3720 hydraulic toplink

[greg_g]

My John Deere dealership in the Central Valley, CA told me JD doesn't make a TNT for CUT.

Well, I used the John Deere "build your own" feature of their website quite extensively during the lead up to this 3720 purchase. And TNT was/is an available option (bundle LVB25311). I just didn't think it was worth $1023 plus the required $1294 electric diverter kit.

I found the Gearmore website though, thanks for the lead. I think the implement manufacturer selected by individual JD dealersips might be selected by geography. I'm guessing it has to do with freight costs. JD dealerships around here sell Frontier. Unless that is, Gearmore paints some of their stuff green and re-brands it as Frontier exclusively for John Deere.

//greg//

 

[955Lincoln]

I've very honestly never seen a HTL with a terrain-following cylinder. But perhaps part of my problem is that I've never seen a toplink control valve with a "float" position either. All I've ever used are either the 2-way or 4-way open center types.

//greg//

I'm not sure if any tractor manufacture offers a floating HTL. My main reason for wanting one is being able to easily hook up the top link without having to go back and forth into the cab and fiddle around with the length. Just push or pull until it fits. However, I'm installing from scratch which makes it easily justified. When I purchase my valve it will have a float detent for a little extra money.

A minor secondary reason which might end up being a non-issue. I want to plumb the HTL with no QD's. On a floating implement, like a finish mower or something, the top attachment point will be a convenient holder for the HTL because I see no reason to ever have to take the HTL off of the tractor.

 

[greg_g]

I want to plumb the HTL with no QD's. On a floating implement, like a finish mower or something, the top attachment point will be a convenient holder for the HTL because I see no reason to ever have to take the HTL off of the tractor.

I seldom took mine off either, except when using specific implements that I knew had previously inflicted damage to a conventional toplink. But since you're starting from scratch, I recommend you rethink the QD decision. Consider the day when you buy another implement - one that requires hydraulics. Like a log splitter maybe, or a mower with hydraulic rear wheels, or hydraulic scarifiers on a boxblade.

I had 2 sets of QDs on my last tractor, I ordered my new one with 2 sets as well. That way I can use my splitter and HTL at the same time. If you elect only one pair, then you can temporarily replace the HTL with a conventional toplink, and use the QDs for the implement.

About supporting the HTL when not in use; I hooked a heavy rubber tarp strap between the ROPS. It does a great job of holding up an idle HTL. Not quite sure how I'll do that on this new cab tractor, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

About "floating" the HTL; a floating toplink bracket on the implement itself is one helluva lot cheaper than investing in a control valve with float. I'm thinkin' $35 cheap. Of several designs, they're simple devices that pin between the implement toplink attachment point and the tractor toplink. They pivot in sync with the lower lift arms. Many mowers and cutters come with them as standard equipment. If not, they're obtainable aftermarket (LandPride for example, calls their a "pivoting upper hitch"). If you're a welder or machinist, they're easily fabricated.

//greg//

 

[Gator6x4]

Lookin' for advice. Am shopping for a HTL for my new 3720, and want to make sure I get the right length. Definitely has to be a Cat 1, there's no room on the tractor bracket to pin a Cat 2.

I thought it would be a simple matter of measuring the OE turnbuckle toplink, but I was wrong. Tried hooking up several of my implements with it, and in doing so extended far more than I'm comfortable with. I'm not new to HTLs, I had a Cat 2 on my previous tractor. It was a hair long, so I'm wanting to do it right the first time on this new 3720.

The OE toplink is 18-3/8" closed (eye to eye). Given what I've seen so far, I know I need at least a 20" HTL. So I guess the question is; should I go to 22", or even 24"? I'm hoping for feedback from some JD3000 series owners that have already been where I'm at now.

//greg//

Save your self from future grief and install a top link with check valves. A top or side link without check valves will "Drift" or "Leak Down" when in use. Example you are scraping the driveway and adjust the top link to achieve the desired results. You start down the driveway, the top or side link drifts or leaks down and you have a big problem. You then become upset at the top link or side link and call it junk. Visit this web site scroll down the left side and review TNT (New). Carter and Carter Machinery, Hay Equipment Headquarters Call the people and they will be more than happy to assist you with the size top link or side link you will need. Purchase the right one and you will be happy for many years. Purchase the wrong one and you will have something to decorate the barn or garage with.

 

[955Lincoln]

I seldom took mine off either, except when using specific implements that I knew had previously inflicted damage to a conventional toplink. But since you're starting from scratch, I recommend you rethink the QD decision. Consider the day when you buy another implement - one that requires hydraulics. Like a log splitter maybe, or a mower with hydraulic rear wheels, or hydraulic scarifiers on a boxblade.

