First oil change BEFORE recommended time interval

[jtheise4]

I recently purchased a new Massey Ferguson 1643. The owners manual recommends the first oil change at 50 hours. I don't put a lot of hours on my machine, so I probably won't hit 50 hours until a year from now. To me, that seems like a very long time to have the factory oil lubricating the engine. It has always been my understanding that the first oil change should be done sooner than usual to remove any metal debris from manunfactuing. My question is, is this still a valid thought with modern diesel engines and two, is there any harm in changing the oil out at say 15 or 25 hours? Thanks for the input.

 

[bp fick]

While likely unnecessary, if you are really, really slow to accumulate hours, you can always use the "once a year" schedule that a lot of guys use.

 

[rjkobbeman]

Once a year is probably a good schedule to follow if your hours accumulate slowly.

To your question though, it will not hurt anything to change oil "too often". You could change oil every hour if you wanted to...

If your tractor is sitting for LONG periods of time without use, you probably should work out a schedule to actually start using it. Start it up, warm it up and put a load on it. Get everything up to temp to keep in in good working order.

 

[nebraskasparks]

Just took some Scouts to the local implement dealer and talked to the mechanics about tractor maintenance. The old, gray haired mechanic smiled when he said..." you know in the winter when you see all that frost on your tractor? (Heads nodded) That frost is in your oil and hydraulic lines and any farmer that wants to keep his equipment running without a big repair bill will change that oil/hydraulic fluid every spring. You can either change out the fluid or heat up the fluid on a regular basis to get rid of the moisture. Water will tear down your machine eventually.

Sounded good to everyone there.

 

[jlsmith]

It wont hurt to change it now but remember your first 50 to 100 hrs is your break in point. Dont put around on the tractor work it like a dog and it will last longer. The harder you work it now the better performance you will get later.:thumbsup:

 

[rjkobbeman]

It wont hurt to change it now but remember your first 50 to 100 hrs is your break in point. Dont put around on the tractor work it like a dog and it will last longer. The harder you work it now the better performance you will get later.:thumbsup:

I would also add to change it at 50 hours... even if you changed it earlier than that.

 

[Soundguy]

ditto what the others said.. 50 hrs or a year.. whichever comes first.

inspect drain oil and filter for shavinf=gs and what not. if it has magnetic plugs, observe them and clean them.

soundguy

 

[brokenot]

The manufacturer is well aware of any and all advantages/disadvantages of doing something like *this* or doing something like *that*. I don't see any reliability/longevity issues with any equipment I deal with daily when the end-user uses and maintains the equipment as specified by the manufacturer.

On the other hand, I see all kinds of issues when folks use and maintain their equipment in a manner suggested "by some guy that told me....."

Many people that choose to buy into the word-of-mouth stuff never even open their manuals, and if they do....they call and ask me anyway for some sort of "verification".

"My manual says to use *this* grade of oil. What do you think I should use?"

"My manuals says to service the machine at *this* interval. What do you think I should do?"

I get asked stuff like that all the time, and it really makes me wonder....

I'm just sayin'.

When you ask someone questions like this, you're essentially just flipping a coin. The person(s) you ask may have some useful and appropriate advice, or they may have some opinions to offer up. Opinions are fine, but if you ask several people, you'll wind up with several opinions.

 

[rjkobbeman]

The manufacturer is well aware of any and all advantages/disadvantages of doing something like *this* or doing something like *that*. I don't see any reliability/longevity issues with any equipment I deal with daily when the end-user uses and maintains the equipment as specified by the manufacturer.

On the other hand, I see all kinds of issues when folks use and maintain their equipment in a manner suggested "by some guy that told me....."

Many people that choose to buy into the word-of-mouth stuff never even open their manuals, and if they do....they call and ask me anyway for some sort of "verification".

"My manual says to use *this* grade of oil. What do you think I should use?"

"My manuals says to service the machine at *this* interval. What do you think I should do?"

