Sorry, another 50 hr service thread

[poldies4]

I'm planning on my 50 hr service happening today or tomorrow, and have some questions about it. Do I need to remove the loader to remove the engine cover? I'd rather not if I don't have to.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on the particulars of the service. My lovely wife was nice enough to go to the dealership for me yesterday to pick up the supplies, I had to work, and when I got home this is what I had to work with. 1 gallon of motor oil 10w-30, oil filter, 1 gallon of udt, 1 hst filter. That's it. According to my wife he looked it up on the computer, and assembled the list from that. My manual agrees with his list. At 50 hrs the requirement as stated by Kubota, engine oil, oil filter, transmission oil filter, clean transmission strainer, check engine start system, greasing, and check wheel bolt tourque.

At this time I feel it is necessary to keep it simple for my budget, the parts cost $55, not bad. What concerns me is the conflict between the new manual vs the old, vs nearly everyone on TBN. Why are the fuel filters that everyone talks about not even mentioned until a check at 100 hrs. It seems that everyone just changes them at 50, or am I misreading those posts? In my manual it says to change the front axle at 400 hrs, no mention of replacing at 50, however the man at the dealership specifically told my wife that the udt was to change out the front axle.

So, the bigger question to me is, are there a lot of people who own these tractors the type that like to do the wrench turning, that being why they do all things at 50? On the other side of that, are these smaller scut tractors just that tempermental that the slightest thing can/would lead to a catastrophic failure?

At this point I'm planning to follow my manuals recomendations, unless some very compelling arguments come up. Just wanting to see through the grey areas of the manuals. Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully thanks for the response..

 

[kuboman]

I'm planning on my 50 hr service happening today or tomorrow, and have some questions about it. Do I need to remove the loader to remove the engine cover? I'd rather not if I don't have to.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on the particulars of the service. My lovely wife was nice enough to go to the dealership for me yesterday to pick up the supplies, I had to work, and when I got home this is what I had to work with. 1 gallon of motor oil 10w-30, oil filter, 1 gallon of udt, 1 hst filter. That's it. According to my wife he looked it up on the computer, and assembled the list from that. My manual agrees with his list. At 50 hrs the requirement as stated by Kubota, engine oil, oil filter, transmission oil filter, clean transmission strainer, check engine start system, greasing, and check wheel bolt tourque.

At this time I feel it is necessary to keep it simple for my budget, the parts cost $55, not bad. What concerns me is the conflict between the new manual vs the old, vs nearly everyone on TBN. Why are the fuel filters that everyone talks about not even mentioned until a check at 100 hrs. It seems that everyone just changes them at 50, or am I misreading those posts? In my manual it says to change the front axle at 400 hrs, no mention of replacing at 50, however the man at the dealership specifically told my wife that the udt was to change out the front axle.

So, the bigger question to me is, are there a lot of people who own these tractors the type that like to do the wrench turning, that being why they do all things at 50? On the other side of that, are these smaller scut tractors just that tempermental that the slightest thing can/would lead to a catastrophic failure?

At this point I'm planning to follow my manuals recomendations, unless some very compelling arguments come up. Just wanting to see through the grey areas of the manuals. Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully thanks for the response..

Manuals change like the weather. You can not go wrong by changing all the fluids and filters. I would do it around the 50hr mark and then you know everything will be good and clean for a long time.

 

[TripleR]

I go by the manual. My 2003 BX2200 is still running strong as is my 2008 BX2660.

I have consulted with my dealer who has been in business for over fifty years. I trust them more than someone who has owned a tractor or two and "always done it this way."

Some feel more comfortable changing everything, I don't.

 

[bp fick]

compelling reason?

No, there is no compelling reason to veto or override the directive of the manual and drain all that expensive sudt. None whatsoever.

The option is always there to do more than the manual calls, or do things more often, but no compelling reason.

 

[fredhargis]

I just a few hours away from the 50 hr service on mine, and I just intend to do as the manual says.

 

[TripleR]

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/167108-do-your-own-fluids-filters.html

 

[rdsaustintx]

Well, now that you have stirred up a perennial (and insoluble) debate, here are some specific answers.

Obviously it is easier, but you don't have to remove the loader (or the hood) to get the engine cowl off.

