FEL control valve on YM1900

[Gary Sweat]

I hope this topic has not been covered and I'm wasting every body's time but I'm stuck trying to understand how to plumb in the loader control valve I have on my YM1900 loader that I built. The guys in the hydraulic section have been very helpful in getting me to understand how the valve needs to be plumbed but I have a problem with the tank port and the PB port on the valve. I understand how the PB port works and the need for it to keep the 3pt working. The problems is that I don't have a "return" line anywhere on my tractor that I can find to route the "tank" port on the valve to and it appears I have to have this port hooked up.

It would help a great deal if anyone has a photo of their loader valve hose routing on a similar tractor series so I can see how it is done. I really want to get this loader operational but for now I'm stuck on this problem

Thanks in advance.

 

[normde2001]

Koyker loader install on a Yanmar

 

[Gary Sweat]

Koyker loader install on a Yanmar

Thanks for the link. I wonder if Koyker uses a control valve that can withstand the pressure from the pump on the tank port? This seems like the 3pt would raise the outlet pressure on the port to that of whatever the 3pt is putting on the system. I don't know what the max pressure my valve can take on the outlet port but most everything I read says they don't take much. I'll try to see if I can find a spec sheet on this Bailey valve and see what it says it can take. I don't really know how much it takes for the 3pt to lift a 4' bush hog but I would think it is would be quite a bit.

 

[California]

In that era the American Yanmars came with a diversion block, in series, just before the high pressure line goes into the 3-point cylinder. Fluid is routed out the diversion block to the loader then the loader control's return line comes back as the feed for the 3-point.

 

[Gary Sweat]

In that era the American Yanmars came with a diversion block, in series, just before the high pressure line goes into the 3-point cylinder. Fluid is routed out the diversion block to the loader then the loader control's return line comes back as the feed for the 3-point.

I know zero about hydraulics except for what I have learned in the past few days so I don't fully understand what you are saying. Here are some pics of my hydraulic system on the tractor that I am trying to hook up the valve to. My valve has both a PB and tank port. From what I have learned, I need the PB port to keep the 3pt working and a line from the tank port on the valve to return the cylinder oil to the tank (which on this tractor is the transmission). I just don't know where I can return the tank port to since I don't find any return lines on the tractor. I was wondering if anyone could let me know how I can get the cylinder return oil back to the transmission without it being pressurized by the PB port?

 

[deepNdirt]

I had the same concern back when I decided to install a FEL onto my tractor,
here is the link to my thread, please excuse the confusion, I didn't catch on right away, when this was explained to me either, you might find a couple of Photo's where the dump line comes out of the joystick remote control,
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/153131-front-end-loader-hydraulic-control.html

 

[Gary Sweat]

I had the same concern back when I decided to install a FEL onto my tractor,
here is the link to my thread, please excuse the confusion, I didn't catch on right away, when this was explained to me either, you might find a couple of Photo's where the dump line comes out of the joystick remote control,
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/153131-front-end-loader-hydraulic-control.html

Thanks Deep, once again you have saved me (back when we were discussing the front axles). I guess I am going to have to rig up a line like you did into the tranny fill cap to make this work. I 'm thinking of maybe making an extended tube from the tranny fill tube and routing the tank line into the side of it so I can keep a fill cap on top. Will have to make a modified dipstick due to the added height of the tube. I'll send you a photo after I make it. Thanks again, this will solve my problem as to where the tank line has to go.

 

[Gary Sweat]

The FEL's built, hydraulics installed. Now comes the question on how to bleed the air out since everything is new and I haven't started it up yet. If anyone has installed a completely new system or has bled systems before, please let me know the right way to do this so I don't mess it up right from the start. Thanks.

By the way, IMO, building the loader was a whole lot easier than figuring out all of the fittings and hoses! :confused2:

And thanks again to all those that helped me figure out the valve and hose routing.

 

[winston1]

Been waiting on someone to respond to this. I haven't installed a new system but I do have an opinion. If suction line to pump has not been tampered with the pump should be primed. If the suction line has been opened I would fill the spin on filter with fluid before installing. If pump is primed I believe all the rest will be self bleeding. Low rpms while moving loader controls all directions should take care of air in system. Being careful to monitor fluid level as it will go down some as you fill loader system. Procede at your own risk.

 

[Gary Sweat]

My concern is mainly with the cylinders since the bucket cylinders point down and the arm cylinders are at a slight angle up. I wasn't sure how the air at the low ends will get out or if it can get trapped in the lines and move back and forth. I've read about damage to cylinders if air is trapped in them under a load. I think the valve will self purge to the tank return on its own. I didn't know if the cylinders should be disconnected at the load end and cycled with the fitting a little loose like you do for a brake line or if it even matters. The return line has not been broken from the pump, just the pressure line for the valve to tie into. Any air that got in when the pump line was cut should (I think) pass through the valve to the return if I let it run a little bit before actuating the valve.

 

[Gary Sweat]

Here's the transmission adapter I made for the loader valve return line. I got the idea from the one DeepNDirt made for his. I'm hoping this does not cause any restriction in the loader and bucket drop speeds. Kind of had to compromise between what would fit and what I would like to have made. I would like to have had a 1/2" NPT fitting but it would make the adapter walls really thin. I've decided to replace 5 of the hydraulic hoses with steel tubing so it is back to figuring out fittings again.

 

[Gary Sweat]

Does anyone know if the port with the plug in it on the left side of the 3pt valve can be used as a supply to the FEL valve? I removed the plug and cranked the engine over with the fuel shut off and oil flowed out of the hole. If it can be used to supply the FEL valve I wouldn't have to cut the pump line and could remove the PB sleeve on the FEL valve. The manual shows it but doesn't really say anything about it.

