Do I need a CDL?

[brokenknee]

Can you show me the example I gave that requires a CDL?

Nope, interstate commerce is the one exception I forgot about. However unless you are in commerce one is not required.

 

[techwrtr2]

Make sure not to exceed your tow capacity of your vehicle. That should also be listed inside your door panel.

You know, I always thought that but when I went looking for it on our 99 Dodge 2500 CTD, I couldn't find it. Maybe I'm blind.

 

[Diamondpilot]

You know, I always thought that but when I went looking for it on our 99 Dodge 2500 CTD, I couldn't find it. Maybe I'm blind.

That is not the case. The only thing listed is the GVWR. gross vehicle wheel rating.... The only way to find out the real tow rating is of any vehicle is weigh it with you in it then subtract that from the GCWR. gross combined wheel rating.

Chris

 

[Duffster]

That is not the case. The only thing listed is the GVWR. gross vehicle wheel rating.... The only way to find out the real tow rating is of any vehicle is weigh it with you in it then subtract that from the GCWR. gross combined wheel rating.

Chris

Wheel?

 

[Duffster]

Nope, interstate commerce is the one exception I forgot about. However unless you are in commerce one is not required.

Interstate commerce is one of many.

 

[techwrtr2]

That is not the case. The only thing listed is the GVWR. gross vehicle wheel rating.... The only way to find out the real tow rating is of any vehicle is weigh it with you in it then subtract that from the GCWR. gross combined wheel rating.

Chris

Thing is, I couldn't find the GCWR either. I did find multiple references online that say it can tow anywhere from 9k to 11k.

 

[Duffster]

Thing is, I couldn't find the GCWR either.

I never knew such a thing existed until I found this site. Still can't find it for my truck not that I really care what it is.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I never knew such a thing existed until I found this site. Still can't find it for my truck not that I really care what it is.

I have owned well over 20 plus vehicles and have never had one that did not have the GVWR clearly stated on the door sticker. Even my little Saturn that I just sold in the spring. It also list the axle rating for each.

Usually this does not equal the GVWR. Example, the rear may be 6,500# and the front may be 5,000# but the max GVWR may be 10,000#

The only place I have ever seen the GCWR listed is in the manual. For example, my F-350 SRW 4x4 has a GCWR of 24,000# and the truck weighs 7,600# with me in it so the max tow capacity is 16,400#. The max GVWR is 11,500# so the max tongue weight/payload is 3,900#

Chris

 

[Don87]

Hopefully the OP hasn't gotten busted yet, but he does need a CDL to pull that particular trailer. It is over 10,000 lbs.

George2615 posted it, but it may have been missed: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/2182305-post27.html

The third pdf file is Pa. law. (chapter 15)

C.--A Class C license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older, except as provided in section 1503 (relating to persons ineligible for licensing; license issuance to minors; junior driver's license), who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle, except those vehicles requiring a Class M qualification, with a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 26,000 pounds or any combination of vehicles, except combination vehicles involving motorcycles, that does not meet the definition of either Class A or Class B of this section.


B.--A Class B license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 10,000 pounds.

Class A.--A Class A license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds

 

[crazyal]

Don. The way i read the PA classes are:

A Combined weight over 26k including trailers weighing in excess of 10k.
B Combined weight over 26k including trailers weighing not more than 10k
C Combined weight of 26k or less

A Class B license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 10,000 pounds.

I think the key here is the word "such" as in refering to the vehicle listed in the class B license section or a vehicle rated for over 26k. Otherwise they would have just said any vehicle towing a vehicle weight rating not more than 10k. If the requirement for anyone pulling a trailer over 10k but gcwr of less than 26k was to have a class B then a lot of people pulling travel trailers passing through the state would also be required.

The NY regs spell it out much clearer. May tow a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less; or may tow a vehicle of more than 10,000 lbs. providing the GCWR is not over 26,000 lbs.

