Heavy Duty Pickup Shootout

[Diamondpilot]

Luckily for Dodge, those who want to sit in front of Home Depot or the grocery store "bragging" about their trucks can go buy those Ford/GM trucks while those who "work" them can still pickup a RAM.
I'll take a "medium-duty" diesel rated for over 500k miles before rebuild making "only" 650 lb.ft over a brand new diesel made by a company with very little experience in diesel manufacturing or a japanese made diesel plagued with recalls any day!

As far as max towing capacity (staying UNDER 26k GCWR):
Ford F-350 - 15,700 lbs (23,400 lbs GCWR)
GM 3500HD - 17,800 lbs (24,500 lbs GCWR)
Dodge RAM 3500 - 17,600 lbs (25,400 lbs GCWR) <-2011 model rumored to match cab/chassis 18,850 lbs towing / 26,000 GCWR
I know it's tough to see since they are all so close but it looks like Dodge is not the one "trailing"...

Like it was said before non of us are going to change anyone's minds more than likely. You are clearly Dodge brand loyal. Every time a truck comparison comes up you find a way for a Dakota, Ram, or Cummins to fit the bill the best. As for me I have owned them all since 2005. I know whats best and even though I hate GM and would not buy one it kills me to say it GM has a winner this time around.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need to to make it look the way you want. 99% of the people on here will agree the Cummins is currently the best engine. We will have to see how the new Ford stacks up? Where they are currently lacking is with the chassis, tow rating, and HP numbers. If they can get that on par with GM and Ford they will have something but right now they are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Luckily for Dodge, those who want to sit in front of Home Depot or the grocery store "bragging" about their trucks can go buy those Ford/GM trucks while those who "work" them can still pickup a RAM.
I'll take a "medium-duty" diesel rated for over 500k miles before rebuild making "only" 650 lb.ft over a brand new diesel made by a company with very little experience in diesel manufacturing or a japanese made diesel plagued with recalls any day!

whats funny is they put a motor that will last 500k miles in a truck that falls apart before 100k miles.

If it were so illegal to be pulling these trailers, i'm sure dot would pulling over all the fords on the road, as towns and states would love the fines and penalties seeing that almost every state is broke.

I'm just amazed at how pro dodge and anti anything else you are when it comes to trucks.

Its Builder all over again. LOL!:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Chris

 

[Dmace]

You are clearly Dodge brand loyal. Every time a truck comparison comes up you find a way for a Dakota, Ram, or Cummins to fit the bill the best.

Brand loyalty comes in the form of users exactly like yourself that state YOUR OPINION of everything. I do not come on here and say this is the best because I have owned all of them and this is my opinion, sound familiar...?
I am clearly stating the facts and posting numbers so everyone can make their own assessment. I have stated many times that ALL these trucks are very competent and very close in comparison. If showing the FACTS makes the Dodge look on top or above another manufacturer then so be it. I am not making anything up.

Its Builder all over again. LOL!:laughing::laughing::laughing:

And now I see why he doesn't participate in these discussions anymore. You Ford owners love to puff your chest about numbers and toughness but when the truth in numbers is posted, you resort to personal attacks. :laughing:

 

[Big Bri]

Its Builder all over again. LOL!:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Chris

ya you can't have blinders on. I admit that i have owned a lot of fords, but i'll give credit where due. Yes Chevy has really changed their truck line up. And from what i've read they will be a lot more competitive in the truck market. but i won't buy one not because i'm pro ford but because they are government owned. Same goes for the Dodge.
To tell you the truth i've seen some post and read some stats an a toyota HD truck w/diesel engine, that i would love to test drive. (if they ever let them make them in the states).

 

[RobertN]

After 7 pages of stuff, I read the report web site.

Honestly, this is like splitting hairs. The trucks were so dang close it is amazing. Even more amazing, how close the 2500 series diesels were(what I would buy again). What surprised me, was how close the Cummins Dodge was, even though its peak HP and Torque are down compared to the GM/Ford.

I am generally a Dodge Cummins/Ford guy. Even though I trend first towards a Dodge Cummins, I would have to say, again, this is really splitting hairs. I did not see a "I kicked your behind down the street and back with my hands tied behind my back" kinda winner like I expected after just reading this thread.

Keep telling yourself whatever you need to to make it look the way you want. 99% of the people on here will agree the Cummins is currently the best engine. We will have to see how the new Ford stacks up? Where they are currently lacking is with the chassis, tow rating, and HP numbers. If they can get that on par with GM and Ford they will have something but right now they are bringing a knife to a gun fight.

