GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem

[ray66v]

hey ray i was just trying to make light of the injustice that was made to MF Red by his dealer. We all know the magnetic pan heaters aren't very good.
As for having a backup plan most of us would surely figure out some way to get things going in a pinch.One of my backup plans would be to walk over to the gas tractor and turn the key,and hopefully be in buisness.Larry.

That was a pretty slimy thing his dealer did.

I like winter, but I am not sure I like it enough to live any further north. A?

 

[MF RED in MT]

Thanks to everyone for the great information and support. When I started this thread, I was hoping for some positive information regarding block heaters and that is exactly what I received. The information allowed me to resolve my cold starting problems with a MF block heater. Where I live the average low and high temperatures in January is 10F and 29F with an average annual snowfall of 12 feet. That is why I specificly ordered a frost plug type block heater.
My search for a tractor took about a 2 month email and phone journey, starting with emails to every tractor manufacturer that I found offering a 20hp to 30hp TLB. I am disabled, so I required a hard cab with a heater if I was going to do my own snow removal. I have difficultly looking behind when seated on the tractor, so mostly I looked for front end type of attachments. I contacted this dealer first looking for a Mahindra tractor and he introduced me to the MF tractors that he also carried. Being disabled is why I purchased the additional in the cab snowblower and dozer blade optional controls to make things easier for me. This was the only dealer that returned my emails with quotes and also good suggestions that might help me because of my disablility.
I did not shop one MF dealer with another and also I did not try to get him to reduce his quotes or throw in extras, thats just the way I am (trusting). With all the money that I was investing with this purchase, the cost of the block heater was peanuts. This dealer has done lots of good things for me, but I do not have an answer for switching my block heater to a magnetic oil pan 200W heater without informing me?
I just hope this thread can help someone else with the positive information about a MF block heater. Thanks to all, KC

 

[MF RED in MT]

Hey everyone, just an update about the MF block heater #4269250M91 that is installed on my tractor. I plugged in the block heater for a hour and the temperature in the garage was 16F.
After plugged in for an hour, my MF GC2410 started up quickly and ran like it was already warmed up . I believe this little heater will save the engines life compared to the dealer supplied magentic oil heater that was so hard on the engine when trying to start it in the cold .
Here is some more information about this block heater from tonight at 8:30pm:
Temperature outside of garage is 4F.
Temperature inside the garage where my tractor is parked is 10F.
Temperature of the tractor block is 12F.
I plugged the block heater in for 20 minutes and then the tractor block temperature is 42F.
For the temperature readings, I used a Raytek MiniTemp MT4 Infrared Thermometer purchased from a local auto parts store. It has a claim of +-2% accuracy and I believe them.
Hope this information will help others. KC

 

[henrysMFGC2310TBL]

Having left the tractor out for a couple of weeks I wanted to put it in the garage but of course it would not start. I tried putting a halogen light under the hood with moving blankets over the hood but that did nothing. I took the small space heater out of the trailer and set it in front of the block and placed the blankets over the engine leaving air space around the heater. After about 1-1/2HR of heating and using a booster it started OK.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Having left the tractor out for a couple of weeks I wanted to put it in the garage but of course it would not start. I tried putting a halogen light under the hood with moving blankets over the hood but that did nothing. I took the small space heater out of the trailer and set it in front of the block and placed the blankets over the engine leaving air space around the heater. After about 1-1/2HR of heating and using a booster it started OK.

Sounds like you could use a MF blockheater, :thumbsup:, or else more blankets, :laughing:, just kidding. KC

 

[henrysMFGC2310TBL]

Sounds like you could use a MF blockheater, :thumbsup:, or else more blankets, :laughing:, just kidding. KC

Or better in the back bay of the heated garage where it will stay for the winter.:thumbsup:

 

[Gio]

Block Heater for sure. Not cheap but solved all my issues here in chilly Nebraska

 

[deezs]

Can anyone help me with the installation of a block heater on my MF 1250, I have removed 2 frost plugs on the right side of the engine, but there isn't enough clearance between the block and the water jacket to install the heater, the dealer says that I have the right part but I am at a loss, please help, thanks.