 

[Don87]

Don. The way i read the PA classes are:

A Combined weight over 26k including trailers weighing in excess of 10k.
B Combined weight over 26k including trailers weighing not more than 10k
C Combined weight of 26k or less

A Class B license shall be issued to those persons 18 years of age or older who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of not more than 10,000 pounds.I think the key here is the word "such" as in refering to the vehicle listed in the class B license section or a vehicle rated for over 26k. Otherwise they would have just said any vehicle towing a vehicle weight rating not more than 10k. If the requirement for anyone pulling a trailer over 10k but gcwr of less than 26k was to have a class B then a lot of people pulling travel trailers passing through the state would also be required.

The NY state regs spell it out much clearer. May tow a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less; or may tow a vehicle of more than 10,000 lbs. providing the GCWR is not over 26,000 lbs.

But this is the line that is the 'kicker' in PA. This is why the OP was originally told he needed a CDL. And don't forget to go back to the Class 'C' license and read the wording.
Rest assured...........in PA. a CDL is needed for a trailer that weighs in excess of 10,000 lbs.

The more I read the text, the more positive I am.

And yes, NY State makes it clearer. I wish Pa. would also, but, they are a 'Commonwealth'.....Theres a big difference.

If it were me............I would sell that trailer, and buy another one rated at less than 10,000 lbs. just to be sure I was in compliance. DOT is cracking down hard in Pa.

 

[Storm56]

I stated before in this post. I even checked with the PA state police, and even THEY could NOT provide a definitive answer. If it so confusing that even the people that are in charge of enforcing the law are unsure, then the wording needs to be changed. For now I am going with what is on the back of my license, quote "Single/Comb less than 26,001". As long as the whole rig is under 26,001 and I am not exceeding the ratings of either the tow vehicle or trailer, as far as I am concerned I am good to go. By the way I am not in business or for hire. I simply move my own things when needed. My trailer has a GVW of 13,900 and I pull it with a 3/4 ton HD diesel PU.

 

[captaincrab55]

I stated before in this post. I even checked with the PA state police, and even THEY could NOT provide a definitive answer.

Storm56, It would be best if one could write the PA State Police and MVA, so they answer back in writing... That answer in writing may save the day defending yourself in traffic court, but I doubt if it would help much as a defense in a Liability case..

 

[Duffster]

Hopefully the OP hasn't gotten busted yet, but he does need a CDL to pull that particular trailer. It is over 10,000 lbs.

This has to be the biggest myth on the internet.

PA uses the federal standard and the feds say you don't need a CDL for a trailer over 10k alone.

Question 2: Is a driver of a combination vehicle with a GCWR of less than 26,001 pounds required to obtain a CDL even if the trailer GVWR is more than 10,000 pounds?

Guidance: No, because the GCWR is less than 26,001 pounds.

Interpretation for Part 383.91: Commercial motor vehicle groups. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Try this handy tool.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/cve/cdlmain.htm

And yes I realize it is for TX but they have the same requirements for a CDL.

 

[Duffster]

I even checked with the PA state police, and even THEY Would NOT provide a definitive answer.

Fixed it.

But really this should be a crime in itself. It is not that confusing it just that it is a bunch buffoons enforcing the law.

Every state has an office of the FMCSA. I think most will have better luck contacting them instead of the state police.

 

[tommu56]

Don I just went over this if its non commercial he doesn't need a COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE.


See this post http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/190860-do-i-need-cdl.html#post2183798


I personally have a class B CDL.
I regularly tow a friends trailer that is over the 10,000lbs so I need a PA class A license (non CDL) for that and a Class B CDL for work (no trailer).

I admit I cant get a straight answer from the PA DMV on how to get one that has both endorsements on one license. (over 10,000lbs trailer non commerical, over 26,000 commercial no trailer.

Ane suggestion by them was to get a class A CDL and don't worry about.
In looking in to that it looks like the test vehicle has to be DOT compliant insurance and a host of other things. That a personnel vehichle doesn't need or have.

tom

 

[crazyal]

Around here you would ask the DMV. They have trucks with portable scales and are usually the ones who man weight stations with help from the state police.

