Hypothetical Towing Question

[CompactTractorFan]

OK, lets just say you don't want to spend money on a truck for your new 10,000 pound GVWR dump or equipment trailer that weighs 2,000 pounds empty. You have an existing large SUV with a tow rating of 9,000 pounds. What would be the right (and legal) way to do it?

1. You use "as is" and don't load over 7,000 pounds in the trailer.

OR

2. You "derate" the trailer to 9,000 pounds. (if this can be done)

This all came about when I started reading all peoples post in this forum, and then I started searching on the internet about towing laws.

 

[kebo]

Use as is, but I wouldn't get near the "7000" lbs of available payload. That's just me, ymmv though. And make dang sure the brakes on the trailer are working!!

All that aside, I have a difficult time understanding why you would get such a heavy duty dump trailer, but not budget/factor in a heavy duty truck to tow it with??

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Remember that this is just a hypothetical towing question. I was just saying it since you would have to probably go to a smaller (in size & weight) 7,000 pound GVWR. While a 10,000 pound GVWR trailer is just rated for 1,000 more pounds.

 

[Runner]

"1. You use "as is" and don't load over 7,000 pounds in the trailer.

OR

2. You "derate" the trailer to 9,000 pounds. (if this can be done)"

Maybe I'm missing the question, but to me, these both sound like the same thing. If you limit your payload to 7,000 lbs, you are, in effect, "derating" the trailer to a 9,000 lb trailer.

As long as you're not over the tow rating of the vehicle, the rating of the hitch or the rating of the trailer, I think you're good to go.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

That is why I asked, because some things I read on here made me think that not loading it to capacity would be illegal if the vehicle's tow rating was lower than the GVWR of the trailer.

 

[Diamondpilot]

That is why I asked, because some things I read on here made me think that not loading it to capacity would be illegal if the vehicle's tow rating was lower than the GVWR of the trailer.

Depends on the state. I would use it as is and load smartly. My uncle has towed his 14,000# dump trailer with his Expedition and now his 08 F-150 with no issues. He just limits his loads.

Chris

 

[SpringHollow]

I believe in my state, you can be pulling an empty 10,000 lb rated tractor with your 7,000 lb rated truck and get a ticket. You can have the "faceplate" replaced with one from the manufacturer for a lower rating. Some places you can get away with just registering it for a lower weight. Some places you can get away with doing nothing.

The random enforcement of these regulations is extremely frustrating.

Ken

 

[KeithInSpace]

We've discussed this previously. I did research in Virginia and established that there is no issue with purchasing and using a trailer with weight capabilities beyond those of your tow vehicle.

For me, I have an Expedition (which is probably what you have) and was faced with the decision of buying a 7k# trailer and leaving 2k# of capacity on the table or buying a 10k# trailer for $300 more and the only downside is the additional weight of the trailer itself. Of course, the additional weight of the trailer is more than offset by the additional load I can carry.

The important thing is that you operate to your GCVWR...the maximum permissible weight of your entire rig. I have to stay under 14,800# scaleable weight for the entire rig. When I go to pick up 3 tons of stone, I take everything out of my truck...tools, strollers, and other heavy items to do my best and stay under the GCVWR. And with 3 tons of stone, I'm within 200# either way, depending. If I'm over, it's usually because I'm carrying something else.

Personally, I think it is safer to carry the same load on an up-rated trailer as you are using a lower percentage of the trailer's capacity.

I actually asked the person at my DMV when I was registering the trailer if I could modify the "registered" capacity of the trailer. Her response was that I could not since they are compelled to type in the capacity provided on the Certificate of Origin (or the Title if you're buying used). The only way would be to have a factory-issued Certificate of Origin with the lower trailer rating for THAT trailer (VIN number and all).

So, as Chris said, load your limit. Not much can be said if you scale below your GCVWR.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Thanks for the replies! I was just using the SUV as an example. So does this apply to any vehicle/trailer?

 

[CompactTractorFan]

What if you have a car with a tow rating of 1,000 pounds and you get a trailer with a GVWR of 1,500 pounds that weighs 500 pounds and you haul 500 pounds or less. Would it be the same?

 

[Renze]

What if you have a car with a tow rating of 1,000 pounds and you get a trailer with a GVWR of 1,500 pounds that weighs 500 pounds and you haul 500 pounds or less. Would it be the same?

Where i live, you're not allowed to even tow an empty trailer with an allowed weight over the tow rating of the tow vehicle. They arent actively on the lookout for such misdemeanors, unless you really make it too crazy, e.g. towing a 3 axle wagon with a shopping trolley.