 

[wmonroe]

After 7 pages of stuff, I read the report web site.

Honestly, this is like splitting hairs. The trucks were so dang close it is amazing. Even more amazing, how close the 2500 series diesels were(what I would buy again). What surprised me, was how close the Cummins Dodge was, even though its peak HP and Torque are down compared to the GM/Ford.

I am generally a Dodge Cummins/Ford guy. Even though I trend first towards a Dodge Cummins, I would have to say, again, this is really splitting hairs. I did not see a "I kicked your behind down the street and back with my hands tied behind my back" kinda winner like I expected after just reading this thread.

I think you said it best. Just pick the truck you like and enjoy it, they're all good trucks. I'm not going to say which brand i'm loyal to because what does it matter, if you drive a different truck and like it thats good but it has no effect on what I drive and like.

 

[jcmseven]

Robert, well put. Last year the differences in this report were a bit more telling. This year, they are fairly close. That said, it is still nice to see that the pickup I own and worked many nights of overtime to pay for/buy, was the kicker and not the kickee. It is clear that competition drives this breed and despite having the g'ment clamps on emissions trying to hurt the performance, the performance is going up (and truthfully the mileage too--real world). I remember in 2002 buying my first Ford diesel, a 7.3L truck rated at 250 HP and 505 lb. ft of torque from the factory. It was "the bomb" in those days. I ended up modifying it with a full Banks Power Pack system and it was a "screamer" at the time (just 7 years ago really). It made around 350 HP and about 700 lb. ft of torque according to a dyno run I did soon after modifying it. Yet now, two of the three trucks tested from the factory, with better mileage and drivability than my 2002 ever had, make way more power; and the third (Dodge) is pretty close. To me, this is pretty amazing: 150 HP and 250-300 ft. Lb. difference in that short of a time. Whether we as consumers need that kind of performance and what kind of license we would need to use said performance is a secondary issue. Let's shoot for a 1000 ft. lbs.!!! Fine with me.

John M

 

[Duffster]

site a source

IF it where only that simple. That is why I say that the FMCSA and state regulations must read thouroghly.

The biggest thing is that the GCWR that the manufacture sets is not a legal rating, since it is not on the door label like GAWR and GVWR, so how anyone can think that is what dictates the class of license one needs is beyond me.

 

[Duffster]

I have sited sources and different examples that all say the same thing GCWR IS NOT GVWR+GVWR.

You haven't cited anything from a source that matters.

Either way good luck towing a 14k trailer, even empty, with a 13k truck anywhere around here without a class A.

 

[Dmace]

The biggest thing is that the GCWR that the manufacture sets is not a legal rating, since it is not on the door label like GAWR and GVWR, so how anyone can think that is what dictates the class of license one needs is beyond me.

There you go again stating what you THINK without the ability to back up ANYTHING YOU SAY with proof.

You haven't cited anything from a source that matters.

GCWR is the LEGAL WEIGHT LIMIT of the vehicle SET BY THE MANUFACTURER. And the GCWR is on your registration AND in the DMV database linked to the VIN for that vehicle. You want a site, here is a direct quote from the FMCSA that YOU mention above:

Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) motor vehicle. In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon.

Now since you are still not getting this, I will try and make it simpler. "In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer" means that IF THE MANUFACTURER DID NOT SET THE GCWR THEN THEY WILL DETERMINE IT. So if the manufacturer specifies a GCWR then that is the LEGAL RATING!
"GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit".
Notice how they come up with the GCWR? It's the GVWR of the truck and the WEIGHT of the trailer NOT THE GVWR. AGAIN: GCWR IS NOT GVWR+GVWR.

Either way good luck towing a 14k trailer, even empty, with a 13k truck anywhere around here without a class A.

Since the GCWR PROVIDED BY THE MANUFACTURER of that RAM is under 26k then I would have NO PROBLEM hauling that 14k trailer around there, here, or any where.

 

[sld]

My Superduty V10 will smoke a hemi in every way!!!

And after 150k miles it would eat the Cummins for breakfast and come back for more!:laughing::laughing::laughing: because the dodge would've fallen apart:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I love these brand loyalty threads. I am not sure there is anything, besides maybe politics, that stokes a fire like this.

 

[Duffster]

GCWR is the LEGAL WEIGHT LIMIT of the vehicle SET BY THE MANUFACTURER.

Yes, the manufacture of the truck(GVWR) + the manufacture of the trailer(s) (GVWR) = GCWR.

