Removing dry cylinder liners

[033614]

Hi, starting to refurbish a Ford 4600 FWD. Has anyone had the pleasure of removing dry cylinder liners, (pretty sure these were factory fitted).This beast was seized real bad, a steel block and a 14lb sledge hammer was the only way. I have rigged a puller with a 20 ton jack, so far all I have managed is to bend the 5/8" steel bars on the puller. Have tried Co2 fire extinguisher to shrink the liners with the pressure on. Scratching my head now. I really do not want to pull the engine block out, anyway I can't see that it would help me. Any suggestions anyone?

 

[ModMech]

There are special pullers made for removing dry-fit liners, essentially they use a carefully fitted plate on the bollom of the liner and an upside-down "U" at the top (or "H" puller on risers) to pull the liner out.

ANY angular deviations from straight can cause the liner to bind, which is why it is important to use the correct tooling.

To install, an overnight stay in the freezer, and using the removal plate on top of the liner and striking it "home" is often all that is needed. However, some liners are specifically designed to require the block be decked afterwards. I don't know specifically about this engine.

 

[tglass]

As ModMech said that is the best way to remove and install them although I've used a sharp chisel in the past and very, very carefully cut and broke sections out till the sleeve came out. To install I've always frozen mine overnight and used a tool the parts dealer around my area let me use for free to put the new ones in.

 

[mrmikey]

If you have access to a welder run a couple of small beads inside the liner, same way you'd remove a bearing race.....Mike

 

[033614]

Have turned a well fitting plate for the bottom and using a double "H" frame above with a 20 ton jack between. I see the point of accurate pulling, will turn another plate for the top to centre the pulling bolt. Have used a bead of weld for removing inners from ball races as it expands the inner, will a bead not expand the liner making it tighter? These are dry liners, it's going to be difficult to chisel them out. In the end I suppose I could use an air grinder with a tungsten carbide grinder to slice a groove down each liner, just worried about going too far, would be an expensive mistake.

 

[mrmikey]

will a bead not expand the liner making it tighter?

It will initially but since it can't expand when it's hot it'll be smaller when it cools. Three evenly spaced beads along the length of the liner will do it.....Mike

 

[banjodunn]

G'day Mike i agree with your theory although most dry liners are rather thin walled and it is very easy to burn through and bugger up the parent bore. to the OP check your bore sizes of your new liners as most dry liners require machining to size after fitment thus req the block to be removed and while it is out get the eng shop to press out/in the new liners


Jon

 

[033614]

Have checked the wall thickness of the new liners, they are over 0.1" thick. Should be thick enough to stop me burning through. The new liners are semi-finished and require honing to finished size. Going to try one other thing before I commit to welding, I can get another hydraulic jack under the engine to push the liner out, one pulling and one pushing. I will have to put the JCB bucket on the front of the tractor to stop it just lifting the front up, should give me a couple of extra tons. Then it's the welding route, be prepared for expletives. Bruce

 

[Eagleview]

Ive always welded them out . Pack the bottom of the bore with wet rags to protect the crank and run 4 welds from bottom to top . An electric fan blowing over the top of the cylinder keeps the smoke away so you can see what you are doing . They don't have to be good welds , just keep the amps down and keep the rod moving . Let them cool and lift them out , no jack required .

 

[MBDiagMan]

I assume that these dry liners are the same as ones I've seen in other engines. The dry liners I'm familiar with are always installed in the bore, then topped and bored to size with a boring bar. I have never seen any dry liners that are meant to be simply put in place and used without machining.

If these liners are the same as I describe above, the easiest way to remove them is to weld a bead top to bottom with an arc welder. This will shrink it and it will come right out.

 

[LD1]

I agree with the welding. It works like a charm.

