Buying Advice Bobcat Track loader No MSRP/negotiation ?

[reedfarm]

It seems like there is no starting point on the bobcats. There is not even a MSRP. I am looking at a T250,T300,T320, and the new T750. I cannot find any "real" prices on these things. I did see a NY state site that was getting skid steers for 36% off of MSRP, but can't find msrp anywhere ? Anyone else run into this problem ?

 

[bp fick]

It seems like there is no starting point on the bobcats. There is not even a MSRP. I am looking at a T250,T300,T320, and the new T750. I cannot find any "real" prices on these things. I did see a NY state site that was getting skid steers for 36% off of MSRP, but can't find msrp anywhere ? Anyone else run into this problem ?

MSRP is a bit fuzzy with tractors, but most of the major colors have a "build my tractor" type feature on their websites. This is helpful. Armed with that info, one tries hard to press for 10-12% off that website pricing. Having a good relationship with one's local dealer is great, as long as that doesn't mean over paying to the point of the absurd. :thumbsup:

 

[reedfarm]

Not Bobcat ... they have a "build your ...." but once you are finished, it says a local dealer will contact you ! Then it is a "quote" not a cost vs. msrp. I have discovered that the mark up is ~30%. But Bobcat is very secretive. They also have a "area dealer" system where if you live in one zip code, only one dealer is supposed to sell you a new skid steer. If you go "out of area" dealer, they refer you back to the local one. Just seems very tricky and a way to keep prices high with non - compitition.

 

[milkman636]

https://procure.ohio.gov/PriceList/7751500107revpricelist.pdf

Here are some '08 list prices that I ran across recently. 2010 would be a litttle higher, but this could get you in the ballpark.

 

[reedfarm]

Thanks Milkman. It looks like the prices the guy in lynchburg va gave me are right off the list prices. Strange, no dealing ? I did see off a NY state procurement site that they were giving 36% off machines, 15% off additions and 25% off implements. I guess thats to keep profits up ?

 

[Digdeep]

Not Bobcat ... they have a "build your ...." but once you are finished, it says a local dealer will contact you ! Then it is a "quote" not a cost vs. msrp. I have discovered that the mark up is ~30%. But Bobcat is very secretive. They also have a "area dealer" system where if you live in one zip code, only one dealer is supposed to sell you a new skid steer. If you go "out of area" dealer, they refer you back to the local one. Just seems very tricky and a way to keep prices high with non - compitition.

Why do you consider it tricky? I see it as a way to ensure that Bobcat dealers can make a decent living by having local customers buy from local dealers instead of shiopping all over tarnation to save $750 only to go back to the dealer they stiffed expecting him to jump through hoops for them.

The compact equipment industry isn't the auto industry. Back in the heyday there were about 55-60k skids sold and about 30k mini-ex's. 2009 auto sales were at a 27 year low and there were still 11.5 million cars sold.

 

[ace10]

Why do you consider it tricky? I see it as a way to ensure that Bobcat dealers can make a decent living by having local customers buy from local dealers instead of shiopping all over tarnation to save $750 only to go back to the dealer they stiffed expecting him to jump through hoops for them.

The compact equipment industry isn't the auto industry. Back in the heyday there were about 55-60k skids sold and about 30k mini-ex's. 2009 auto sales were at a 27 year low and there were still 11.5 million cars sold.

When has sole-source procurement ever been good for the buyer?

 

[Digdeep]

When has sole-source procurement ever been good for the buyer?

The buyer has a choice of multiple brands if he/she is not satisfied with a dealer's personnel, pricing, or service. This phenomenon is not new to the industry. CAT, Bobcat, Deere, etc. all prescribe to the same practice. It worked this way when I sold Bobcats, and it still works this way. I would not sell a machine to a customer outside of my territory. I wouldn't let my dog out to dump in my neighbor's yard, and expect him to clean it up?

If a dealer's marketshare or sales fall in the toilet because they hold their prices too high, stink at product support, etc., the OEM cancels them.

