Jeep Tow Vehicle

[foggy1111]

Congrats! Did you get that Quadra-Lift adjustable suspension or Selec-Terrain transfer case?

Obviously, these people don't realize the very stringent testing and regulations these trucks and suv's go through before receiving these ratings. The rated tow capacity of these vehicles is just a fraction of what they can safely tow. There is no doubt in my mind that this Jeep GC can handle 7,200 lbs safely and even in an emergency situation, WHEN PROPERLY SETUP and with all the vehicles systems (brakes, suspension, transmission, etc...) PROPERLY WORKING. Those are the major concerns, the vehicle itself is more than capable.

You Betcha! The "Overland" model comes with the air lift suspension and select terain. I also got the Trail Rated version....which gives me 18" wheels and tires (in lieu of the 20" on the Overland models...better ride to my way of thinking...and able to cushion obstacles better when off-road) and the skid plates, etc. Also all the blind spot detectors and even crash warning devices....and adjusts your cruise when your gaining on a vehicle in front of you. (What will they think of next?)

These new vehicles are remarkable!!

 

[Diamondpilot]

Congrats! Did you get that Quadra-Lift adjustable suspension or Selec-Terrain transfer case?

I love reading the comments about how an SUV or 1/2 ton truck should be limited to 5,000 lbs. :laughing:
A 3/4 ton truck for anything over 5,000 lbs? Give me a break...
I've put a pallet of wood pellets (2,000 lbs) in the BED of my 1/2 ton truck with no problem and I trailer 8-9k lbs behind it with ease as well. That's a 7 year old truck, these new trucks are even more capable.

There is no doubt in my mind that this Jeep GC can handle 7,200 lbs safely and even in an emergency situation, WHEN PROPERLY SETUP and with all the vehicles systems (brakes, suspension, transmission, etc...) PROPERLY WORKING. Those are the major concerns, the vehicle itself is more than capable.

I agree with 100%. Man, that must be a first.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

No, really any of the modern 1/2 tons from about 99 on were good for a about 8,000# no matter what brand even if its not my or your favorite. I would not hesitate a 9,000# load in any of the newer 1/2 tons, say 06 and later, if the trailer was maintained properly and loaded the same and the truck had the trailer tow package and good gear ratio and again in good mechanical shape.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

You Betcha! The "Overland" model comes with the air lift suspension and select terain. I also got the Trail Rated version....which gives me 18" wheels and tires (in lieu of the 20" on the Overland models...better ride to my way of thinking...and able to cushion obstacles better when off-road) and the skid plates, etc. Also all the blind spot detectors and even crash warning devices....and adjusts your cruise when your gaining on a vehicle in front of you. (What will they think of next?)

These new vehicles are remarkable!!

Can not wait to see pictures.

Chris

 

[buck12]

I couldn't agree more. I have pulled heavy loads with a half ton before and lighter SUV's but there is no replacement for a proper tow vehicle. IMHO, anything over about 5000 lbs is in 3/4 ton range - regardless of what they say in there. Something as simple as getting proper tongue weight on a trailer is much more difficult with that much weight. Can a grand cherokee handle 800-1000 lbs tongue weight? If not - it has no business advertising that kind of towing capacity. Too little tongue weight results in a violent side to side sway that is terrifying in a properly sized tow vehicle.

I respectively disagree as to your blanket statement about 1/2 tons trucks. My 1/2 ton F150 is setting in the driveway loaded with 6,000 to 6,500 lbs (rated to tow 9,600 lbs) ready to take the tractor to the hunting camp tomorrow. It's a 35 - 40 mile one way trip with lots of hills (MS hills) and curves. The 09 F150 tugs it just fine. Now I have a 93 F150 that I would not consider using to pull such a load. You must have used a Government Motors 1/2 ton

 

[Bikewanderer]