I had 2 sets of QDs on my last tractor, I ordered my new one with 2 sets as well. That way I can use my splitter and HTL at the same time. If you elect only one pair, then you can temporarily replace the HTL with a conventional toplink, and use the QDs for the implement.

And as far as supporting the HTL when not in use, I hooked a heavy rubber tarp strap between the ROPS. It does a great job of holding up an idle HTL.

//greg//

Thanks for the rubber strap idea.

I'm not lacking QD's on my tractor, 4 1/2 of them not counting the TNT. I say 1/2 because one is a single acting or hydraulic motor valve. If I add QD's to the TNT that would be 6 1/2 and that seems awful excessive. I have a very tight space problem in the rear of the tractor and I would rather not add the 2 extra QD's. I also want to use the smallest hydraulic line available for the TNT, 1/4" I'm guessing.

 

[greg_g]

Sorry, but I've already gone a few rounds with CCM over this. I stand by my original assesment of those check-valved imports. They might be fine for folks who can't be bothered to fix their leaky hydraulic systems, but they don't interest me in the least. Besides, I want something stouter than a 1-3/16" rod. Right now I'm lookin' at one with a 2-1/2" cylinder with a 1-1/2" rod.

//greg//

 

[955Lincoln]

About "floating" the HTL; a floating toplink bracket on the implement itself is one helluva lot cheaper than investing in a control valve with float. I'm thinkin' $35 cheap. Of several designs, they're simple devices that pin between the implement toplink attachment point and the tractor toplink. They pivot in sync with the lower lift arms. Many mowers and cutters come with them as standard equipment. If not, they're obtainable aftermarket (LandPride for example, calls their a "pivoting upper hitch"). If you're a welder or machinist, they're easily fabricated.

//greg//

Oh, I must of missed this comment. As I said, my main reason is to be able to adjust the HTL from the rear of the tractor. That is worth $35 to me.

 

[jenkinsph]

greg g,

eepete and myself have 4520 cab tractors without fels but have the joystick and valves. Both of us removed the lines and couplers routed to the front fel and replaced these with lines and couplers mounted on the rear of the tractor. We also have the third rear outlet option. This means we use the joystick to control the top and tilt hitch and makes float mode possible. Using the joystick is intuitive as I move the stick in the direction I wan't the implement to move.

I don't have check valves on mine and don't wan't them either for the same reasons you mentioned. eepete does have the check valves and also has flow restrictors to reduce the problems created by having the check valves. I feel it is much easier to feather the cylinders length without the check valves and flow restrictors (jmho).

About the cylinders loosing their position or leaking down, hasn't been a problem for me. The idea that you can set it and forget it referring to either the top link or side link is well humorous to me. Good finish grading with most implements requires realtime adjustments to stay on grade. You have to feel what the tractor is doing and compensate for it. I watch the boxblade almost constantly and adjust its position to follow the contour I need. That doesn't leave enough time for anything to leak down.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Sorry, but I've already gone a few rounds with CCM over this. I stand by my original assesment of those check-valved imports. They might be fine for folks who can't be bothered to fix their leaky hydraulic systems, but they don't interest me in the least. Besides, I want something stouter than a 1-3/16" rod. Right now I'm lookin' at one with a 2-1/2" cylinder with a 1-1/2" rod.

//greg//

Greg, I agree 100% about check valves on the "TnT" cylinders and I have experienced the control valve leakage first hand. When I first installed my Prince valve for my "TnT" on my 3215 all the hydraulics were rock solid. After about 18 months the cylinders were leaking down some, but not bad enough to do anything about it. Well the leakage got worse, bad enough that it did hinder the usage as bad as some people have complained about here on TBN. Took the ends off of the valve, installed new O rings that cost literally pennies and guess what, no more hydraulic leak down. All of this took less than an hour for the repair and I had never done it before. Very easy to do and there just is no reason that I can see to have the check valves. As I have said many times before, I don't believe that any commercial use tractors such as a Case570 or JD210 that have 3pt hitches with "TnT" hydraulics have any check valves on the cylinders, at least I have never seen them.

As far as OEM rear valves with float, both of my Mahindra tractors have that feature. The 3215 is a Mitsubishi made tractor and it has the std 4 position valve. My Mahindra 7520 tractor is made by Mahindra in India. It has 3 OEM rear remotes. All are 4 position valves with detent kick out.