Fuel filters are not part of the 50 hour debate. They can go a couple hundred hours easy.

If you a changing or topping off, might want to use SUDT instead of UDT. Another perennial debate there.

Have a blast,

Russell in BubbaLand

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I go by the manual. My 2003 BX2200 is still running strong as is my 2008 BX2660.

I have consulted with my dealer who has been in business for over fifty years. I trust them more than someone who has owned a tractor or two and "always done it this way."

Some feel more comfortable changing everything, I don't.

compelling reason?

No, there is no compelling reason to veto or override the directive of the manual and drain all that expensive sudt. None whatsoever.

The option is always there to do more than the manual calls, or do things more often, but no compelling reason.

I just a few hours away from the 50 hr service on mine, and I just intend to do as the manual says.

I agree with these opinions and these men own several different tractors and have over the years but they seem to move forward with the times and don't do things that used to be done out of fear.

I've purchased 11 Kubotas and currently have three. I go by the manual which rarely changes. As technology changes then service intervals has increased in tracors and cars. Being a make sure kind of guy, I contacted Kubota Corp and attached is their reply. I don't change oil on my cars but I do service my tractors, it's so easy and helps me learn a little more about them.
The front axles usually indicate they are low after a few hours of use even though they are topped off at the dealer. Guess fluid fills crevices. You will also lose a slight amount of SUDT when you change your hydraulic filter and clean the screen. I'd plan on using the extra gallon for those top offs and you should still have a few quarts left.. I finally found a tapered 1" cork at the hardware store to use to plug the hole when I pull the screen out for cleaning. I took some pictures of a 50 hour service and I'll try to find it and bump it forward.








John, the person or persons from TBN do not know what they are talking
about. There has not been a Service Bulletin or even a notice sent to the
dealers that this is a mistake in the Operators manual. Kubota Tractor
recommends for you to follow your Operators manuals for servicing of each
unit you have. The BX2660 and the BX25 do not have to have the transmission
fluid change until it reaches the 400 hour mark. For the F2680, it is the
200 hour mark. The transmission oil filters need to be replaced and the
suction strainers cleaned at or before the 50 hour mark for all three
units. Your selling dealer can also assist you if you have any questions in
regard to servicing your tractors. Thank you for purchasing and contacting
Kubota Tractor Corp..

 

[Larry Caldwell]

To access the engine, just raise the loader to get it out of the way. It should have safety bars mounted right on the loader arms that can be used to prop it in place, so someone doesn't accidentally drop the bucket on you.

 

[DiezNutz]

You certainly can't hurt anything, only help, by changing fluids/filters earlier than recommended (or, in the case of some older manuals, exactly when recommended). Can you hurt anything by not doing it "early"? Well, that's the big unknown.

As technology changes then service intervals has increased in tractors and cars.

And yet the part that gets me is, there's no evidence that the technology of these tractors and the fluids we're using in them really has changed, and yet the manual service intervals just arbitrarily changed seemingly overnight, for no good reason. So you have to ask, was the decision to increase the service intervals based solely on marketing and customer expectations about maintenance, or is there really any technical/scientific merit to it? Hard to know.

John, the person or persons from TBN do not know what they are talking
about. There has not been a Service Bulletin or even a notice sent to the
dealers that this is a mistake in the Operators manual. Kubota Tractor
recommends for you to follow your Operators manuals for servicing of each
unit you have....Your selling dealer can also assist you if you have any questions in
regard to servicing your tractors. Thank you for purchasing and contacting
Kubota Tractor Corp..

JT, I guess as long as you're going to keep getting mileage out of this reply from Kubota, I have to keep pointing out that it probably came right out of the customer service handbook and not from anyone speaking with any real technical authority (e.g., an actual engineer).

This is one of those personal decisions... you research it the best you can, and ultimately you do whatever you feel comfortable with. In the end, it may not make much difference.

 

[LostInTheWoods]

And yet the part that gets me is, there's no evidence that the technology of these tractors and the fluids we're using in them really has changed, and yet the manual service intervals just arbitrarily changed seemingly overnight, for no good reason. So you have to ask, was the decision to increase the service intervals based solely on marketing and customer expectations about maintenance, or is there really any technical/scientific merit to it? Hard to know.

