Please educate yourself!

[Diamondpilot]

So last night I was out spraying some Round-Up and I had a customer of mine stop by. He wanted to ask me a few questions about his boat and trailer plus wanted to show me his new truck. He got a new GMC 1500 Extended Cab 4x4 Short Bed with the 5.3L and a 6 speed auto. He was telling me he just traded about a month ago for the 2006 GMC he had that was basically the same truck with the exception of the old one being a 4 speed and cloth interior. He also stated he just got back from a trip to Dale Hollow Lake which is in the western part of the Smokey Mountains in Tennessee. He was telling me how much he hated the new 6 speed tranny when pulling his 5,800# boat. He said it really struggled in the hills which caught my attention so I asked him to get out his manual and window sticker.

That's when I discovered his new truck had 3.08 gears. It has a max tow rating of 6,700# Pretty pathetic for a 1/2 ton V8 4x4 truck. The max trailer tow rating range with that gear ratio is from a low of 5,900# to a high of 7,400# with the 5.3L engine depending on cab, bed, and 4x4 or not.

Remember he is complaining with 5,800# and the temps in the high 60's to low 70's and supplies in the bed. He is really upset. He said he feels the truck will be maxed out when it hits 100 in the summer going to the lake where he has a camper on some property. Which brings up another issue. He has a 28' BP travel trailer down there. He says it weighs around 7,000 to 8,000# and knows this truck will just not get it out of there without issues and no way it can pull it back the 6 hours to home. He had no issues with his last truck which was the 06 GMC 5.3L 4x4 4 speed that we both remember having 3.73 gears but can not confirm.

This is not bashing GM. Just want everyone to know what is the trend for trucks. All manufactures are making more and more with high gear ratios to up the MPG claims. After a little research with me he now realizes its not the 6 speed but the gear ratio. Really took the wind out of his sails.

Make sure you know what you are buying and confirm the gear ration and tow ratings before singing on the dotted line!

Here are the specs from GMC.
http://www.gmc.com/sierra/1500/specsCapabilities.jsp

Chris

 

[ecoslik]

Thanks for the analysis. That is exactly the type of information that might help someone else from rushing a purchase that doesn't then function for the work to be performed. It is no fun blowing money, blowing an engine or tranny or anything else, much less blowing a chance to finish something because the tool is not up to the task.

 

[Bama67]

That sucks, at least you can always swap the gears out with some 4.10s.

But to me, it is crazy that someone would buy a brand new pick-up truck and not specify the gear ratio, or atleast see what it is. Oh well, he learned his lesson I reckon.

 

[Renze]

Yes, please educate yourself: dont shift into 6th if it means that the engine will drop to lower rpm than its max. rated torque is at...

If it can pull off in 1st with this gear setup, whats the problem ? if you use only 4 gears like you used to with the old truck, it will tow much better. If he uses 5, it will be the same. if he uses 6 when driving empty, he'll save fuel.

Nothing wrong with the 6 speed, just tow at the same engine rpm as you did with the 4 speed and only use 6th when driving empty... ????
Sure indeed, educate yourself about gear ratios in relation to torque curves, specific engine load and specific fuel consumption, and take it into consideration when driving your new vehicle, instead of just shifting into highest gear just because you used to do that for the last 40 years.

 

[George2615]

If his truck has 3.08 gears it may not even have the tow package. That would have given him a button on the shifter for tow mode which would change his shift points keeping the RPM up. Also the HD oil and trans coolers.
If he does have tow pkg was he using it?
I agree with your last statement to make sure what you are buying.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

This is not bashing GM. Just want everyone to know what is the trend for trucks. All manufactures are making more and more with high gear ratios to up the MPG claims. After a little research with me he now realizes its not the 6 speed but the gear ratio. Really took the wind out of his sails.

Here are the specs from GMC.
GMC | GMC Sierra: Trucks: 1500, 1500HD, 2500HD, 3500, Denali Pickups: Sierra Specifications

Chris

As I read the info provided and staying with the 5.3L there is approx a 3,000# increase in towing capacity with the 3:42 gear compared to the 3:08. The overdrive aspect of the 6 spd just makes the situation even worse wrt towing capability.

Obviously the info is available and published by GM.

If the owner of the new truck wanted a vehicle capable of towing is it reasonable to expect he would have actually done some research, read some data, asked some questions?

