Should i buy a toro?

[flyingdutch16]

Hey guys,

i have been looking at a toro. I found the time cutter Z.
Built for the Pro in You - Toro TimeCutter Z4200 Zero Turn Lawn Mowers - Riding Lawn Mower

Now my question is how many acres can it mow in 1 hour?

 

[Diamondpilot]

That class of mower is not meant for acres a hour. It is meant to mow your 1-2 acre place once a week.

A neighbor down the road bought a Cub Cadet similar to that one. The are mowing 6 acres a week. 2 axles broke, 2 new spindles this year, new transmission, numerous breaks in the cheap stamped steel deck that I have welded, a few belts. Anyway they have spent $2000 in repairs in the 3 years of owning a $3000 mower.

If you are planning on doing a lot of mowing, more than just your own yard, get a commercial unit like Ferris or Scag, even if its used.

Chris

 

[flyingdutch16]

well, all im gonna moy is 4 lawns which are mostly 1 to 2 acres.. so maybe this husqvarna is better
RZ4619 - Zero turn mowers

 

[tsteahr]

What makes you think the Husky is any different from the Toro? They are both home owner machines. I think Diamondpiolet is correct. If you are mowing 4 lawns for a total of around 6 acres on a ongoing basis (say weekly), odds are no homeowner machine is going to hold together.

 

[flyingdutch16]

okay i guess you guys are right, but keep in mind im 15 and have only so much to spend.

 

[Diamondpilot]

well, all im gonna moy is 4 lawns which are mostly 1 to 2 acres.. so maybe this husqvarna is better
RZ4619 - Zero turn mowers

Again, its a Home Owner Version. It will not hold up to 8 hours per week like you are talking. Get a commercial unit.

I love that you are 15 and getting off your AXX and doing something. The problem is these mower's will not hold up. Talk to you folks about financing a good used or even new commercial ZTR in the 60" cut range that will last you to college. Many have zero percent financing right now. It will pay for itself quickly and you will have something to sell when you are done with it. Your $2500 down payment will cover a good portion of the mower.

Trust me, my friend mows commercially and he started with a Dixon. It cost him $800 the second year for the clutch alone. He then went to commercial units and now uses a Ferris 3100. You can get a Ferris 500 with a 61" deck for around $6000. He charges $1 a minute so at $60 a hour and lets say 6 hours per week you will pay it off in no time. I have done all his maintenance for 6 years now so I know my way around these mowers. Each of his get about 10 hours per week use.

http://www.ferrisindustries.com/pages/mower.php?product_id=23

Good rule of thumb is if its sold at Lowes or Home Depot it will not hold up for anything other than a Home Owner use. The one exception to that is BADBOY mowers which sell the low end unit at TSC. It runs about $4600 but is 3 times the mower that the Toro or Husky you are looking at. Look at the features like suspension, fully welded decks not stamped, grease-able spindles, non sealed transmissions so you can change the fluid which is needed for high use like you plan, ect.


Chris

 

[flyingdutch16]

Again, its a Home Owner Version. It will not hold up to 8 hours per week like you are talking. Get a commercial unit.

I love that you are 15 and getting off your AXX and doing something. The problem is these mower's will not hold. Talk to you folks about financing a good used or even new commercial ZTR in the 60" cut range that will last you to college. It will pay for itself quickly and you will have something to sell when you are done with it. Your $2500 down payment will cover a good portion of the mower.

Trust me, my friend mows commercially and he started with a Dixon. It cost him $800 the second year for the clutch alone. He then went to commercial units and now uses a Ferris 3100. You can get a Ferris 500 with a 61" deck for around $6000. He charges $1 a minute so at $60 a hour and lets say 6 hours per week you will pay it off in no time.


Chris

Iknow youre right and all, but i cut the lawns for 35 a cut... so that might be a small problem

 

[flyingdutch16]

do you guys know a good site where they have used mowers in the philapdelphia area?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Iknow youre right and all, but i cut the lawns for 35 a cut... so that might be a small problem

You are working too cheap. That can be good and bad if you can get more business. Around here $1 a minute is the standard. With a good commercial ZTR in the 60" class 5 acres a hour can be done. My yard is 3 acres minus the house, drive, and barn and we do it in 40 minutes.