 

[kennyd]

The FEL's built, hydraulics installed. Now comes the question on how to bleed the air out since everything is new and I haven't started it up yet. If anyone has installed a completely new system or has bled systems before, please let me know the right way to do this so I don't mess it up right from the start. Thanks.

By the way, IMO, building the loader was a whole lot easier than figuring out all of the fittings and hoses! :confused2:

And thanks again to all those that helped me figure out the valve and hose routing.

Been waiting on someone to respond to this. I haven't installed a new system but I do have an opinion. If suction line to pump has not been tampered with the pump should be primed. If the suction line has been opened I would fill the spin on filter with fluid before installing. If pump is primed I believe all the rest will be self bleeding. Low rpms while moving loader controls all directions should take care of air in system. Being careful to monitor fluid level as it will go down some as you fill loader system. Procede at your own risk.

No bleeding is needed guy's, the system is self-purging. Just operate the valve in both directions a few times, and hold it in "relief" for a few seconds each way once you get movement. After that be sure to check fluid levels.

 

[kennyd]

Here's the transmission adapter I made for the loader valve return line. I got the idea from the one DeepNDirt made for his. I'm hoping this does not cause any restriction in the loader and bucket drop speeds. Kind of had to compromise between what would fit and what I would like to have made. I would like to have had a 1/2" NPT fitting but it would make the adapter walls really thin. I've decided to replace 5 of the hydraulic hoses with steel tubing so it is back to figuring out fittings again.

Nice:thumbsup:

 

[Gary Sweat]

Nice:thumbsup:

Thanks Kenny. I'm still looking for something to make the longer dip stick with. I can drill a small hole into the cap and thread it but so far I haven't found the right material to make it with. I want to keep it no thicker than about 1/8" if I can so it won't put back pressure on the return oil coming into the tube. If anyone has any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them.

 

[winston1]

Does anyone know if the port with the plug in it on the left side of the 3pt valve can be used as a supply to the FEL valve? I removed the plug and cranked the engine over with the fuel shut off and oil flowed out of the hole. If it can be used to supply the FEL valve I wouldn't have to cut the pump line and could remove the PB sleeve on the FEL valve. The manual shows it but doesn't really say anything about it.

I know all about that plug on a 2002. Your 1900 may or may not be the same. Here's how that outlet works on a 2002. It is called an axillary outlet for use with a single acting cylinder. I have pulled my plug and installed a quick connect which I hook up to a single acting cylinder on a cement mixer. It only works when stop valve is closed allowing flow to go to the axillary outlet. The axillary outlet is then controlled by the 3 point handle. This outlet would not work for a loader. Again, I do not know about the 1900 but I am "guessing" yours is probably the same outlet. I really think cutting into your steel lines is going to be your best choice. Some Yanmars have other axillary outlets on the control valve but I do not see any on your pictures. You can really make a neat installation with the proper tubing fittings and quick disconnects. Then when you get ready to take loader off you simply disconnect hoses from loader and plug one of the hoses back into the tractor hydraulics to complete the circuit. Other hose on loader goes back into loader just to keep trash out until next hookup. I take my loader on and off several times a year. p.s. I could try taking some pictures if it would be of any benifit to you.

 

[Gary Sweat]

I know all about that plug on a 2002. Your 1900 may or may not be the same. Here's how that outlet works on a 2002. It is called an axillary outlet for use with a single acting cylinder. I have pulled my plug and installed a quick connect which I hook up to a single acting cylinder on a cement mixer. It only works when stop valve is closed allowing flow to go to the axillary outlet. The axillary outlet is then controlled by the 3 point handle. This outlet would not work for a loader. Again, I do not know about the 1900 but I am "guessing" yours is probably the same outlet. I really think cutting into your steel lines is going to be your best choice. Some Yanmars have other axillary outlets on the control valve but I do not see any on your pictures. You can really make a neat installation with the proper tubing fittings and quick disconnects. Then when you get ready to take loader off you simply disconnect hoses from loader and plug one of the hoses back into the tractor hydraulics to complete the circuit. Other hose on loader goes back into loader just to keep trash out until next hookup. I take my loader on and off several times a year. p.s. I could try taking some pictures if it would be of any benifit to you.

Thanks for explaining how that plug works. I was not sure if it would work or not. Looks like cutting the line is the only way for this tractor. I have seen photos of the pump line cut and hoses installed. I measured the line and it is .477 diameter. I don't think a standard .500 compression fitting will work. Seems like the tractor line is a bit smaller than a standard half inch. Where did you get your fittings to go on the pump line? This loader is not going to be coming off the tractor as I intend to use it for landscaping work and bush hogging so I am going to install steel lines from the FEL valve to the pump lines permanently.

Right now I have installed temporary lines and hoses to see how it will move and to see what I need for bend radius. This winter I will remove them and put in the right length hoses and lines. I have about drove myself batty trying to route everything.

 

[winston1]

Mine were already on but here is a source. Yanmar Tractor Parts: Compression Fitting

 

[Gary Sweat]

Mine were already on but here is a source. Yanmar Tractor Parts: Compression Fitting

Thanks. I ordered the fittings and several parts for the front end at the same time. Might as well make sure everything on the front end is rebuilt while I'm at it. Hopefully I made the loader small enough to be useful but not so heavy it will cause problems with the tractor. It's a little unconventional but I wanted to keep it small and tight to the tractor. That is what's mostly causing problems getting the lines and hoses routed. The arms are only 2" from the muffler so I couldn't route the lines inside the arms to make it look neater but it should work. Once I get it finished, I'll try to make a video of it working. It's been a fun project but not one I want to repeat.

 

[winston1]

Looking good! I don't think your arms are any closer than my bulldog loader arms. It has tubing with short hoses coming off for joy stick and cylinders. Not near as neat as I have seen on other tractors but it's ok.