New 3203 with loader and hoe

GreatWhitehunter · May 9, 2008

I'm not posting to stir anything up. It's just ridiculous to put on attachments that the manufacture doesn't recommend. Who here feels they have more engineering knowledge than the oem? The 3203 was offered to get a bargain machine in a hydro form. Rather than only offering gear only (790). That's where the 3203 came from, The frame is different just as the fenders and other odds and ends on the machine. A far as a dealer offering the hoe and x,cx on the 3203, that's the guy who wants your money and doesn't care about you after the sale. He's got his and when your broken down he won't be there to support you. Messicks here's a for instance for you. Suppose the tier two l39 rolls in and you come across a customer **** bent on the 2 missing hp. Are you going to suggest bumping up the engine. No your going to point out the obvious. That the 2 hp is not going to be an issue. But if the customer still feels he needs the 39 hp then you'd show him another model with what he fells he needs. This post reminds me of all the towing post where the poster claims he's towing 12k off the bumper of a half ton and it's totally safe and designed to do so. Engineering is about safety reliability and know parameters. It's not gut feelings and it fits so it must be ok. Anyone who doesn't get that is a fool. And post like this just prove it. This is not a rant to meant to be insulting just pointing out common sense.

Matt T.

flyngti · May 9, 2008

MessickFarmEqu said:
I'm more than willing to bet that the lack of backhoe support has more to do with upselling people to the next model than it does the lack of structure. If thats the case, you'd better not use a box blade, weight box, rear blade, or anything else that can torque the back of your tractor.

Surely you're not suggesting that a box blade, weight box or rear blade can torque the back of a tractor as much as a backhoe can?

MessickFarmEqu · May 9, 2008

flyngti said:
Surely you're not suggesting that a box blade, weight box or rear blade can torque the back of a tractor as much as a backhoe can?

Yea I am. If you catch the corner of a box or rear blade, you put insane stress on the rear of the tractor... I'd venture way more than a subframe mounted backhoe. I'd bet we see 10x as many damaged tractors from 3pt implements than we do modern backhoes. The Woods hoe will do just fine, as I said... this is more about positioning a product in the market place than it is about what it really can do. If its true that this machine can't support a backhoe than its one pathetic piece of equipment. I don't think there is another tractor on the market that can't run a hoe.

Superduper · May 9, 2008

MessickFarmEqu said:
Yea I am. If you catch the corner of a box or rear blade, you put insane stress on the rear of the tractor... I'd venture way more than a subframe mounted backhoe. I'd bet we see 10x as many damaged tractors from 3pt implements than we do modern backhoes. The Woods hoe will do just fine, as I said... this is more about positioning a product in the market place than it is about what it really can do. If its true that this machine can't support a backhoe than its one pathetic piece of equipment. I don't think there is another tractor on the market that can't run a hoe.

Well, there you have it. What more can we say. So when your tractor cracks in half, remember to send the not-covered-under-warranty bill to Neil, your non-deere equipment dealer.

jd4310man · May 9, 2008

Again, it all comes down to the strength of of the main frame of this tractor. Before I purchased this setup, I did my own research and looked at my options. I looked over the frame of both the 3X20 series and the 3203, and came to the conclution that both frames were very much alike. I really dont think Deere designed a weak tractor hear, like MessickFarmEqu said, its all a marketing issue! Also Woods put their butt on the line for designing a mount to fit the 3203. If it is such a poor idea to mount up a hoe to the 3203 and if most 3203's equipped with a hoe have major failure to the frame of the tractor because of mounting then im sure it would eventually get back to Woods. Also, the only way to mount a hoe on any tractor is to use a solid subframe mounting, NOT a 3 point hitch mount! If one went with the 3 point setup, then yea I would expect a severe failure becase all the stress would be put on the very rear of the tractor frame.
Both my dealers didnt have any problem with the issue of the tractor not being able to handle this setup! I seriously doubt that they were just looking at making a sale. This is my third tractor from the same dealer and they have done nothing but good to me even after the sale. Both dealers have been in business a long time and I doubt they have a whole lot of dissatisfied customers either.

Superduper · May 9, 2008

Seriously, the two backhoes mount entirely differently. The woods backhoe appears to have a full subframe. The deere hoe mounts using rockshaft assist. The full frame probably should give sufficient strength. But the warranty you get is part of the feature set you receive. Use the hoe responsibly and you'll probably not have a problem. When there is a problem though and Deere voids the warranty, you'll have to look at yourself in the mirror. We all have free choice. As long as we understand that and accept the risk, then there is no problem.

dqdave1 · May 12, 2008

Does your owners manual state that you cannot use a backhoe and if you do the warranty is voided? If it does not state it , then I would put it on. If this unit cannot handle a woods hoe of this size, shame on JD.

jd4310man · May 12, 2008

I did look at the warranty statement and Deere will not cover "any product that has been altered or modified in ways not approved by John Deere, Depriciation or damage caused by normal wear, lack of reasonable and proper maintanance, failure to follow opperating instructions, misuse, lack of proper protection during storage or accident." That is taken directly from the warranty statement. I doubt that adding a backhoe would qualify as "modifing" the tractor. It is simply adding an attachment within the tractors capability. A 7 1/2foot backhoe is not an unreasonable attachment for any compact tractor including the 3203. The BH70X on my 3203 works great!, I already have dug out some stumps for my neighbor and the little hoe worked very good, considering the size and power of this unit. I am very pleased so far.