Here is the BADBOY I spoke of. Its a good starter unit.

Bad Boy 60 in. Zero-Turn Mower - 4457259 | Tractor Supply Company

I would check Craigs list and Ebay for used mowers. Also mower shops. Toro and Husky does make some good stuff but its going to be int the $6000 range. Look for brands like Scag, Ferris, Exmark, Dixi Chopper, Grass Hopper, ect.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

How would a John Deere Z445 be for starting out? It is a residential mower but I think it may be better built than many.

Its slightly better due to it having a Kawaski engine over the Briggs and the 54" deck but that is about it. $1000 of the price is the JD name. It still has the cheap junk trannys and the cheap stamped steel deck.

Chris

 

[flyingdutch16]

You are working too cheap. That can be good and bad if you can get more business. Around here $1 a minute is the standard. With a good commercial ZTR in the 60" class 5 acres a hour can be done. My yard is 3 acres minus the house, drive, and barn and we do it in 40 minutes.

Here is the BADBOY I spoke of. Its a good starter unit.

Bad Boy 60 in. Zero-Turn Mower - 4457259 | Tractor Supply Company

I would check Craigs list and Ebay for used mowers. Also mower shops. Toro and Husky does make some good stuff but its going to be int the $6000 range. Look for brands like Scag, Ferris, Exmark, Dixi Chopper, Grass Hopper, ect.

Chris

i guess if i start cutting for 40$ it would help more, but my budget right now is 2700 max.

And another thing, right now i cut 2 lawns around 2,3 acres in total every week with my craftsman lt2000 and its holding up pretty good, so thats why i thought a husqvarna would hold up pretty well with 6acres max

 

[flyingdutch16]

btw thanks for the ebay tip i found a exmark 2001 series for about 2700

2001 60' Exmark Lazer Zero Turn Mower - eBay (item 220645785019 end time Aug-29-10 05:43:38 PDT)

and a cub cadet
basically new
http://cgi.ebay.com/50-RZT-ZERO-TURN-CUB-CADET-MOWER-/200502697098?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eaee45c8a#shId

 

[Diamondpilot]

btw thanks for the ebay tip i found a exmark 2001 series for about 2700

2001 60' Exmark Lazer Zero Turn Mower - eBay (item 220645785019 end time Aug-29-10 05:43:38 PDT)

Be careful of something with that many hours. I would check the compression and then offer him $1800. I would go up to $2000 and not a penny more. That leaves you some money and room to make the repairs its going to need. Remember these things are expensive. The Cub Cadet my neighbor has the tranny alone is over $800 and it has 2. Spindles are $150, belts $45, ect.

If I were you I would finish out the year with what you have and buy over the winter or early spring.

In all actuality a $1200 lawn tractor will hold up better than a $2500 ZTR. Reason being lawn tractors have been around for 75 years and they pretty much have them perfected. ZTRs are 15 years old or so and while the commercial units are pretty much bullet proof the Home Owner versions are relatively new and getting them cheap and good has not yet happened. If they could get the decks better and the trannys figured out they would have something.

Chris

 

[flyingdutch16]

Be careful of something with that many hours. I would check the compression and then offer him $1800. I would go up to $2000 and not a penny more. That leaves you some money and room to make the repairs its going to need. Remember these things are expensive. The Cub Cadet my neighbor has the tranny alone is over $800 and it has 2. Spindles are $150, belts $45, ect.

If I were you I would finish out the year with what you have and buy over the winter or early spring.

In all actuality a $1200 lawn tractor will hold up better than a $2500 ZTR. Reason being lawn tractors have been around for 75 years and they pretty much have them perfected. ZTRs are 15 years old or so and while the commercial units are pretty much bullet proof the Home Owner versions are relatively new and getting them cheap and good has not yet happened. If they could get the decks better and the trannys figured out they would have something.