 

[reedfarm]

You are comparing selling bobcats to picking up dog poop ?
The point I was trying to make is that what other industry/service in the USA do you not even have the slightest idea of the cost before you walk through the door ? Bobcat had 20 different products (S250 T750) that I was interested in, but did not even know which one was in my price range. As a consumer, I educate myself as to price and features before I buy anything. I have no problem with a salesman/dealership making a fair profit, but in most industries, the more a salesman can sell something for, the more he makes. Plus I do have an issue when a company has a product marked up so much they can offer a government RFP at a 37% off msrp, but will not drop a penny for me. That selling policy almost had me looking at other products (too bad the Kubota did not have high flow hydraulics) Oh, I just got the T320 with the options I needed that was $69K for $61K because I looked around, and the guy who sold it for $61K was really, really happy he made a sale.

 

[Digdeep]

You are comparing selling bobcats to picking up dog poop ?
The point I was trying to make is that what other industry/service in the USA do you not even have the slightest idea of the cost before you walk through the door ? Bobcat had 20 different products (S250 T750) that I was interested in, but did not even know which one was in my price range. As a consumer, I educate myself as to price and features before I buy anything. I have no problem with a salesman/dealership making a fair profit, but in most industries, the more a salesman can sell something for, the more he makes. Plus I do have an issue when a company has a product marked up so much they can offer a government RFP at a 37% off msrp, but will not drop a penny for me. That selling policy almost had me looking at other products (too bad the Kubota did not have high flow hydraulics) Oh, I just got the T320 with the options I needed that was $69K for $61K because I looked around, and the guy who sold it for $61K was really, really happy he made a sale.

No, it was simply an analogy comparing the the reasons why dealers don't sell out side of their territories.

I definitely agree a dealer should give you a MSRP. Typically market conditions dictate prices less than MSRP, especially in the down market the US has experienced.

OEMs will usually have a much lower price to states, govt. etc. This is usually a corporate account direct from the factory and the dealer gets a small service fee for the machines sold into his territory.

 

[Pac Coast]

It always makes me laugh when people have this "consumer reports" attitude that that they need to know what a dealer of something paid for a product so they can decide what a fair profit for that dealer is. I agree that finding out an MSRP should be pretty straightforward. What that dealer actually paid for his product isn't really anyone's business. There are costs to do business, do you know what it costs to keep his store open, or what percentage commission he has to pay sales people to keep good sales people that will treat his customers right?

The consumer is king, and will ultimately decide what products are going to sell for. Not just one consumer, but as a group, and it can vary from region to region. What does it matter what dealer cost is on an item if it's a fast moving product and the dealer can sell all that he can get for MSRP? If you don't like the price of something, make an offer that represents what it's worth to you. It's up to the dealer to take it or leave it, because face it, at that point he owns it, not you.

As for the government pricing, maybe if you do hundreds of millions of dollars of business with a manufacturer you will enjoy some volume pricing as well. I own a relatively large company that develops real estate and builds homes. We enjoy quite a bit better pricing on building materials than someone that is building a pole building in their backyard as a weekend project.

All that really matters to a consumer is what a product is actually selling for, and that information if fairly easy to get. If you don't like Bobcat's policy of protecting dealers and their territories don't buy a Bobcat. It's America. They have the right to run their business and they deem fit, and you have the freedom to buy, or not buy, from anyone you choose.

 

[brain55]

It always makes me laugh when people have this "consumer reports" attitude that that they need to know what a dealer of something paid for a product so they can decide what a fair profit for that dealer is. I agree that finding out an MSRP should be pretty straightforward. What that dealer actually paid for his product isn't really anyone's business. There are costs to do business, do you know what it costs to keep his store open, or what percentage commission he has to pay sales people to keep good sales people that will treat his customers right?

The consumer is king, and will ultimately decide what products are going to sell for. Not just one consumer, but as a group, and it can vary from region to region. What does it matter what dealer cost is on an item if it's a fast moving product and the dealer can sell all that he can get for MSRP? If you don't like the price of something, make an offer that represents what it's worth to you. It's up to the dealer to take it or leave it, because face it, at that point he owns it, not you.

As for the government pricing, maybe if you do hundreds of millions of dollars of business with a manufacturer you will enjoy some volume pricing as well. I own a relatively large company that develops real estate and builds homes. We enjoy quite a bit better pricing on building materials than someone that is building a pole building in their backyard as a weekend project.