When we rebuilt the 8n motor it had .040 sleeves. So they were really thin. I'd actuall call it more like dragging the rod across the liner as opposed to welding. Just a few seconds to make the full pass across the 6" or so liner

 

[033614]

Looks like I'll get them out then. Just thought, will the new liners be the same outside bore as the factory fitted ones? Is anywhere I could find out what size Ford bored them out to to fit the factory liners? Could be a problem if they were bored out bigger than the replacements. Bruce

 

[Eagleview]

The block will be stock size . The only one I ever had trouble with was one that got cracked when a piston broke . It was welded up and bored back out but they went too far , the liner was a loose fit . They Chromed the outside of the liner , linished it on a lathe and then fitted it to the block .

Also when fitting liners it is best to have them in an Esky of dry ice . Be careful only to handle them with your finger tips on the bottom lip if you can get your hand inside them , or with your finger nails under the top lip if they have one . If you grab them like a WineO handles a bottle , you will get hot spots from your fingers which can grab the block and jamb it halfway .

Some people use a freezer to shrink them but a freezer is never close enough to the engine and they will be expanding by the second while you are getting there .

 

[whodat526]

ford motors post 1965 did not have sleeves they were cast iron bore blocks if it has sleeves they where put in at a machine shop they where not like the ford tractor pre 1965 which had drive sleeves i have cut the sleeves out with a torch but be carefull and dont cut into the block but the right way to get them out is to pull the motor and have them bored out but make sure when u go back together with the motor u have finished sleves or u will have to pull the motor and have them bored do ask how i know so dont do what it did if it has sleeves the smart thing to do is pull the motor out to start with

 

[gavinol]

A dry cylinder liner has a flange at the outer circumference of the upper part of a liner barrel, and also has a grind relief groove formed below the flange at the outer circumferential surface of the liner barrel.

 

[northernguy]

You could run a bead or two around the liner and this will shrink them,but you allways get spatter where you don't want it.If you have a cutting torche ,
run a blue line around the liner in a spirle from bottom to top,and let it cool they will fall right out.I rebuild Cat components every day and havent welded
anything out in a long time,bearing cups,bushings all shink nicely this way and you get no spatter .When I say a blue line I mean hold the flame long enouf and move it around to make a blue line .If any of you out there hasn't tried this methed yet you will never go back to welding,give it a try.

 

[033614]

ford motors post 1965 did not have sleeves they were cast iron bore blocks if it has sleeves they where put in at a machine shop they where not like the ford tractor pre 1965 which had drive sleeves i have cut the sleeves out with a torch but be carefull and dont cut into the block but the right way to get them out is to pull the motor and have them bored out but make sure when u go back together with the motor u have finished sleves or u will have to pull the motor and have them bored do ask how i know so dont do what it did if it has sleeves the smart thing to do is pull the motor out to start with

The 4600 originally had a bore of 4.4", according to the manual some were factory fitted with sleeves because of the porous block problem that Ford had. This brought the bore down to 4.2", which is what I have. I'm not sure if these sleeves were factory fitted or a later addition. I hope Ford (if they are Ford fitted) used standard wall thickness liners and not some extra thick walled ones. The suppliers of the new liners (Agriline) say they are semi-finished and only need honing to finish to take the pistons as supplied.

 

[RickB]

The 4600 originally had a bore of 4.4", according to the manual some were factory fitted with sleeves because of the porous block problem that Ford had. This brought the bore down to 4.2", which is what I have. I'm not sure if these sleeves were factory fitted or a later addition. I hope Ford (if they are Ford fitted) used standard wall thickness liners and not some extra thick walled ones. The suppliers of the new liners (Agriline) say they are semi-finished and only need honing to finish to take the pistons as supplied.

Proper installation of service sleeves in a parent bore block requires the block to be overbored (either in the factory or in the field). The finished product (in the case of a 201 cu. in. engine) will have a bore of 4.4" just like it was meant to have.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Don't run a bead "around it." Run the bead from bottom to top and it will come right out.

 

[whodat526]

semi finished sleeves need to be bored i have been there and tried that