If the heavier trailer does have brakes, and the 1000 pound rated trailer not, it would not be the same. I love trailer brakes, too many idiots pulling in front of you these days

Lots of folks derate their caravan (the GVW on the trailer license papers) to make it legally towable with their family car. It can be rated back to manufacturers specs at any time, at a DOT station.

I run a 2.5 ton rated tandem with 1300kg axles behind my 1600kg tow rated car. My father ran 2 ton rated horse trailers behind cars with tow ratings from 1400 to 1800kg for 30 years without ever getting a ticket, even though its illegal to tow a trailer rated higher than the car.

When in an accident, all they can do is fine me for being overweight, but it wouldnt change a thing in the liability. (unless the ACTUAL trailer weight exceeds the tow rating by more than 20% or so)

 

[Diamondpilot]

What if you have a car with a tow rating of 1,000 pounds and you get a trailer with a GVWR of 1,500 pounds that weighs 500 pounds and you haul 500 pounds or less. Would it be the same?

Yes, it would be the same. I have asked this question to all 3 of my cop buddies. All three said its illegal here. All three also said they do not pull you over unless something else is amiss. If it looks dangerous, no lights, poor tie down job, POS truck pulling it, ect. Basically they let you slide if you are taking provisions to be safe. That is not how the courts, lawyers, and the insurance companies would look at it if a accident happened but thats a different subject.

They also told me the biggest one they see is stuff with no lights or plates. The main culprits are cement mixers, log splitters, and pig roasters. What brought this up was I made a customer a pig roaster. We put a 2" coupler on it and safety chains but no lights or plates. He said he does not pull folks over during daylight hours as long as everything else looks safe and he can clearly see the tail/brake/turn lights of the vehicle towing it.

Chris

 

[CompactTractorFan]

What about a Chevy Suburban 2500 which has a tow rating of 9,600 pounds? (that's only 400 pounds difference):confused3:

 

[newbury]

There have been MANY discussions on this - As Diamond and Keith tried to explain -
It DEPENDS on
THE LAW
THE LAW Enforcement
and probably your relationship with the law enforcement

and they all depend on your location.

 

[buck12]

There have been MANY discussions on this - As Diamond and Keith tried to explain -
It DEPENDS on
THE LAW
THE LAW Enforcement
and probably your relationship with the law enforcement

and they all depend on your location.

Well said. Come to MS and as long as you buy a tag and have working lights anything seems to go. Kind of scary some of the setups I see going down the road.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...of the setups I see going down the road.

I see the odd picture of a 1/2 ton truck towing a 28' travel trailer which is, itself, towing a 18' boat. It is my limited understanding that you can do that as long as the total length is under 65' or something like that.

We quip about chains vs. straps and towing a 10k# trailer with a truck rated for 9k#...I'd much rather that situation than having one of these mexican land trains rolling up on my on the interstate at 72 MPH...

 

[radioman]

why derate a trailer if you are less then the cdl requirement? usually its around 26001 lbs or more total combined weight. derating a trailer can be done at the local DMV. I just don't see the point though. What if you didnt forsee something in the future and you need to tow total 7k with trailer/cargo and got a truck that can tow 7k ? what do you do now since you "derated" hypothoeritcally for the 5k truck? I think your answers will rest in your local DMV office and DOT office, not from TBN'er across the country.

RANT: I have no clue why each state have thier own tweaks in the DOT rules, it should be more generalized to make easier for folks. I understand that texas flat areas is different then NYS with hills and mountains. But the weight, rating of trailers towing, etc really should be exactly the same at the all state DMV's, not what DOT says in general.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

OK, thanks for all the replies. (sorry if I got on anyone's nerves):ashamed:

I just posted this because I got confused after reading other threads about towing trailers with a GVWR over the tow rating of the vehicle.

 

[Soundguy]

there was a thread on selective enforcement of the myriad of hauling laws a while back.

shame on the fed and state govt's for making a quagmire out of it.

would be easier to just offer reciprocity so that what's legal in your state is legal in another while you are on your trip... at least that would cut down some of the BS.

soundguy

I believe in my state, you can be pulling an empty 10,000 lb rated tractor with your 7,000 lb rated truck and get a ticket. You can have the "faceplate" replaced with one from the manufacturer for a lower rating. Some places you can get away with just registering it for a lower weight. Some places you can get away with doing nothing.

The random enforcement of these regulations is extremely frustrating.

Ken

 

[Duffster]

A 10k or less GVWR trailer will never require a CDL, unless hauling hazmat.