All that really matters to a consumer is what a product is actually selling for, and that information if fairly easy to get. If you don't like Bobcat's policy of protecting dealers and their territories don't buy a Bobcat. It's America. They have the right to run their business and they deem fit, and you have the freedom to buy, or not buy, from anyone you choose.

I couldn't agree more.

Brian

 

[tony Cecil]

I, as a consumer, who is considering an excavator , would like to know a starting number....As you know there are a fair number of manufacturers , and I need to have a range to start with....I do not want to have a salesman trying to sell, until I am ready.....I agree everyone has a right to do as they want, but for me it makes it much more difficult to even start...without at least a MRSP...Tony

 

[yellowdogsvc]

I, as a consumer, who is considering an excavator , would like to know a starting number....As you know there are a fair number of manufacturers , and I need to have a range to start with....I do not want to have a salesman trying to sell, until I am ready.....I agree everyone has a right to do as they want, but for me it makes it much more difficult to even start...without at least a MRSP...Tony

While it might be nice to have a starting point, building a relationship with a dealer is worth paying a few dollars more. Service after the sale is important if not the most important consideration after quality.

I guess comparing apples to apples is a good thing for the consumer but if I have 10 Bobcat attachments and find a great deal on a John Deere, I might pass it up because I have so much invested in Bobcat brand and all things being equal, the hassle factor of dealing with more than one dealer would be something to consider.

Bobcat shows me the numbers when I go in. I don't think they are hiding anything locally. CAT was transparent, too, a few years back.

 

[tony Cecil]

No question the relationship is very important (to me), but before that takes place I would like to narrow down the different manufacturers.....I don`t know about yourself, but I don`t like to take another persons time if they are not reasonably close, nor get my hopes up only to be disappointed.

I seriously doubt I will even make it to the Bobcat dealer--as I`m not going in so ignorant..a shame as I think they have a good produce....

Further I would definitely deal with the local dealer, even if someone else offered me a very good price somehow.....I wonder what this country is coming to? if it is so hard to just price anything....Tony ps thanks for your response

 

[yellowdogsvc]

Further I would definitely deal with the local dealer, even if someone else offered me a very good price somehow.....I wonder what this country is coming to? if it is so hard to just price anything....Tony ps thanks for your response

I think that the base prices should be listed if there are protected territories (which there seems to be) but there are a lot of options to consider. BUT, at least in my case, I don't have to jump through hoops to get the base price at least with Bobcat. That gives me a starting point. I guess we have to have some faith that the relationships we build with our vendors are honest relationships and that we are getting the best price they can offer at the time. Not sure how we would know unless we spend a lot of time shopping other markets but with protected territories, that can make it difficult (if you are only looking at a brand or two).

 

[Countrygirllana]

But, If there was another Bobcat dealer, you'd be a fool not to check with them. That's when you discover who is willing to deal and who is leaning you over the counter! Do you just walk in the store and say... I'll take 10 of those, without even looking at the price... I think not.... sooner or later the salesman is going to realize how trusting you are of your 'precious relationship' and he's going to start sticking it to you.

 

[tony Cecil]

I, as you, use to have relationships--with my John Deere dealer...He just gave me a good price and I stuck with him....Now the John Deere dealer is gone, and I don`t farm anymore....I kept the property, and now just want to purchase a small excavator...Of course Cat is just a dream as they are expensive...I`m sure bobcat is good, and Kubota, Tacheiu(sp), but I find now a day that it really is a tussle to buy anything...No one gives a competitive price right away---at least to me--and I have to fight for a FAIR number...Man what a pain...and worse is when someone (after the fact) says I could have gotten so and so, ten thousand dollars cheaper Tony

 

[Digdeep]

But, If there was another Bobcat dealer, you'd be a fool not to check with them. That's when you discover who is willing to deal and who is leaning you over the counter! Do you just walk in the store and say... I'll take 10 of those, without even looking at the price... I think not.... sooner or later the salesman is going to realize how trusting you are of your 'precious relationship' and he's going to start sticking it to you.

They will not sell you a "new" machine if you live outside of, or your business is registered outside of their territory.

 

[Dusty1]

I don't ever drop that kind of money without doing my homework on cost first. I'm not made of money!