 

[Storm56]

Storm56, It would be best if one could write the PA State Police and MVA, so they answer back in writing... That answer in writing may save the day defending yourself in traffic court, but I doubt if it would help much as a defense in a Liability case..

Everyone seems to agree that RV's are exempt from this situation. I see little difference if I am towing my tractor or an RV. If I have not exceeded the GVW of my truck and trailer, and am under the 26,001 that my license states I can drive, in single or combination, I just do not see a liability issue. And I own an insurance agency. I would scream discrimination if such a thing were to occur, why should an RV be exempt? That said, I still believe I am 100% legal, nothing in this thread has convinced me otherwise. Of course big pusher motorhomes are a whole new can of worms!

 

[Duffster]

Don I just went over this if its non commercial he doesn't need a COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE.


See this post http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/190860-do-i-need-cdl.html#post2183798


I personally have a class B CDL.
I regularly tow a friends trailer that is over the 10,000lbs so I need a PA class A license (non CDL) for that and a Class B CDL for work (no trailer).

I admit I cant get a straight answer from the PA DMV on how to get one that has both endorsements on one license. (over 10,000lbs trailer non commerical, over 26,000 commercial no trailer.

Ane suggestion by them was to get a class A CDL and don't worry about.
In looking in to that it looks like the test vehicle has to be DOT compliant insurance and a host of other things. That a personnel vehichle doesn't need or have.

tom

You don't need a class A anything solely because the trailer is over 10k.

 

[tommu56]

Duffster and Storm56
here is the Pennsylvania DMV regulation

What Class of Driver's License Do You Need?

In Pennsylvania, driverç—´ licenses are issued specifically for the class and type of vehicle you operate. Therefore, the class of driverç—´ license you should have depends specifically upon the type of vehicle you operate. Generally speaking, the majority of applicants for a Pennsylvania driverç—´ license will be operators of regular passenger vehicles, pick-up trucks or vans.
Classes of Driver's Licenses

Non-commercial Driver's Licenses

• CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).
• CLASS B (minimum age 18): Required to operate any single vehicle rated in excess of 26,000 pounds. Example: Motor homes rated at 26,001 pounds or more.
• CLASS C (minimum age 16): A Class C driverç—´ license will be issued to persons 16 years of age or older, who have demonstrated their qualifications to operate any vehicles, except those requiring a Class M qualification, and who do not meet the definitions of Class A or Class B. Any firefighter or member of a rescue or emergency squad who is the holder of a Class C driverç—´ license and who has a certificate of authorization from a fire chief or head of the rescue or emergency squad will be authorized to operate any fire or emergency vehicle registered to that fire department, rescue or emergency squad or municipality(emergency use only). The holder of a Class C license is authorized to drive a motor-driven cycle with an automatic transmission and cylinder capacity of 50 CCs or less or a 3-wheeled motorcycle with an enclosed cab.
• CLASS M (minimum age 16): A Class M driverç—´ license will be issued to those persons 16 years of age or older who have demonstrated their ability to operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle. If a person is qualified to operate only a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle, he/she will be issued a Class M driverç—´ license. If you test on a motor-driven cycle, an "8" restriction will appear on your driverç—´ license. This restriction prohibits you from operating a motorcycle. If you test on a 3-wheeled motorcycle, a "9" restriction will appear on your driverç—´ license. This restriction prohibits you from operating a 2-wheeled motorcycle. Pennsylvania Motorcycle Operatorç—´ Manual (PUB 147) or the Mopeds, Motor-Driver Cycles and Motorcycles Fact Sheet located on PennDOTç—´ Driver and Vehicle Services website in the Motorcycle Information Center.

PennDOT Driver and Vehicle Services - Classes of Licenses


Class A license here it is in black and white (or red in this case) Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds)

now a RV

Class B licensee Motor homes rated at 26,001 pounds or more.

tom