I respectively disagree as to your blanket statement about 1/2 tons trucks. My 1/2 ton F150 is setting in the driveway loaded with 6,000 to 6,500 lbs (rated to tow 9,600 lbs) ready to take the tractor to the hunting camp tomorrow. It's a 35 - 40 mile one way trip with lots of hills (MS hills) and curves. The 09 F150 tugs it just fine. Now I have a 93 F150 that I would not consider using to pull such a load. You must have used a Government Motors 1/2 ton

I wasn't talking about pulling power at all. I know the new ones have lots of pulling power...much more than my one ton or our C6500 at work. All I mean is that I've had loads shift on me before, tires blow out, brakes fail, trailer sway from wind gusts and from improper loading - and there is no substitute for a heavy vehicle with stiff suspension meant for hauling trailers. Most half tons have very light suspensions for good rides and give up towing ability because of it.

Maybe there are exceptions out there and maybe I need more experience towing with the newer vehicles - but that's what my experiences have been.

One of the most terrifying experiences for me was pulling a gooseneck equipment trailer with a hammermill shaft weighing about 5000 lbs on it. I didn't strap it down well enough. It rolled off my blocks and hit the fender of the trailer. The truck instantly changed lanes - so fast I couldn't react. I was towing about 8000 lbs with a crew cab dually capable of handling twice that weight.

last week I was hauling water on my flatbed truck and while going downhill (offroad to get to the well) the load shifted. I wasn't overloaded but it was top heavy and I was scared to death I was going to flip the whole truck. One wheel was off the ground and I couldn't move the truck until I emptied the tank.

A few years ago i was hauling a skid steer on a little skid steer trailer and didn't know that it had to be backed on to get proper tongue weight. At 55 mph it began to shake violently. I was again driving a crew cab dually and nowhere near the towing capacity of the truck. It was all I could do to get slowed down and under control and stay even halfway in my lane.

I only bring up these stories to illustrate that there's a lot more to it than tow ratings, HP and disc brakes. There's a huge difference between half ton and three quarter ton and one ton equipment.

 

[Renze]

I had some close encounters too:

Once wrapped a borrowed trailer with a flat tire and malfunctioning brakes around a tree when it swayed out of control, with just a 500kg load of wooden floor planks on it, the front bulkhead fell off during the ride and took the load of planks to the back as well. (car was a Volvo 440 1.9TD, 1050kg empty weight, i was within the tow rating of the car, and at 1/2 the rating of the trailer)

Another thing is tongues: I have a brand manufacture trailer with a V drawbar built from 2x4" C channel. It doesnt pull half as good as the trailer i rebuilt for my brother, where i supported the single pipe towbar by two 2x3" tubes in V shape. tubes give less vibrations and also dampen sway.
With the above mentioned trailer that i folded around an oak, (also a single pipe towbar) i knew i was going to loose it when i saw the drawbar flex in relation to the trailer sides: i'm pretty sure that with a good V towbar, i would have been able to slow down and stop before i ran out of control.

Even though its not allowed because its build is registered, i plan to change to a square tubing drawbar anyways because it rides so much better, transfers less vibrations and resonances to the tow vehicle and doesnt tordate and flex as much as 3mm C-channel.

 

[Ken45101]

Just a story of why I believe a heavy, long wheel base tow vehicle is important.

A few years ago, we were exploring in WVa for places to take the horses camping. We DID NOT have a trailer with us at the time.

We were coming down a long 6% downhill grade on I-64 east of Beckley. We came around a curve and suddenly there there was a semi with the tractor pulled off the road but the trailer still blocking the right lane. We were in the midst of other semi trucks jockeying to change lanes! Being in the pickup alone, it was no problem, BUT IF WE HAD BEEN TOWING WITH A MAXED OUT VEHICLE, WE MAY HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THE INTERSTATE, PERHAPS SIDEWAYS OR FLIPPED OVER.

It's not what a vehicle can tow, it's what it can safely handle in an emergency! Just my two cents worth. YMMV.

