to keep some parts in stock. vs having to order certain things.

when just looking at different options a few years back...

some of the plus on some units were.... they would auto start and run for a little bit every so often (week, month). sometimes it was the panel on the gen, sometimes it was the "auto transfer switch" helping keep battery for starter charged up, while making sure engine would start.

some came with a battery minder / trickle charger, to deal with the battery

some came with "cold start" setups, some required add on package. ((core heaters, inline radiator hose heater pumps, oil pan heaters, etc...))

some generators, didn't have a descent, *duh* forget the term. load control, for when a well pump kicked on, or A/C kicked on. there would be a longer low power (brown out) type of situation. before generator started producing more electricity. some came with better "line conditioners for overall demand, some were better when full load others better at half load type of thing.

many times it didn't matter what manufacture you went with. due to amount of models differing from each manufacture.

double check on how loud they are (decibels) some come with a better insulated / sound proof encasement, while others. were just plain tin, that could start shaking, rattling.

double check to see if they need to be lifted off ground for enough ground clearance to drain oils, and other liquids from it easily. or if there are lower side panels you can remove, to access the drain ports.

some may have a more open bottom, allowing birds, mice, and other critters up into the enclosure, allowing them to build nests inside and around the motor and electronics.

double check to see if you need a screw driver to remove panels. or if there are thumb screws or latches you can undo, to double check things.

if water cooled engine. can you easily get into radiator and use air nozzle off the air compressor to clean it out? (dust, lawn clippings from mowing,etc...)

 

[JohnTso]

I have a Kohler 10 KVA (continuous) powered by the Kubota V1305 4-cylinder engine. It's about 13 years old, but runs like a watch. Both the house and shop wired to it. Uses about .5 gallon per hour at 50 percent load. FWIW - it doesn't even grunt running all the lights in the shop, house furnace, well pump, HD TV and normal home lighting. When the 4 ton A/C kicks in I may hear a blip, but that's about it.

I recommend anyone contemplating a backup generator first invest in a good clamp meter. Monitor your cyclic loads, each leg, and I think you will be surprised how low your continuous load is - IMHO.

Just pick up a used Gillette GEN-PRO 13 KVA LPG unit with 4/10's of an hour on it. Came with 200 amp Cutler-Hammer ATS, Ronk Meter-Rite DPDT bypass and main panel. Couldn't pass it up!

 

[techman]

I too have the 9,875 Kubota powered genset referenced in post 32. I replaced an aircooled Deutz powered gen. Diesel and plastic barrel is the way to go. I did have a steel 50 gal before, but the steel rusted at the fuel level, and plastic for sure will not rust.

They make 15kw and 20kw units as well. Bigger the set, the more fuel you will use. With this unit I can power the house. Just can't run the stove and heat pumps at the same time, but this is not a problem. Also using a manual transfer/interlock on the main panel. Similar to: Generator InterLock Kit but homemade.

paul

 

[JohnTso]

All my appliances are LPG, except for the Advantium oven that I have. I'm going to get this GEN-PRO running and see how well I like. Here diesel is abut twice the price of propane.

The Gen-Pro is power by a Kohler Command 25 hp and it's 3600 RPM. It's even got an oil cooler on it. I'm not to concerned about reliability, because I have the same engine in 20 hp on a garden tractor It's about 15 years old with several hundred hard hours on it and still runs like a top. I think fuel consumption will be a wash cost wise, but the Kubota powered Kohler is bullet proof. Time will tell the story.

 

[atgreene]

I went with these guys: Central Maine Diesel Generators | Diesel Generators | Triple-Fuel Generators | Propane/Natural Gas Generators

They're from Maine and between myself and the FD I have purchased 4 generators from them.

For my house I went with the entire autostart unit, but opted for a small diesel gen. Now I plan to upgrade to a larger gen.

Here's the one I bought. Yanmar Powered 6,500 Watt Diesel Generator

Just an update on my gen. We just came off a 94.1 hour outage due to Irene. The gen ran non-stop the entire time powering everything we needed, including washer, propane dryer, a/c from time to time, well pump, welder, microwave etc... etc.....

The final figures were .23 gallons of fuel per hour.:thumbsup: Yes, less than a quart per hour. The unit now hads a total of 160 hours on it.

As I have stated eleswhere before, the only downfall to this unit is the small fuel tank, so my 50 gallon saddle tank that I plumbed into it made life much easier.

The only issue we had is that every dvd player in the house and camper quit, all 5 of them? No other electronics had any issues, I'm wondering if we had a spike when the power quit? We're buying UPS's for all our electronics just to be safe.

On edit: The propane powered gen that the FD has (we have several actually) of the same size was using 1.5+- gallons of propane per hour with no load (7 kw gen, 150 watt load). We had to call for propane (100 gallon tank) 3 days in and were told it was a $60.00 delivery fee. Another reason I decided not to go with propane. Some people around here were burning almost 50 gallons of propane per day to keep their houses up and running. For 4 days thats close to $700 to keep the lights on.

 

[atgreene]

Another note, once again, a Kubota gen here locally died. Elderly neighbors called me 2 days into the outage and asked me to come look at their Kubota 6800?watt diesel unit. Looks to me like it's lost a valve or rocker? Blowing air out the exhaust when you crank it.

This is the third diesel Kubota gen that I have personally seen quit. The other two were electronic issues with the gen head, but makes me wonder about Kubotas.

 

[JB4310]

Check out this unit:
Kubota 9,875 Watt Diesel Generator

It's a 3 cylinder, 9kw, remote start, about .4 gal/hour, and quiet.

Those 4 pole (1800 rpm) are my dream machines, yeah they are the most expensive initially, but in the long run are the most cost efficient.
I'm not saying the brand specific, but that design.
In a survival situation, that's the one I want.

Also using a manual transfer/interlock on the main panel. Similar to: Generator InterLock Kit but homemade.

paul

Great job with the home made interlock. the interlock option is the way to go, for manual switching anyway, brilliant, simple and safe.

I can't do it on my panel unfortunately, since my panel is considered remote (more than x number of feet from the service entrance) so I only have a main outside at the meter, not in the inside panel

Another note, once again, a Kubota gen here locally died. Elderly neighbors called me 2 days into the outage and asked me to come look at their Kubota 6800?watt diesel unit. Looks to me like it's lost a valve or rocker? Blowing air out the exhaust when you crank it.

This is the third diesel Kubota gen that I have personally seen quit. The other two were electronic issues with the gen head, but makes me wonder about Kubotas.

That looks like a great unit you have, and you give it a good review, but that being a 2 pole (3600 rpm) I don't think it will have the life expectancy of the 3 cylinder units. More portable though.

Not sure what's up with the kubotas you have seen broke down? but in general that design SHOULD be the most reliable and durable.

JB