No let's blame GM - they sold him a truck designed for max gas mileage - when they knew or should have known he wanted a tow vehicle.

When is it necessary for a buyer have to take some responsibility for his own decisions?

 

[brain55]

I'm sorry, but what do you expect? The first thing I hear on this board or other boards is people wanting 20+ miles to the gallon out of their gasoline powered pick-ups and they want to be able to tow 8000 lbs., and don't want to pay the premium for the diesel or get a 3/4 ton truck. If somebody wants to tow with their truck, buy something capable of doing the job and accept the lower mileage. If you are more concerned about mileage than the ability to do work, buy a Prius and stop the whining. If somebody buys a 1/2 ton truck to tow with, they get what they deserve. 1/2 ton trucks are cars with a bed in my opinion, not made to do real work. You might as well lower it and put big wheels and rubber band tires on it.

Sorry for the rant, just struck one of my pet peeves.

Brian

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

1/2 ton trucks are cars with a bed in my opinion, not made to do real work. You might as well lower it and put big wheels and rubber band tires on it.

Sorry for the rant, just struck one of my pet peeves.

Brian

I suspect "real work" is like beauty - it's often in the eyes of the beholder.

For some of us a 1/2 ton truck is a perfect personal vehicle. I've had cars / vans / station wagons / Suburbans and since 2005 1/2 Ton GM Crews. The heaviest thing I've towed since 1977 was a 12' Zodiac. A 3:08 with 6 spd would probably suit me perfectly. I can put drywall or plywood in the back, take junk to the dump, bring home stuff from HD and with the 4 doors / flat floor in back it's perfect for my two Giant Schnauzers and when necessary will move 5 people. The Autotrac 4x4 is great in the winter.

 

[buck12]

Last year when I was looking to buy an 09 F150 it surprised me the number of 4x4 crew cabs with 3:31 gears and open differentials. It took a while to locate one with 3:55 and limited slip in the color I wanted. The 3:55 provided plenty of capacity for my towing needs. The gears and 6 speed have done well towing the 6,000 lbs or so I tow fairly regulary.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If his truck has 3.08 gears it may not even have the tow package. That would have given him a button on the shifter for tow mode which would change his shift points keeping the RPM up. Also the HD oil and trans coolers.
If he does have tow pkg was he using it?
I agree with your last statement to make sure what you are buying.

It does have the tow package. He also has the built in brake controller. I can not believe a dealer would even order one set up like that.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

As I read the info provided and staying with the 5.3L there is approx a 3,000# increase in towing capacity with the 3:42 gear compared to the 3:08. The overdrive aspect of the 6 spd just makes the situation even worse wrt towing capability.

Obviously the info is available and published by GM.

If the owner of the new truck wanted a vehicle capable of towing is it reasonable to expect he would have actually done some research, read some data, asked some questions?

No let's blame GM - they sold him a truck designed for max gas mileage - when they knew or should have known he wanted a tow vehicle.

When is it necessary for a buyer have to take some responsibility for his own decisions?

I agree fully. He could have just asked me to go look at it and I would have gladly. I live less than 5 miles from the dealer. He could have even brought it by my house while on a test drive.

Yes, I would have tried to steer him away from GM trucks because I do not care for them but that would not have changed his mind. His father worked and retired from GM so he supports them which he should. I realize this but I would have surely suggested he ordered a truck to meet his needs, not be in a hurry and buy what they had on the lot.

Chris

 

[timswi]

It does have the tow package. He also has the built in brake controller. I can not believe a dealer would even order one set up like that.

Chris

Yeah, that should not have a towing package. I really think this has to do with CAFE standards. The OEM's have to get their fleet averages up thanks to the gubment. 2mpg on a half million trucks does help the math. Used to be 3:73's were all over the lots...Not no more.

 

[timswi]

Sorry for the rant, just struck one of my pet peeves.

Brian

Brian, that was a little harsh on those of us who have half ton trucks. You wouldn't believe what I do to my GMC 1500 4x4. It tows and hauls anything I can throw at it. 5.3 with 3:73's and I get 17mpg on average at 80mph on the interstate..Not bad in my opinion. If I behaved myself I could easily get 20 out of it.

I don't have a 3/4 ton because I have to park in city garages from time to time for work and height is an issue here.