 

[Dmace]

BUT IF WE HAD BEEN TOWING WITH A MAXED OUT VEHICLE, WE MAY HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THE INTERSTATE, PERHAPS SIDEWAYS OR FLIPPED OVER.

It's not what a vehicle can tow, it's what it can safely handle in an emergency! Just my two cents worth. YMMV.

So you don't know how the vehicle would have handled the emergency maneuver, you are assuming it would be bad.

Also, when a vehicle is at it's MAX TOW CAPACITY it is NOT "maxed out". Any vehicle can easily tow more than it's rated for but that tow capacity is what it's rated to pull,stop,turn, and handle SAFELY. Why do people think the max tow capacity is the absolute limit a vehicle can handle. Like 1 lb over that magic number is going to break the vehicle in half...:mur:
I've had many vehicles at or just above their limit and they could still handle more. You know it's back there and need to adjust your driving habits.
99% of accidents involving a vehicle towing something are at fault of the DRIVER that couldn't handle the load, not the TRUCK.

 

[foggy1111]

So you don't know how the vehicle would have handled the emergency maneuver, you are assuming it would be bad.

99% of accidents involving a vehicle towing something are at fault of the DRIVER that couldn't handle the load, not the TRUCK.

EXACTLY! :thumbsup:

Plus....some of the above nay-sayers (and safety police "cadets") have not experienced some of the fantastic "new tech" that's found in these new vehicles. Some of the anti-sway, traction-control, anti-lock-brakes, 4WD systems, and more are pretty slick. Of course they are not a substitute for driving skills....but they sure help!

In my youth I hauled tractors, heavy equipment and steel for quite a few years with a wide variety of trucks and trailers. (You havnt lived till you hauled fabricated steel products.) Throughout my life I have towed stuff (even participated in the design of quite a number of OTR and rental trailers when I worked for a major aluminum company). Yep...bad things can happen. HOWEVER...MOST of the towing problems dont come from properly equipped vehicles with the right tow ratings - Instead its typically operator error, poor judgment, or failing to secure your load.

Go ahead....buy twice the vehicle you need to haul stuff.....I don't mind.

Go rain on somebody else s parade. :laughing: I'm just planning to safely haul my needs with my new Jeep. :thumbsup: .....and have a reasonably fuel-efficient, every-day smooth riding vehicle (with great styling) when I am not towing stuff.

 

[Diamondpilot]

So you don't know how the vehicle would have handled the emergency maneuver, you are assuming it would be bad.

Also, when a vehicle is at it's MAX TOW CAPACITY it is NOT "maxed out". Any vehicle can easily tow more than it's rated for but that tow capacity is what it's rated to pull,stop,turn, and handle SAFELY. Why do people think the max tow capacity is the absolute limit a vehicle can handle. Like 1 lb over that magic number is going to break the vehicle in half...:mur:
I've had many vehicles at or just above their limit and they could still handle more. You know it's back there and need to adjust your driving habits.
99% of accidents involving a vehicle towing something are at fault of the DRIVER that couldn't handle the load, not the TRUCK.

Again I agree with you. This must be a record. The manufactures set the numbers they are comfortable with when it comes to liability. If they could not hand the weight listed they would never ever approve them for that.

Chris

 

[Ken45101]

Why of course, guys, 99.99% of all accidents are CAUSED BY PEOPLE.

Sure, a perfect driver may be able to avoid situations that someone else may not. It's good to know that everyone here is a perfect driver that never makes a mistake.

The more capable of a tow vehicle one has, the better the odds of handling an emergency situation.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Why of course, guys, 99.99% of all accidents are CAUSED BY PEOPLE.

Sure, a perfect driver may be able to avoid situations that someone else may not. It's good to know that everyone here is a perfect driver that never makes a mistake.

The more capable of a tow vehicle one has, the better the odds of handling an emergency situation.

I agree with you but lets take a couple common scenarios.