I get asked stuff like that all the time, and it really makes me wonder....

I'm just sayin'.

When you ask someone questions like this, you're essentially just flipping a coin. The person(s) you ask may have some useful and appropriate advice, or they may have some opinions to offer up. Opinions are fine, but if you ask several people, you'll wind up with several opinions.

So... are you saying that changing your oil at say 25 hours is bad for your tractor?

You're going to have a hard time backing that up. We all pretty much said it still has to be done at 50 hours, but changing it early isn't going to hurt.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I will put my $.01 in here. While changing the oil early definitely wont hurt anything but your pocket book and the remaining world oil reserve, I cant see the advantage or need. The manufacturer sets these maintenance intervals for a reason and that is to protect the equipment and thus their warranty. If they specify 50 hours, you can bet the farm that you dont need to change it any quicker than that. I am sure that they have hedged their bets to the point of overkill. I will relate to you what my truck dealer said regarding oil changes, change it when the manual tells you to and anything more is just wasting money and resources. Now I am sure someone is going to flame me, but the old mindset from the 8N tractor days of 3000 mile oil changes for autos is a thing of the past. The lubricants today are so much superior to then that it is no comparison to the wear rate back then and I would bet that back then we still had a 50 hour oil change. Those who still maintain that they do it to protect their investment are just wasting the valuable resources that we have for no benefit. Time is the most dangerous culprit in wear and tear on anything mechanical. There is a good reason why over the road tractor trucks get 3-4 million miles and it is only partially due to the quality of the engines, the biggest thing is that they are constantly running and rarely setting around to collect moisture and corrosion.
A new engine needs time to wear in the rings and bearings so they properly seat. These fine metallic particles collect in the oil filter and you will get rid of most of them with the first oil/filter change. The poorer the machining of the engine, the more wear particles you will have. I am told that some of the old soviet tank engines would wear up to 10 pounds of metal off in the first 50 hours of operation due to the poor machining. I sure hope our CUT engines and transmissions are much better than that. GO ahead Flame away.

 

[CBW1999]

I would like to see on tractors- what they have in most cars now. The display that tells you what "%" of oil lubricity is left, or the "change oil" light.

I have had a time convincing my wife that "every 3000 miles" is a waste, when the manufacturer has given you a tool that better suits the engine.

-for those not familiar, being computer controlled, the cars system calculates oil life based on several factors. Engine RPM, Temperature extremes and other factors that breakdown oil. It is not simply a 'count down" clock.

Since there are many different things each of us do with our tractor, it would be individualized when we do the P.M.

With my tractor, I follow (the best I can) the recommended intervals. However, with the average of 50 hours per year that I put on, I opt to do P.M. annually.

Ironically, I am about to get the oil changed in my car. 10000 since the last one, getting the same MPG all the time!

 

[rjkobbeman]

From what I understand, the filter is the weak link.

-- in general -- not neccesarily tractors --

If you change the filter, your oil can go the distance. Most just figure on changing the oil "while their at it".

Don't tractor trailer operators change their filters but keep their oil and have analysis done on it? They have A LOT of oil to change... so it make sense in their case.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I knew a farmer when I was about 16 that I sometimes drove his 806 IH tractor that only changed the filter and never the oil. IT used about 2-3 quarts per day when under heavy load which was about typical of diesel tractors back in the 60's. He just kept pouring the oil in daily and changed the filter (ocassionally). He had 2 of the 806 tractors and they had close to 10,000 hours on them last I remember and they still ran just like they did when new. They used about 1-3 quarts of oil per day depending on the severity of service. Air filters were cleaned and replaced regularly, but I know that in 3 years, the oil was never changed, well make that drained and refilled. It was changed 3 quarts at a time.

 

[jpm]

the OP problems would come from condensation and dry start from very low useage.he would be better off starting & running tractor once a week than letting it sit and changing at 25 hrs

 

[RoyJackson]

One reason to wait (I didn't see this in any of the previous posts, surprisingly, but I may have missed it) for the 50 hours is the engine break-in. Piston rings need to wear in to ensure a good seal and long life.
So, I'd go the 50 hours, even if you make time or tasks to use the tractor.