I know the point that you were trying to make though.

 

[hawkeye08]

With the 4L80E auto trans,
1st Gear Ratio .... 2.48
2nd Gear Ratio .... 1.48
3rd Gear Ratio .... 1.00
4th Gear Ratio .... .75

With the 6L80E,
Gear ratios:
First: ...... 4.02
Second: ... 2.36
Third: ... ... 1.53
Fourth: ... 1.15
Fifth: ... 0.85
Sixth: ... 0.67

I like my 6speed auto. thanks.

 

[CrashandBurn]

Good thread.......I've seen the ads in the last couple of years about the 1/2 tons that could tow 10,000 lb's and wondered what solo mileage one would have to live with.
I now have a 11 year old diesel that gets 20 to 21 solo, and 12.5 towing a 10'000 lb fifth wheel.
I will need to replace it one of these days

 

[Ryan03]

Make sure you know what you are buying and confirm the gear ration and tow ratings before singing on the dotted line!

Here are the specs from GMC.
GMC | GMC Sierra: Trucks: 1500, 1500HD, 2500HD, 3500, Denali Pickups: Sierra Specifications

Chris

Reminds me of a fellow who was referred to me around a year and a half ago from a close friend. This guy had bought a new at the time 2008 GMC 2500 HD CCSB 2WD, DMax, Allison, LT package, loaded. This truck had almost every option, except for a locking rear diffrential. Once we got our first dusting of snow, he could not get up his driveway which he said was a hill to the street. He was furiouse when he found out his new loaded truck with 1k mi. had an 3.73 open diffrential. Seems he just assumed that because it was a HD diesel it would have a locker in it as well. I sourced a rear axle with a 3.73 locking diff from a salvage 08 HD in nearby Michigan. I charged $300.00 labor plus shop supplies and gear oil to swap the rear axle, the salvage axle set him back $1200 including freight. His hope was to try and Ebay the Open diff axle to try and recoup half of his cost. Moral to the story, READ THE WINDOW STICKER !!!!! It could save you lots of coin down the road.

 

[schmism]

That's when I discovered his new truck had 3.08 gears. It has a max tow rating of 6,700# Pretty pathetic for a 1/2 ton V8 4x4 truck. The max trailer tow rating range with that gear ratio is from a low of 5,900# to a high of 7,400# with the 5.3L engine depending on cab, bed, and 4x4 or not.

This is why i mentioned a few threads ago about how i felt that if you were seriously towing over 6K lbs you really needed to step up to a 3/4 ton.

Its always been my experience that 1/2 trucks seemed to really only be usefull in the gap left between ~4000lbs and 6000lbs towing. (less than 4K towed with a smaller "compact truck" over 6K towed with a 3/4 ton)

I know more recent "half tons" come with "huge" tow ratings but if you ask me they just seem to keep makeing the "half tons" larger while increaseing the tow rateings at the same time. So really what you have as 3/4 ton rebadged as a 1/2 ton.

Shure you can find specific examples of trucks that may not fit into the above statement well, but from my experience there are far more that fit the above than dont.

 

[FlaDon]

All the makers are doing it to get the CAFE numbers up. Large V-8s with 4.10s are becoming dinosaurs. Goes out and pats his 8.1. Needs a new set of sparkplugs at 101K miles though.

 

[puckgrinder85]

There is a lot more ratios than just the final drive ratio's..

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is why i mentioned a few threads ago about how i felt that if you were seriously towing over 6K lbs you really needed to step up to a 3/4 ton.

Its always been my experience that 1/2 trucks seemed to really only be usefull in the gap left between ~4000lbs and 6000lbs towing. (less than 4K towed with a smaller "compact truck" over 6K towed with a 3/4 ton)

I know more recent "half tons" come with "huge" tow ratings but if you ask me they just seem to keep makeing the "half tons" larger while increaseing the tow rateings at the same time. So really what you have as 3/4 ton rebadged as a 1/2 ton.

Shure you can find specific examples of trucks that may not fit into the above statement well, but from my experience there are far more that fit the above than dont.

My experience has been just the opposite. But then again I always ordered the 7 1/2 tons I have owned with what I wanted. I have never had less than 3.73 gears and 2 with 4.10 gears. I also make sure I have 4 wheel drive and either a limited slip rear end or a diff locker.

Chris