First is the Jeep in question for this thread. The man buying it says the boat for example weighs 4,500# and from what I know about boats the trailer is in the 1,200# range. Lets say there is 500# for gear and fuel bringing the load to 6,200# or 83% of its max 7,400# tow rating.

Now lets take my 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4. It has a GVWR of 7,101# and weighs right at 5,840# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel and all my junk, not the 5,297 Nissan says it does. (weight confirmed at the scales yesterday). This leaves a honest 1,261# for payload, (not the max 2,016# Nissan claims), but well over the 1/2 ton rating. It has a tow rating of 9,500# and max GCWR of 15,000# but because of its actual weight obtained by me at the scales it has a honest 9,160# of tow rating. These are the same number games Toyota, Ford, GM, and Dodge play also so don't bash Nissan here. Anyway I tow a 7,200# boat every weekend with it all over 5 or 6 states. So this means I am at 76% of its max tow rating of 9,500#.

Lastly lets take a brand new 2010 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton Crew Cab 4x4. Lets say the owner has a 14,000# 25' trailer that he uses to tote his 45HP tractor and such around with. Lets assume the trailer weighs 4,200# empty and the guys tractor is a 8,500# unit with its FEL and Bush Hog on the back. That brings his load upto 12,700#, a very common sight where I live. You could also substitute your every day run of the mill 35' 5th wheel with a couple of slide outs running up and down the highway. They are right at about the same weight. So he would be at 94% of its max tow rating of 13,450#.

So who is really the least safe? None in my opinion. All are within the manufactures ratings. If each truck and trailer are maintained and the hitch load is withing range along with a driver who is competent then there should be no problems. Yes things can happen. I could walk out the front door to get the mail and get ran over by a Pepsi truck but that just life.

Chris

 

[Ken45101]

Diamondpilot,

I would expect that the 14,000 GVW equipment trailer is a gooseneck. I know mine is, and all 5th wheel trailers are. (Yeah, I know there are some rear hitch Bobcat trailers, but putting one of those on an SUV?) Having the weight sitting on top of the rear axle instead of hanging back behind the bumper makes it a LOT more stable and controllable. It also eliminates the trailer hitch lightening up the front end, and eliminates the trailer pushing the overhanging rear sideways. Very few boat trailers are goosenecks ;-)

Seriously folks, gooseneck and 5th wheel hitches are a lot more stable than a rear end hitch.

 

[Bikewanderer]

I agree with you but lets take a couple common scenarios.

First is the Jeep in question for this thread. The man buying it says the boat for example weighs 4,500# and from what I know about boats the trailer is in the 1,200# range. Lets say there is 500# for gear and fuel bringing the load to 6,200# or 83% of its max 7,400# tow rating.

Now lets take my 2008 Nissan Titan 4x4. It has a GVWR of 7,101# and weighs right at 5,840# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel and all my junk, not the 5,297 Nissan says it does. (weight confirmed at the scales yesterday). This leaves a honest 1,261# for payload, (not the max 2,016# Nissan claims), but well over the 1/2 ton rating. It has a tow rating of 9,500# and max GCWR of 15,000# but because of its actual weight obtained by me at the scales it has a honest 9,160# of tow rating. These are the same number games Toyota, Ford, GM, and Dodge play also so don't bash Nissan here. Anyway I tow a 7,200# boat every weekend with it all over 5 or 6 states. So this means I am at 76% of its max tow rating of 9,500#.

Lastly lets take a brand new 2010 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton Crew Cab 4x4. Lets say the owner has a 14,000# 25' trailer that he uses to tote his 45HP tractor and such around with. Lets assume the trailer weighs 4,200# empty and the guys tractor is a 8,500# unit with its FEL and Bush Hog on the back. That brings his load upto 12,700#, a very common sight where I live. You could also substitute your every day run of the mill 35' 5th wheel with a couple of slide outs running up and down the highway. They are right at about the same weight. So he would be at 94% of its max tow rating of 13,450#.