 

[ray66v]

Can anyone help me with the installation of a block heater on my MF 1250, I have removed 2 frost plugs on the right side of the engine, but there isn't enough clearance between the block and the water jacket to install the heater, the dealer says that I have the right part but I am at a loss, please help, thanks.

Deezs, I suggest you start a new thread, with your question.

There will be a better chance of someone who knows the answer, seeing it.

 

[deezs]

OK, thanks for advice, I have started a new thread, I am new to the forum, any help and guidance are greatly appreciated

 

[ray66v]

I do not see the new thread, did you post it in the MF owning and operating forum?

Most GC owners who would read this thread, have no experience with your tractor.

But, there are 1250 series owners in the MF forum.

They are more likely to see your question, in the new thread.

 

[piercedtiger]

First winter with my GC2600 and had trouble starting this morning when it was below 30F. Tried 3 times to start then grabbed a battery charger to keep from killing my battery and the heat gun I'd been thawing a pipe with. Five minutes of 1500W heat gun under the oil pan and it fired right up! So now I'm thinking about a heater too.

Started twice more later in the day after it had time to cool off without issues, and a fraction of the glow plug time (held it for 45-60 seconds each of the 3 previous attempts). I had to get more fuel so I waited until today to make sure I had the winter mix, and threw in some more additive right before topping off the tank. The new fuel was after the first start, and it was about an hour or two before I used it again. Would the new fuel have made a difference in starting? I had put some additive in the summer fuel last month, but would winter mix + additive make a difference?

My charger said the battery was at 43% charge, so it was low. Not sure if that's due to the 3 cranking attempts and plug use, or me using the LED bar as barn lights when locking the animals up each night. Planning on starting it for the heck of it tomorrow morning to see what happens. As much as I hate cold, I want it as cold or colder than last night just to see if it works better. haha

 

[ray66v]

Fuel could make a difference, but I don't believe 30F is cold enough to make a big difference.

For 30F, I would open the throttle handle about an inch forward, and give it about 20 second of glow plug time.

If it doesn't start in 5-7 seconds of cranking, STOP. Cranking further, will only kill the battery.

Reheat the glow plugs, for another 20 seconds, and try cranking again. If that is unsuccessful, go back to the glow plugs, and crank again, This time, advance the throttle while it cranks, and when it starts, make note of the setting the throttle is at. Reduce the throttle to a high idle, as soon as it fires.

Use the throttle setting you noted for the next start at that temp.

Colder temps can require 30 or more seconds of glow plug time. And, will require you to open the throttle further for start up.

I have never had trouble starting my GC. Even in below zero temps, I have never needed more than two attempts to start it.

 

[piercedtiger]

Thanks for the info. I'm probably not opening the throttle up enough. After this morning I started reading a few of the cold starting threads on here, and decided I needed to play with the throttle. I also have one of the silicone oil pan heaters coming in tomorrow that I'll get on, just to make things a little easier to get going and idle warm up.

I guess the more throttle should have been my first thought. I hold the throttle on my string trimmer to start, and the snowblowers and lawn mowers I've used all go through full throttle to get to choke to help start. Don't know why I didn't think the diesel would also need more throttle.

 

[piercedtiger]

Well, that did the trick! Let it run the pump for 2 seconds, 20 GP (or a bit longer as I forgot to take it out of gear), and 4 or 5 seconds of cranking.

Now, I suppose I don't really need the block heater anymore. Perhaps it would be better served on the rear axle to warm the hydro fluid? And just use my heat gun for a few minutes under the oil pan if I really need it?

