Pressure Tank on the Blink?

[dmccarty]

Briefly, pressure tanks are not full of water, they are full of air. When the pump kicks on, the tank should be almost out of water. That gives you the longest pump cycle. If your pump is short cycling, just add air. If there is a leak in the bladder, add air anyway. It will just function as a bladderless tank for a few weeks while you shop around and save yourself a few hundred dollars.

That might work. Depends on how bad of a leak you have. I put air in my tank which helped for a few days. Then no amount of air helped. Short cycling that well pump is NOT good. Our power bill spiked when the bladder was finally gone, kaput, dead, out of there, no longer functioning and we had to wait for the new tank to get installed.

In hindsight I could likely have done the work myself. I thought we had soldiered pipe at the well which I was not going to mess with. Turned out we only had galvanized and plastic piping. Now I could fix it because he left me a large length of the plastic pipe.

But the hundred dollars or so I paid for installation was money well spent. I needed some help moving the well house and the plumber had everything he needed. I would have spent hours just figuring out what to buy and more hours fixing.

What the plumber charged me for the new tank was less than I could find it on the Internet...

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

My steel tanks rust out in a few years. Maybe 6 or 8. The last time I replaced it the price of steel had gotten so high that it was cheaper to get the fiberglass with the bladder. No problem so far. It's been 2 or three years I think.

My fiberglass tank lasted 6ish years. You might want to check on the cost of the bladder now.

I asked the plumber about rust and he said it should not be a problem with this tank. Supposed to be lined on the inside to prevent rust if I remember correctly. The plumber has this tank brand in his house so that is good enough for me. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

I guess I will find out in 2016. At least I know more on how to fix it than in 2010. :laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[Larry Caldwell]

First figure out where the problem is before doing anything and what kind of tank you have.
Sometimes the little copper tube that is connected to the bottom of the tank gets plugged up. If a tank with a bladder, empty the tank if you wiggle it a little and hear water the bladder is bad. Inside of switch cover will tell you if it is a 40/60 or 30/50 switch most likely a 40/60. Only test the bladder when the tank is empty. The bladder should be 5 pounds, someone correct if I am wrong less then the lower setting.
It is possible the switch is bad take a picture of wiring before removing and take the cover to the parts place.
Hopefully you do NOT have a filter before the tank.[/QUOTE

The bladder should be inflated to 2 psi below the pump kick-on. If you have a 30/50 pressure switch, the bladder should be inflated to 28 psi.

All the pressure switches I have seen are adjustable. They have a low trip adjustment and a differential adjustment. You can set them to 35/60 if you want. Good pressure switches will have a low pressure cutoff, so if you lose pressure (the well goes dry) it will shut off the pump before the pump burns up.

 

[dmccarty]

How big of a pressure tank is needed?

I have always read/heard that you should size the pressure tank to minimize starting the well pump.

One idea is to get a small tank that will handle a toilet flush, hand washing, etc. When you have a large demand for water like a shower or load of clothes washing then the pump will turn on and stay on until the demand goes away. Sorta.

The other extreme was to get a larger tank that can say handle the washing machine or a long shower.

I wanted to put in a larger pressure tank when the old one went bad but we could not put it in the well house so we stayed with a 5-6 gallon tank.

I really wonder if the smaller is the way to go. Certainly our low flow toilets, sink and shower faucets do not use much water which is goodness. Even our dish washer and clothes washer only uses about 10 gallons. If the tank actually supply 5 gallons then the pump would have to turn on twice to supply the water demand for the washing machines. Not bad but with a large enough tank the pump would not have to turn on at all.

I think our shower head might use 1 GPM so a 10 minute shower the well pump is gong to turn on a couple of times. Though with this new pressure tank I cannot tell when the pump turns on like I could with the old tank.

The flip side is that the best I can tell we use at most 100 gallons a day. So if we turned on the pump 20 times a day does it really matter. I suppose if we only turned on the pump 10 times we would get that much more life out of the pump..... :confused3:

We gots a small tank for better or worse.

Later,
Dan

 

[SandburRanch]

The air doesn't know there are two separate spaces. The bladder is just there to keep the air from dissolving in the water. The air in the tank will be under the same pressure whether it is inside the bladder or outside. The bladder is just a membrane. It doesn't hold any pressure at all unless you drain the system.

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The bladder is just a membrane. It doesn't hold any pressure at all unless you drain the system.[/QUOTE]
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They are shipped new with air pressure in the bladder.

 

[s78wingrider]

If you have points in control box, they may need cleaned

 

[lakngulf]

Before everybody here jumps the gun are you sure you have a bladder-style tank? In these parts there are more standard galvanized tanks than bladder tanks. You may just need to add air.

If you do need a new bladder tank I recommend either the composite Well Mate, Flex-con, or WellXtroll. Stay away from the big box stores, their tanks are not very high quality.