So who is really the least safe? None in my opinion. All are within the manufactures ratings. If each truck and trailer are maintained and the hitch load is withing range along with a driver who is competent then there should be no problems. Yes things can happen. I could walk out the front door to get the mail and get ran over by a Pepsi truck but that just life.

Chris

Actually - in your example the Dodge is probably overloaded by quite a bit, especially if it's a gooseneck trailer. I don't know about dodges but on the ford and chevies the 3/4 ton GVWR is not too much heavier than the empty weight, maybe 1200 lbs. With some of them a fuel tank and toolbox in the bed will make the thing overloaded before a trailer is hooked up to them.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Actually - in your example the Dodge is probably overloaded by quite a bit, especially if it's a gooseneck trailer. I don't know about dodges but on the ford and chevies the 3/4 ton GVWR is not too much heavier than the empty weight, maybe 1200 lbs. With some of them a fuel tank and toolbox in the bed will make the thing overloaded before a trailer is hooked up to them.

The Dodges are no better. Actually the Ford is the best in the 3/4 ton dept if ordered with the optional 10,000# GVWR.

If you have been a member of this site for awhile you will remember I steer people away from 3/4 ton trucks for the reason you stated. I had a Dodge 3/4 ton and still have a Ford 3/4 ton then I got smart and bought 2 1 tons SRW trucks. In the Ford its about $600 more than a 3/4 ton but you gain about 1,500# in payload.

For example my 04 F-250 diesel 4x4 with the 10,000# GVWR package weighs 7,500# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel. That leaves a honest 2,500# for payload/pin weight. If it had the lightest 8,800# GVWR it would only have 1,300# like you stated.

My 06 Ford F-350 SRW diesel 4x4 has the 11,500# GVWR package and weighs just 100# more than my F-250 at 7,600#. This leaves 3,900# for payload/pin weight. Thats 1,400# more than the 3/4 ton for only $600. Not bad when you are buying a $45,000 truck.

Chris

 

[foggy1111]

Man......a guy starts a vehicle thread about an SUV / Daily Driver and limited (although capable) towing needs.......and next thing 'ya know we are driving 1 ton trucks with gooseneck trailers......AND EVEN THEY AINT BIG ENOUGH. Good grief. :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::shocked::thumbdown:

 

[KeithInSpace]

Good grief.:thumbdown:

C'mon...it isn't all like that. Towing a trailer of any weight or sort is dangerous business.

I'd put my Kubota BX on the back of my 3,500# capacity trailer and I'd have a hard time slowing it down. I now put the same tractor on my relatively huge 20' dovetail with a combined weight of closer to 4,500# and I can barely tell it's back there when accelerating or braking.

I am around lots and lots of folks with trailers when I'm camping with my travel trailer...30 nights a year on average. If I took a poll of how many folks think their tow vehicle is perfect, could be bigger, or is a real limitation, it would break down like this:
2 out of 5 would say their tow vehicle is a limitation
1 out of 5 would say their tow vehicle could be bigger but it is OK
2 out of 5 would say that their tow vehicle is perfect.

The 2 that say their vehicle is perfect are invariably driving a 1 ton diesel, either SRW or DRW. They've already "figured it out".

The 1 that says their truck is OK but could use more _________ (fill in the blank) is invariably driving a 1/2 ton SUV or PU. I fall into that category. I need a little more engine and a little more wheelbase.

The 2 that say their tow vehicle is a limitation are always driving Durangos, Jeeps, Terrains, Envoys, Ridgelines, or whatever uni-body trucklet you could name.

Buying a truck is no small deal...very expensive. You only want to do it once and you want to cover as many bases as you can with your purchase. If you're buying a daily driver, that's great. Even better if it can tow something.

I don't care what the ratings say...if you're buying a truck to TOW with, a Jeep store just isn't the first place one visits. I pull a 7,000# 29' travel trailer every other weekend with my wife and kids in the car and I can tell you there is absolutely no way on the planet earth I would EVER consider towing that same trailer with a Jeep...Commander, Cherokee, new, old, or otherwise.