My concern is repeating last winter where we had a solid week or two of -11F to -15F mornings. My gas truck struggled to start and a couple days of those temps finally made me replace the 8 yr old battery that had worked fine until it wouldn't crank the truck 2 days in a row. My boss's ford diesel died in the parking lot at work 2 or 3 times during the same 2 weeks. We tried jumping it a couple times, even with 2 vehicles (one being my truck with a 140A alternator), and finally he ended up chaining a small camping generator to a tow hook so he could run a charger and block heater all day so he could drive home and plug it in! After last winter I dread those temps now.

I'm not going to want to idle the tractor for long in the barn since the animals won't want to go out if it's that cold, and they're the next bay over in our barn. So heater on the axle for an hour or so, heat gun oil pan for a few minutes if needed to start, crawl out of the barn, idle for 5-10 minutes, and clear snow sound like the best plan? Not sure I really want to start up, lift FEL, then crawl out to idle when it's that cold out.

 

[ray66v]

Glad you had success. Yes, the air is denser in the winter, so you need more fuel in the mix. That means, you have to open the throttle some.

Also keep in mind, you need a moderately high idle speed to warm up a diesel engine. Because, they actually cool down on low idle.

A MF block heater is a nice, over priced accessory, ($125). But, I don't have to start mine everyday in the winter. Usually, I only need it once a week, or less. And, as I said, I haven't had any trouble. Now, my barn is finished and insulated enough, that it never gets much below 32F in there, making it fairly easy starting.

I have a 150 watt silicone pad heater on the bottom of the rear axle. When it runs a couple of days, it keeps the whole unit from feeling cold. I would highly recommend that.

I also have a 50 watt pad heater, on the bottom of the oil pan.

Those, coupled with synthetic hydraulic oil, (Amsoil ATH), makes it less scary to shorten the long hydro warm up times in the book.

 

[piercedtiger]

Thanks. Do you have a picture of where you mounted the one on the rear axle? Or can explain where? I haven't crawl under and see what would be a good protected area yet.

Mine seems to idle between 1,000 and 1,500 RPM (so about 1,200?) with the lowest throttle. From what I've read here that would be considered high idle right? Seems like I saw some engines idle around 500 RPM. I tend to bump it up to 1,500 for warm up though. Seems to run a tad smoother at that speed, and I can do most low speed operations like raising the FEL and pulling out of the barn.

 

[ray66v]

There are no tach's on the 1st generation GC's , so I don't have a number. But, it suffices to say, if you have the throttle advanced enough to hear a high idle, you probably have it set at one.

The pad heater is not totally protected from anything. But did fit nicely between the ribs on the case. I don't run the Baja 1000 with mine like some do, so I am not worried about it getting damaged.

 

[ray66v]

One further note. If you have farmers in the area, ask them where they get their fuel.

I buy mine at the local supplier for many of the farmers around here. They put top notch additives in their off road fuel. I never had any issues with fuel in the winter.

Buy a bottle of Power service 911, it may be a good thing to have on hand. It seems to be the only good way to quickly get gelled diesel fuel to flow again.

Then, hope you never need it.

 

[piercedtiger]

Thanks again for the info. I've been getting diesel from whichever gas station I've been passing. Manual says ultra low sulfur diesel, which is what the gas stations sell of course, so I haven't really looked for off road diesel. Wasn't sure how that would affect things. I asked the guy across the street from me, but he seemed to have trouble remembering.... He's 90, so I don't fault him! And he probably bought a few hundred gallons that's lasted him a while since he doesn't use it every day. However, I was thinking about trying to find a bulk supplier were I could buy a drum or maybe 100 gal tank to park next to my barn. I was hoping that would be cheaper with bulk rates, and the 5 gallon can is a pain in the butt. I fill that, come back, fill the tractor, and now I have an empty can. Hard to keep an extra 5 gallons on hand like that, and the nearest station with diesel is about 5 miles away. Makes it a real pain if I'm running low and need to mow or do some other project.

Looks like there's some room toward the back of the case. I do plan on doing work in the woods so I want any protection from branches I can get. Maybe I could silicone a piece of aluminum to it just to keep it from getting torn. hmmmmmm....