By the light of the moon (not much) and a small flashlight it looks like I have a Con Aire Controlled Air Tank something like CA42-I or J and something like 1097P after that. There is also a sticker for a Myers submersible pump.

Does that help in any way as to type of tank I have and try fix or replace?

Thanks

 

[Larry Caldwell]

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The bladder is just a membrane. It doesn't hold any pressure at all unless you drain the system.
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They are shipped new with air pressure in the bladder.

That pretty much qualifies as draining the system, doesn't it?

 

[RobertBrown]

By the light of the moon (not much) and a small flashlight it looks like I have a Con Aire Controlled Air Tank something like CA42-I or J and something like 1097P after that. There is also a sticker for a Myers submersible pump.

Does that help in any way as to type of tank I have and try fix or replace?

Thanks

it's a bladder tank, find out if it's bad by using what you've learned here and either add air or replace.
The pressure in the air cell should be 4 psi lower than the pump cut-in pressure.
If you're not comfortable with this then call the pump guy all of your neighbors use.

 

[SandburRanch]

That pretty much qualifies as draining the system, doesn't it?

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Try draining a water logged tank through a pin hole in the bladder by adding air. I suggest you take a lunch .

 

[Carl_NH]

Lakngulf

Per what you have said "water coming out the air valve" and all the other feedback it sounds like you have a bad bladder so replace the tank. Usually the tank mfg uses the number to denote gallons of the tank, so yours would be 42 gal TOTAL, but the drawdown is a portion of that - maybe 5-8 gallons.

Before you replace the tank, shut the pump off at the breaker, open the tank drain valve, and you should see a rush of water for a few minutes then nothing. At this point the pressure in the top of the tank should be between 25-35 PSI and have no water present. If low or no pressure (and it should sound hollow) or is still heavy with water then you have a bad bladder. (an empty tank should weigh about 40 lbs)

If you are comfortable with basic plumbing, pipes, clamps and such its not a hard job to replace the tank and switch, but if not then have a plumber take care of it. The hardest part is probably wrestling the old tank with water out of there. Make sure you use brass fittings on all the tank tee parts ( pipe nipples, gauge, stem for switch etc) - not galvanized pipe due to corrosion and electrolysis that occurs with the gavalinized fittings.

As to a new tank suggestion, I have two Well x Trol - one is 18 yr old 16"x47" and the other is 14 yrs old 22"x47" and both are working fine (knock wood). I have them set up in series for a total draw down of 28 gallons on 40-60 pressure switch setting, and the tank precharge at 38PSI (no water in the tank).

The Well x Trol tank alone is about $250 (16x47) and $400+ (22x47) depending on the size you get, the larger size will give you more storage and fewer pump cycles. Then the pressure switch are $18 to 30 range, the more $$ are the low pressure cut out type that protect the pump should your well run dry.

Good luck,
Carl

 

[gerard]

I just replace my well pump and went through this. Direction on the tank say to have the bladder pressure 2 psi LESS than the low pressure cut in PSI. So if you want the pump to come on at 30PSI, there should be 28 psi in the bladder when the power is off and you have a faucet opened until all the water that is going to come out is out. BTW - The larger spring controls the pump cut in pressure. tighten or compress the spring and it raises the cut in pressure. Tighten or compress the smaller spring and you raise the cut OUT pressure. Having the widest range between the two will maximize the amount of water you get out of a cycle before the pump comes on which saves wear and tear on the pump. (Start up is a lot harder on them than constant running).

NOW while you have the opportunity, get the largest sized tank you can fit. Why? Because again, the larger the tank, the more water you can use before the pump cycles on, less wear and tear on the pump over time. The extra cost of the larger tank is likley a LOT less than buying another pump prematurely, especially if you have a 480 foot deep well like mine!

 

[lakngulf]

Thanks to all for help and suggestions. I think I can handle it, especially knowing the help I can find if/when I screw up. This well used to be my main water source until an enterprising guy got a ton of folks to go in and fund the piping for "city" water. That was a good addition.

Now I use this well for washing tractor, cars, mud off my feet, and for general watering. I plan to run a line to my new greenhouse, so now it might get year round use, but never much at a time.

One question Carl: If all other items are working OK, could I just disconnect the old tank, and connect the pipe to the new tank, without fooling with the rest of the line, nipples, T's and such?

 

[Carl_NH]

Lakngulf,

Yes you can do that just dissasemble the bits and pieces that go on the tank called a "Tank Tee" and reassemble, and while you're at it I would replace the pressure switch especially if the contacts are corroded from the constant cycling its doing now.

If you wanted just to hook up ANOTHER new tank in series with this tank it could work, may not be the nicest installation, but it would function.

If this is for occasional use like you state, get a smaller tank and the pump will cycle when you draw water, but its a less $$ option for you.

Carl