You said in your original post that you like smaller vehicles but they don't have the tow ratings...there's a reason for that. Don't beat us up because we point out the simple fact that towing 7,000# with a Jeep is a VASTLY different conversation than towing 7,000# with a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck.

That said, I really hope you enjoy your truck. I'm quite certain you'll enjoy it more around town considerably more than I do my Expedition.

 

[foggy1111]

KiethInSpace......you are not listening to what I said....and you also give an apples and oranges comparison to boot. Two demerits.

The NEW Jeep GC is RATED for 7200 lbs towing, has a Hemi V8 for power, has AIR LIFT auto-height and weight adjustable suspension, is put on a NEW M class chassis designed by Daimler, has a class 1V hitch, great disc brakes, anti lock, 1130# max hitch weight, anti sway, and anti more. It is way more vehicle than your standard SUV in the towing department.

Its one issue to me would be it's short wb which is similar to other SUV's....so it's best to avoid mega-swerving when towing and drive super defensively especially on twisty roads (as with most towing and driving).

I am going to retire a GMC Acadia which has proven adequate for my towing needs UNTIL RECENTLY (FLAT LAND, SHORT HAUL SITUATIONS)....but does not have the GVW rating for the purposes stated.

Now...if I was towing across the rockies.....I may have a different opinion....but I ain't.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Just for the record I agree you do not need more vehicle. If the Jeep has the necessary tow rating for your needs than go for it. So many people on here think you need a 1 ton diesel to tow a log splitter. I have towed 10,000# many miles, probably close to 20,000, with a 4x4 F-150. Did it struggle at times, yes, but it did the job and the truck fit the rest of my life.

I came up with the example using your new Jeep and your boat, my Titan and my boat, and a Diesel pickup and a trailer to show how just because you are in a bigger vehicle there is little or no difference in % of load being towed. The manufactures come up with the numbers and they all come down to what they are comfortable with in the form of liability.


By the way, I have no idea what a Class 1V hitch is. There is no such thing. Hitches come in 5 classes. Class 1, class 2, class 3, class 4, and class 5. The only mention of a "V" on any hitch sold in North America is the V5 rating. That is simply a SAE rating. If you look at any quality hitch, ball, or draw bar it stamped V5. That simply means it meets the SAE specs, nothing more. So many assume that V5 means class 5 but that is NOT the case.

Chris

 

[foggy1111]

Just for the record I agree you do not need more vehicle. If the Jeep has the necessary tow rating for your needs than go for it. So many people on here think you need a 1 ton diesel to tow a log splitter. I have towed 10,000# many miles, probably close to 20,000, with a 4x4 F-150. Did it struggle at times, yes, but it did the job and the truck fit the rest of my life.

I came up with the example using your new Jeep and your boat, my Titan and my boat, and a Diesel pickup and a trailer to show how just because you are in a bigger vehicle there is little or no difference in % of load being towed. The manufactures come up with the numbers and they all come down to what they are comfortable with in the form of liability.


By the way, I have no idea what a Class 1V hitch is. There is no such thing. Hitches come in 5 classes. Class 1, class 2, class 3, class 4, and class 5. The only mention of a "V" on any hitch sold in North America is the V5 rating. That is simply a SAE rating. If you look at any quality hitch, ball, or draw bar it stamped V5. That simply means it meets the SAE specs, nothing more. So many assume that V5 means class 5 but that is NOT the case.

Chris

Yep....I appreciate your comments Chris. :thumbsup: And....partly I am just pulling a few chains on the tow debate here. It's just that these discussions can get outta hand so quick....and we have so many safety cadets. Sometimes we need a reality check.

I need a daily driver with some reasonable towing grunt. The Jeep described is one of the few vehicles in a class such as that....and I wanted to point that out. Quite a few other people have needs similar to mine...and I believe this vehicle will get 'er done.:thumbsup:

Oh....and I did mean a Class 4 hitch.