When I bought my old 790, it had 24 hours on the meter (even though it had been owned by the previous owner for about a year or a bit more). The dealer I bought it from was pretty insistent I wait until 50 hours before the first oil change. I did, but I made sure I had those hours accumulated within a few months.
After break in, I change annually regardless of how few hours I put on the machine (I average 75 hours annually).

 

[bp fick]

the OP problems would come from condensation and dry start from very low useage.he would be better off starting & running tractor once a week than letting it sit and changing at 25 hrs

Low use owners are tempted to "start up" their tractors once a week or so, but the problem with that is that many might not do anything more than idle it for a few minutes, then shut it down.

Frankly, I'd much rather have the equipment sit as to do that to it. There is no point in starting up a machine until or unless one has actual work for it to do. Those cold starts and warm at best shutdowns are brutal. Idling itself accomplish very little and can do more much more harm than good.

 

[Gil A]

I guess I am from the old, old school when you changed the oil the first time on a NEW engine after a short running time. Remember when car manufacturers recommended 1st change at 1000 miles and then each 2000 miles thereafter. Just purchased a high $ zero turn mower and the manufacturer recommended the 1st change after 8 hours and then each 100 hours thereafter. In manufacturing there is usually some metal particles, dirt, etc left inside the engine block. The first oil change will get rid of it. After the 1st change follow the manufacturer recommendation.
Regards, Gil

 

[Gary Fowler]

I dont know if the manufacturers still do it, but years ago the break-in oil was different from the recommended oil. If I recall, most of it was a straight mineral oil with out the detergents to keep the engine clean. They wanted it to wear in a bit and build up some deposits, therefore they had a short time between oil change. I dont think that a modern engine builder today would have dirt etc left in the engine after assembly what with the clean rooms and such that they use, unless they are still working in the old chinese factorys with the dirt floors. What you do get is the wear forming of all the bearings that produces the small amount of metal as I mentioned in post #10 and this is a very small amount. We get rid of that and get a top quality oil in the engine after the break-in period to reduce any further wear to a minimum. I would agree with Roy that if you dont complete the breakin period prior to changing the oil, then you may do more harm than good to your engine. If a person cant put 50 hours on a tractor in a year, then he likely didnt need it to begin with. My tractor will set idle for 2 months while I am out of the country working, but I will put 30-40 hours on it in the 3 weeks I am home just about everytime. Of course I am still trying to get all my place in shape so there is lots of bush hogging and dirt moving to be done. The hours will likely fall way off once I get most of the planned projects completed.

 

[bp fick]

The vast majority of engine builders today no longer use anything remotely similar to break-in oil. GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc in the their cars and trucks do not and have not for decades. Standard 5w-30 or whatever, nothing special.

Shoot, you have a large and increasing number of vehicles, "foreign" and "domestic" that come with full synthetic in them from the factory. Wow! how do they "break-in"? The tolerances and metallurgy is so changed, that there isn't much to break-in anymore, not as we understood it in the past.

Times and technologies change.

 

[Rob-D]

There's another reason to wait, When an engine block is machined there are stray particles of metal floating around that suspend in the oil and lay on the bottom of the crank case. Sometimes it takes time, even a little engine and machine bouncing around, for them to migrate to the filters.
Like others have said it won't do any harm but the benefit is questionable. I'd let it sit and change it out at 50.

If you want to do something good for your engine when you do the first oil change drill a small hole in the drain plug for a 1/4" high power magnet. We used to do this on our racing engines and I think Porsche still does it for all their production models too.

By the way, the most wear on an engine is when it starts and stops, especially if it has been sitting for a few weeks. If you start it get it hot, few things kill an engine as fast as the person who drives three miles to work and back. The engine never gets hot enough, that's bad.

Rob