Whitey · May 12, 2008

Boy I am almost sorry I got this started. This all stems from me trying to find an affordable HST tractor without all the frills and extras that the 3x20 series have. I really like the 3203. I sat on one on Saturday at a dealer that was near where I had a business meeting that day. I asked him the same thing, why Deere did not offer a backhoe. He said price point. But......he felt that Deere was under pressure to release a model backhoe to fit this unit and also be able to upgrade the loader. He really had no comment on the after market backhoe. I left that showroom hopeful of a Deere solution to this tractor by this fall. I will wait and see.

JD 770 / 70 FEL / 7 BH - 425 AWS / 54" MMM / 54" FMP

swampercj · Nov 3, 2010

Not to bring a old post up from the dead

But I gotta ask anyway. How is the 3203? Does it still have the hoe on the back and did it have enough power? Being a 3203 owner, I was told the the limiting factor was the rear end. the rear wouldn't support the extra weight.

RoyJackson · Nov 3, 2010

swampercj said:
Not to bring a old post up from the dead But I gotta ask anyway. How is the 3203? Does it still have the hoe on the back and did it have enough power? Being a 3203 owner, I was told the the limiting factor was the rear end. the rear wouldn't support the extra weight.

You might want to send jd4310man a PM. He hasn't posted on TBN since Dec 2009. Looks like he hasnt been on since June 2010.
Of course, he may have changed his nick to reflecthis new tractor.

Rob-D · Nov 4, 2010

swampercj said:
Not to bring a old post up from the dead But I gotta ask anyway. How is the 3203? Does it still have the hoe on the back and did it have enough power? Being a 3203 owner, I was told the the limiting factor was the rear end. the rear wouldn't support the extra weight.

I agree and Matt also makes some good points. The first thing I saw in the original photos was that the rear axle is 6 lugs and not 8 like the 3x20 series.

Good luck with it but personally I wouldn't run one myself. JD wants to sell implements and if they thought it wouldn't over tax the machine the would have a BH or adapter for it.

Rob

swampercj · Nov 4, 2010

I wasn't planning on running one, right before I bought my tractor my neighbor bought a older little trac hoe so we're good between the both of us. I was curious if the 3203 stood the test of time with the back hoe.

RoyJackson · Nov 4, 2010

Rob-D said:
I agree and Matt also makes some good points. The first thing I saw in the original photos was that the rear axle is 6 lugs and not 8 like the 3x20 series.

Rob

I dunno, Rob...my 4400 has 6 lug wheels and it handled the 48 backhoe. In fact, after reading your post, I went down and counted the wheel bolts.

JD755 · Nov 4, 2010

Not saying anything good or bad about any tractors here, but I have wondered why the 2x20 tractors only have four bolts on the front wheels. Even the smaller 2305 has five bolts.

Rob-D · Nov 4, 2010

RoyJackson said:
I dunno, Rob...my 4400 has 6 lug wheels and it handled the 48 backhoe. In fact, after reading your post, I went down and counted the wheel bolts.

I don't know that answer Roy. As far as I know JD specifically cites the 8 lug wheel in my old brochure as a defining point in robustness and power to the wheels.

Look at the 3PH lift capacity of the 3032e/38e. 1356 lbs, not much more than the 2520.
The 3x20 series is 2200 lbs.

That tells the story, what's the lift capacity of your 4400? I couldn't find the specs on it.
One thing I do know is that the 485 (the second generation of the 48 BH) at 1500 lbs weighs more than the 3032e can lift so the lift system of the 3x20/4x20 with the 485 can't be used on the 3032/3038. I can't see anyway such a large BH could be put on a tractor that light.

At 2175 lbs the 3032 is way to light for the 485 and probably the 375 which comes in around 1000 lbs or a little more. That's almost half the weight of the tractor.
Rob

RoyJackson · Nov 5, 2010

Rob-D said:
I don't know that answer Roy. As far as I know JD specifically cites the 8 lug wheel in my old brochure as a defining point in robustness and power to the wheels.

The 3PH lift capacity of the 4300 and 4400 is 2200lbs although I'm not sure that's relevent. The rear axle weight rating might be a better indicator.

The 47 backhoe was built for the 4200 through 4400 series (as well as the 4210 through 4410). The 48 backhoes were for the 4300/4310 and 4400/4410.
There was also the 46 for the 4110 (I think) and the 7 for the 770/790 (and others).

It wouldn't surprise me if Deere did "downscale" the 3032 (including the hydraulic capacity) in order to sell more 3120s (that didn't work, did it?) and larger 3x20 series machines. That's just an opinion though.

Rob-D · Nov 5, 2010

RoyJackson said:
The 3PH lift capacity of the 4300 and 4400 is 2200lbs although I'm not sure that's relevent. The rear axle weight rating might be a better indicator.

The 47 backhoe was built for the 4200 through 4400 series (as well as the 4210 through 4410). The 48 backhoes were for the 4300/4310 and 4400/4410.
There was also the 46 for the 4110 (I think) and the 7 for the 770/790 (and others).

It wouldn't surprise me if Deere did "downscale" the 3032 (including the hydraulic capacity) in order to sell more 3120s (that didn't work, did it?) and larger 3x20 series machines. That's just an opinion though.

I think it's more than down scaling. Lower hydro power means smaller pumps, less need for a beefier frame, lighter 3PH parts, etc. It's bucks, that's why the 3x20 series with things like a 3 speed ehydro cost more.
Rob

RoyJackson · Nov 5, 2010

Rob-D said:
I think it's more than down scaling. Lower hydro power means smaller pumps, less need for a beefier frame, lighter 3PH parts, etc. It's bucks, that's why the 3x20 series with things like a 3 speed ehydro cost more.
Rob

Could be, Rob...just stated an opinion there...