I couldn't venture a guess as to the technology today vs. previously. Not my forte. Maybe the change is based on retroactive analysis of outcomes, more than any great technological changes. Found out more frequent fluid changes are overkill in the grand scheme of things, perhaps? Happens in medicine, from time to time. Some cancer screening guidelines where changed recently, having been found to be needed at less-frequent intervals than was previously thought necessary.

JT, I guess as long as you're going to keep getting mileage out of this reply from Kubota, I have to keep pointing out that it probably came right out of the customer service handbook and not from anyone speaking with any real technical authority (e.g., an actual engineer).

This is one of those personal decisions... you research it the best you can, and ultimately you do whatever you feel comfortable with. In the end, it may not make much difference.

IMHO, doing what the owners manual says along with keeping the receipts from Kubota SUDT/oil/etc. gives me plenty of piece-of-mind. If I also had a letter in black and white from Kubota that says the same thing, so much the better.

 

[DiezNutz]

I couldn't venture a guess as to the technology today vs. previously. Not my forte. Maybe the change is based on retroactive analysis of outcomes, more than any great technological changes. Found out more frequent fluid changes are overkill in the grand scheme of things, perhaps? Happens in medicine, from time to time. Some cancer screening guidelines where changed recently, having been found to be needed at less-frequent intervals than was previously thought necessary.

Your guess is as good as mine. That's a valid point too, and one I might even feel better about than a "calculated risk" based simply on marketing pressure and warranty claims review. I would attempt to get an explanation from Kubota myself, except I know I'm not going to get the definitive answer directly from the person or persons who really know. Maybe if I get bored one day I will...

Until then, about all we can do is offer the different points of view for consideration, and let the reader(s) decide for themselves what makes them happy. :thumbsup:

 

[donn12]

I have never taken the loader off for a service and I have found them to be very easy. What model do you have? On my B I changed the trans filter and the hydro filter. My manual mentioned removing the loader brace - no way. I stuck a funnel edge up there and it was fine.

 

[pitt_md]

I didn't see what model tractor you have but are you sure that 1 gallon of UDT is enough? I just did the 200 hour service on my MX5000 and it needs close to 10 gallons of UDT.

 

[jlsmith]

I didn't see what model tractor you have but are you sure that 1 gallon of UDT is enough? I just did the 200 hour service on my MX5000 and it needs close to 10 gallons of UDT.

I was thinking the same thing

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

JT, I guess as long as you're going to keep getting mileage out of this reply from Kubota, I have to keep pointing out that it probably came right out of the customer service handbook and not from anyone speaking with any real technical authority (e.g., an actual engineer).

Diez, You offer probablys and speculations and theories and opinions based on your ideas and feelings. I offer written documentation from the engineers and builders in the form of the Written Manual and an Email from the Head Engineer of the Hydro Fuid changes Department of Kubota World Headquarters. You speculate it's from a sales guy and I speculate it's from the World acclaimed leading engineer of hydraulic fluids and their life span as used in Kubota tractors. I speculate my theory is more valid than yours since I have it in writing and you have it in, well just your opinion based on .......
As I've asked before, why 50? Where did 50 come from? Why not 25, 29, 37, 88? It came from the Manual is where the 50 came from. Think about that! The Manual started the 50 hour change and now we don't believe the manual? Times change and knowledge improves as do products. The Manual says when to change it and I'll go by the Manual as I did with earlier tractors and changed them when the Manual said to.

 

[bp fick]

When John Thomas first engaged this thought process publicly and published his response from Kubota, I too had pause. I am, by nature, a huge over achiever when it comes to maintenance.

But I thought it through awhile. I liken it to an automatic trans in a car, in some ways. 50 hours is probably 10,000 miles on a car. I thought to myself, how many folks dump the trans fluid in the car at 10,000 miles, just to be sure? 2% of the population or less, I am sure.

The manuals for cars used to say 3000 miles on oil changes too, and now they typically say 7000 miles. Manuals indeed change. Times do indeed change. The over achievers used to come into our garage and get oil changes at 2K. Lots of them. Regular as clock work. We loved them!!