Chris

your right about that price for the exmark.... it looks a little "shady".

but the cub cadet look pretty good for its price. It rather buy that one for a little less, use it for one season make enough money, sell the mower, and the upgrade to a commercial mower.

 

[BleedGreen]

Its slightly better due to it having a Kawaski engine over the Briggs and the 54" deck but that is about it. $1000 of the price is the JD name. It still has the cheap junk trannys and the cheap stamped steel deck.

Chris

Cheap junk trannys??? Really??? Without going to deere.com, or anywhere else, tell me what "trannys" are used in the John Deere Z400 series line. I'll wait...




BTW, they are not even "trannys" on the Deere - although the Bad Boy you are pushing does have two integrated hydro transaxles int it - maybe you are confusing the two? Oh, and don't forget the Kohler Courage engine in that Bad Boy - everyone loves that Courage engine! :confused2:

While the Z400 series are not commercial grade - they are pretty close... Do your homework - the frame is the same as the old 727A and 737A Commercial grade Deere ZTs. The drive system is the same as well - a Kanzaki DUP10 (10cc Dual Unitized Pump) with Parker wheel motors. WOW! What a cheap tranny that is!!! And forget the $1,000.00 green paint!!!

So... We have a Bad Boy BBZ6027KO from TSC for $4,999.00 with a 27hp Kohler Courage engine, Two integrated hydrostatic transaxles (made by ?) and a 60" hand-welded mower deck and no dealer service.
vs
A John Deere Z445 / 54HC from a dealer with a list price of $5,299.00 (we sell them for less) with a 25hp Kawasaki engine, a Kanzaki 10cc Dual Unitized Pump with Parker wheel motors and a 9 gauge stamped 54HC mower deck. Plus dealer service.

Please do some homework before you bash something... 1k more because it says Deere? Cheap junk trannys? I don't think so.

 

[RoyJackson]

okay i guess you guys are right, but keep in mind im 15 and have only so much to spend.

For the little bit of mowing you're going to do (less then 8 acres spread out over a week), you'd be fine with a self propelled walk behind mower for $500 or less (Snapper makes a nice one). You really don't need a ZTR.
Heck...you're 15! Be a man, not a punk...

 

[timswi]

At risk of wandering into this bar fight...My brother bought a Lowes (forget which) ZTR 3 years ago and cuts his 2 acres around twice a week (he's nuts). He has had no problems whatsoever with it.

Keep in mind that "pro" landscapers beat their machinery to death..minutes are money and they treat the equipment accordingly. Just watch one mow for 15 minutes sometime.

If you take it easy and maintain it, i don't see why you couldn't easly squeeze 4 years out of a big box ZTR.

If you business expands, first good for you, then make the commercial investment.

Just my opinion.

 

[RalphVa]

The main thing I'd check on ANY mowing machine is how easy it is to get the blades off and on to sharpen them.

We had a ZTR mower that I had our church buy in NJ. I could literally take all 3 blades off in 5 minutes from it. I'd take them home, sharpen and then come back my next trip and spend about 5 minutes putting them back on. It was a Scag.

Many of the cheap mowers require all kinds of shenanigans to get to the blades.

Why are you routinely mowing more than 1/2 acre? Let it grow up and bush hog it once/yr or once every 2 or 3 years.

 

[RoyJackson]

Why are you routinely mowing more than 1/2 acre? Let it grow up and bush hog it once/yr or once every 2 or 3 years.

He's looking to make a few dollars mowing lawns, Ralph...

 

[Bird]

Dutch, my nearest Kubota dealer naturally thinks the Kubota ZTR is the best diesel ZTR and Scag (which he also sells) is the best gasoline powered. But I think he could very well be right.

Now that said, I'll readily concede the fact that the guys who are recommending against the "homeowner" level Toro know more about them than I do. However, I used to have the cheapest ZTR Toro made, and because of my experience with that mower, plus my local Toro/Stihl dealer, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the TimeCutter Z at all myself.