As far as factory "TnT" sets, I think that without actually going to the build it yourself sites there is no way of really telling if they are available or not. So many dealers just don't know or lie to you and sell an aftermarket kit such as Gearmore. And as far as I can tell, Gearmore is nothing more than a middle man selling everyone else's product. They manufacture nothing. Their "TnT" hydraulics are Bareco units.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

greg g,

eepete and myself have 4520 cab tractors without fels but have the joystick and valves. Both of us removed the lines and couplers routed to the front fel and replaced these with lines and couplers mounted on the rear of the tractor. We also have the third rear outlet option. This means we use the joystick to control the top and tilt hitch and makes float mode possible. Using the joystick is intuitive as I move the stick in the direction I wan't the implement to move.

I don't have check valves on mine and don't wan't them either for the same reasons you mentioned. eepete does have the check valves and also has flow restrictors to reduce the problems created by having the check valves. I feel it is much easier to feather the cylinders length without the check valves and flow restrictors (jmho).

About the cylinders loosing their position or leaking down, hasn't been a problem for me. The idea that you can set it and forget it referring to either the top link or side link is well humorous to me. Good finish grading with most implements requires realtime adjustments to stay on grade. You have to feel what the tractor is doing and compensate for it. I watch the boxblade almost constantly and adjust its position to follow the contour I need. That doesn't leave enough time for anything to leak down.

I agree, anyone that is actually grading is usually constantly adjusting the implement anyway. If you have leak down to where it messes with your grading, you have a real big problem that needs to be dealt with. Now maybe I'm just fortunate, but my main road that is a mile long is pretty much set how I want it. I am able to run all of my grading implements the full length with only 3 adjustments where the contour of the road transitions. Point being that in a miles length, the hydraulic does not leak down and have to be compensated for. I will admit that if I was doing 10 miles of road, I would most likely have to make a few adjustments along the way.

 

[jenkinsph]

Brian,
I agree that once you have your drive properly shaped as yours is then you can run up and down it with few or no adjustments.

In my case I am somewhere different each week performing initial grading on a new site. Shaping and forming requires realtime adjustments as you know.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Brian,
I agree that once you have your drive properly shaped as yours is then you can run up and down it with few or no adjustments.

In my case I am somewhere different each week performing initial grading on a new site. Shaping and forming requires realtime adjustments as you know.

Exactly

 

[greg_g]

Ultimately, I think a guy would like to get a toplink that had a range of at least 6 inches, and its range should be centered where the ball end of the top link is extended to directly above the draft arm balls

Ok. Today I raised the lower lift arms to where they were parallel with the tractor's longitudinal line. I ran a line between both lower swivel balls. I then attached a plumb line to the implement end of the 18-3/8" toplink that came with the tractor. I had to extend it all the way out to 24", and that was with the adjustable lower links fully retracted. I'm starting to wonder if the dealer simply didn't give me the wrong toplink (as in WAY too short).

50/50 might work for you, but I'm still thinking 35/65 or thereabouts. I'm not even going to look at 6" strokes. Which means I'm looking for something in the neighborhood of
(a) an 8" cylinder that's 21" closed and 29" open, or
(b) a 10" cylinder that's 20" closed and 30" open.

Now I've got a better starting point, thank you for getting my head straight with the plumb line idea.

//greg//

 

[jenkinsph]

Ok. Today I raised the lower lift arms to where they were parallel with the tractor's longitudinal line. I ran a line between both lower swivel balls. I then attached a plumb line to the implement end of the 18-3/8" toplink that came with the tractor. I had to extend it all the way out to 24", and that was with the adjustable lower links fully retracted. I'm starting to wonder if the dealer simply didn't give me the wrong toplink (as in WAY too short).

50/50 might work for you, but I'm still thinking 35/65 or thereabouts. I'm not even going to look at 6" strokes. Which means I'm looking for something in the neighborhood of
(a) an 8" cylinder that's 21" closed and 29" open, or
(b) a 10" cylinder that's 20" closed and 30" open.

Now I've got a better starting point, thank you for getting my head straight with the plumb line idea.

//greg//

While you are making these measurements the vertical height of the toplink should be measured 18" over the lower links for Cat I. If you were using the IMatch then it should be measured at 15" above the lower links. I would first set the ball ends of the lower arms about 15 to 18" off the ground..

 

[jimgerken]

My Speeco quick hitch is 16.5" center to center from lower pins to upper pin. It is adjustable a few inches vertically, and I think mine is right in the middle of its range, at 16.5".
I can't find an absolute standard spec on this vertical distance. I guess Greg should use HIS own vertical distance, depending on which QH he is using (if any), or his average attachment distance.

Greg, I think you are right, you will want a bit more extension-length than retract-length. Assuming you get just the right overall length to start with of course. Thanks.

 

[jenkinsph]

jimgerkin,

The standard for Cat 1 is 18" vertical center to center.

I should have said that the IMatch side of the quick coupler is 15".