When that 7000 mile shift came on cars, the doubters wondered, to be sure. The quick oil change places kept up their marketing propaganda for 3000 miles and, of course, put on the little reminder sticker.

At this point in my life, I have come to see it as a huge waste of resources. It's my point of view, as always, YMMV.

Kubota probably could have done a better job of explaining this change, imho. But then, communication of this kind isn't always one of Kubota's strong suits.

But of all the Orange owners in this world, most are not here on a forum worrying about such stuff. They'll check the manual, maybe, and see what it says, and that will be that.

 

[DiezNutz]

I offer ... an Email from the Head Engineer of the Hydro Fluid changes Department of Kubota World Headquarters.

Really? Your email actually came from an engineering head at Kubota? As incredible as that is to believe, if it's actually true then why didn't you ever say so in the first place? Btw, it's doubtful that the engineers are the ones that wrote the manuals, either... that rarely happens in a large corporation.

My "probablys and speculations and theories and opinions" are based on a little bit more than my "ideas and feelings", they're also based on my professional opinion as a design engineer that works in an engineering & manufacturing enterprise not unlike Kubota, and therefore having an inside perspective on how such a business really works. Also from my understanding of the real reasons behind why we see extended maintenance intervals everywhere these days, and it isn't all because of technological advances.

So based on my own experience as indicated, I offer these comments:
1) I rarely ever see customer inquiries, let alone respond to them directly. At best, the customer might get a field engineer, but more often than not it's handled by customer service.
2) The only documentation I write is internal technical documentation. I don't write manuals for "public consumption", nor would I even be allowed to independently. We have other business units that do that, and it's a joint effort involving multiple disciplines... not the least of which are the reliability and maintainability engineers.
3) I mention technological advances, because tractors and automobiles aren't a fair comparison. Tractors don't keep pace, because frankly, they don't need to - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". For example, the basic technology of a Kubota (S)CUT engine has changed very little in the last 30 or so years. Indirect injection? Mechanical injection pumps and injectors? Manual glow plugs? This is all old-school stuff. Which is fine, it doesn't need to be fancy.
Likewise, have we seen any evidence that SUDT formulation has been changed/improved for extended drain intervals?
Many advances have come about (e.g., direct-injection, DPFs) as a result of environmental and regulatory pressure, not because they were really necessary.

I can't argue against what the "new" manual says, actually I'm not looking to argue with anyone at all. BP is right, most Orange owners aren't going to worry about this stuff. For the few like myself that might wonder how arbitrary a change it really is/was, I think I offered some pretty good ideas and perspective. We have equal rights to present fair and differing views, otherwise this place would be pretty boring wouldn't it.

Will it help to leave it in longer? No, the only possibility is it can hurt.
Will it hurt to change it earlier? No, the only possibility is it can help.
So, anything wrong with following the "new" manual recommendations? Nope.
Anything wrong with changing fluids early (i.e., per the "old" guidelines)? Nope.

Hence, why I say it's purely a personal decision based on each individual's comfort level.

Kubota probably could have done a better job of explaining this change, imho. But then, communication of this kind isn't always one of Kubota's strong suits.

Thank you, we are in 100% agreement on this. :thumbsup:

 

[DiezNutz]

50 hours is probably 10,000 miles on a car.

If you use the common rule of thumb that 1 hour = 60 miles (e.g., 60 mph), then 50 hours = 3,000 miles. Even worse, per your example of ATF.
Fortunately my B's hourmeter is a function of engine rpm, which I think is the right way, and that 50 hours might be more like 75 "realtime" hours, or about 4500 miles. It annoys me that my ZTR's hourmeter is purely a function on whether the key is switched on or off.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Some years ago a Car Magazine interviewed a Molecular Engineer. The age old question of changing oil at 3000 miles came up. The Engineer explained that oil never breaks down and always stays oil with lubrication abilities. He stated it just gets dirty but it's still lubricating oil thus the extended miles before changing were very appropriate and it was not necessary to change oil at 3000 miles. The interviewer then asked him when he changed his oil. He said at every 3000 miles because as cheap as an oil change is why would he take a chance.:laughing::laughing:
Not being an engineer nor a mechanic but having studied the personalities of different occupations I understand those that say change for safety sake and those that say don't ever change it, trade it off when any service needs to be done.