And the GCWR is on your registration

Wrong. The only weight on my registration is my licensed weight which is the legal limit.

AND in the DMV database linked to the VIN for that vehicle.

Wrong again. If GCWR was a legal rating it would be on the door label.

Since the GCWR PROVIDED BY THE MANUFACTURER of that RAM is under 26k then I would have NO PROBLEM hauling that 14k trailer around there, here, or any where.

Like I said, good luck because that combination requires a CDL here.

 

[aczlan]

Yes, the manufacture of the truck(GVWR) + the manufacture of the trailer(s) (GVWR) = GCWR.

Ummm the Ford Motor Company disagrees with you as to the way they come up with the max GCWR.

GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating)
Weight specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a towing vehicle and its trailer. The sum of the loaded vehicle weight of the truck and trailer should not exceed the GCWR. GCWR = vehicle curb weight + payload + trailer weight + driver and passengers
Source: Ford Vehicle Glossary | The Official Site of Ford Vehicles | FordVehicles.com

Formatting mine. Other text can be found at the source listed.

Aaron Z

 

[Duffster]

Ummm the Ford Motor Company disagrees with you

Bold formatting mine. Other text can be gound at the source listed.

Aaron Z

It doesn't matter what Ford says, only the FMCSA as far as CDLs are concerned.

 

[Duffster]

AGAIN: GCWR IS NOT GVWR+GVWR.

Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds GVWR, towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a CMV and does the driver need a CDL?

If the total GVWR for the two trailers is at least 10,001 pounds, and the tractor’s GVWR is sufficient to produce a GCWR of at least 26,001 pounds

Interpretation for Part 383.5 Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


Hmmmmm.

 

[aczlan]

It doesn't matter what Ford says, only the FMCSA as far as CDLs are concerned.

As I read them, they are in complete agreement.
As I understand it, the manufacturer's GCWR RATING is the max total permissible weight of truck, trailer and anything in/on them

FMCSA:
Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) motor vehicle

Ford:
GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating)
Weight specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a towing vehicle and its trailer

Am I misunderstanding something here? The manufacturer says that their truck and any trailer behind it can legally weigh up to X pounds. That is your max GCWR. If the Manufacturer does not supply a GCWR rating, the DOT will give you one.
If you weight more than that rating and get caught, the officer will have fun writing you up.

Aaron Z

 

[Duffster]

As I read them, they are in complete agreement.
As I understand it, the manufacturer's GCWR RATING is the max total permissible weight of truck, trailer and anything in/on them



Am I misunderstanding something here? The manufacturer says that their truck and any trailer behind it can legally weigh up to X pounds. That is your max GCWR. If the Manufacturer does not supply a GCWR rating, the DOT will give you one.
If you weight more than that rating and get caught, the officer will have fun writing you up.

Aaron Z

You can see from my previous post that the FMCSA's interpretation of GCWR is GVWR + GVWR.

 

[aczlan]

You can see from my previous post that the FMCSA's interpretation of GCWR is GVWR + GVWR.

This one: Heavy Duty Pickup Shootout - Page 8 - TractorByNet.com?
Those examples show that they can use that method, however they also say that:

Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) vehicle. In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon.
Source: Part 383.5: Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and Part 390.5: Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

So, as I understand the above text, the manufacturer GCWR will be used if available. If that is not available, it will be determined as you describe (GVWR of truck+GVWR of the trailer)

Aaron Z

 

[Cat_Driver]

OK here's what I don't get. All manufactures have the latest computers, the latest CAD drawing software, the latest of everything YET all manufacturers come up short in various areas.

This has been going on for decades - how is that? How is it that one manufacturer can built a diesel truck that overheats from day one and is actually released to the public and the internet lights up with hundreds of people with the same overheating problem?

How is it that another manufacturer has a great engine but the tranny is garbage?

How is it that a manufacturer knows it has bad front end components yet still makes the truck.

I'm not bashing one manufacturer because they are all guilty. I mean come on, keep building components that work and redo the things that don't how hard is that, but nope, year after year truck A is better than truck B and truck B is better next year and now truck C is better than them all?

They say they test these trucks, well if they do how do they go out the door overheating or with bad front ends and trannies. Let me test a truck I'll tell you pretty quickly what will hold up and what won't.

Is it economics? They figure build a truck for all the grocery runs and then just apologize to the guy that drives on gravel roads and uses 4WD every day. After all the numbers are in favor of more people buying truck to get groceries that beat them up on country roads, I guess?