Diesel pickups?

[Dmace]

Originally I wanted a Cummins. After a year of reading I've come to the conclusion the only relatively safe bet is a 7.3L Ford.

I don't know what you were reading but the Cummins is THE most reliable, most dependable, longest lasting diesel engine ever put in a pickup truck.
Plus the huge 7.3l made about 250hp/520lb.ft vs the much smaller 5.9l making 305hp/555lb.ft. The 7.3l powerstroke is a pig on diesel too.

 

[Hawghauler]

I can see right here that diesels are more than I want to spend my time, energy or money on.
Thanks for your time guys.
Rob

Depending on your age, a diesel can last you a lifetime. As you live in NY where the roads are salted, a lifetime for a truck is 10 years on the body (give or take). Rust just gets it sooner than later. Sucks for you, but the north is a great place for southerners to find barely broken in drivetrains for their rust-free bodies. If you want to keep the price down by buying used, I would recommend a GM gasser with a NV4500 standard tranny and a 410 rearend. Not great on gas, but will pull hard and the tranny is one of the best. You can also find 8.1 liter bigblocks with the alison tranny. The 8.1 or 496 is a strong guzzler that provides tire shredding torque but does tend to use oil right out of the factory. The alison is one of the best auto trans made bar none. If you go small block I prefer the 5.7 or 6.0. The 5.3 is a good runner too. I have a 94 CK3500 with the 454 and a NV4500 with 410 gears. All the torque you could want down low, but underpowered at higher speeds. You can tow a load effortlessly up to 55mph. It just isn't designed for speed. Mine has 40K on it and not a spec of rust, looks brand new. I love the older squared body style. If I wanted it to be other than it is I'd drop a crate 502 in it or build the 454 that sits in it now. The build would entail throwing everyting away but the block and crank. Crime with such low miles.

 

[Rob-D]

Depending on your age, a diesel can last you a lifetime. As you live in NY where the roads are salted, a lifetime for a truck is 10 years on the body (give or take). Rust just gets it sooner than later. Sucks for you, but the north is a great place for southerners to find barely broken in drivetrains for their rust-free bodies. If you want to keep the price down by buying used, I would recommend a GM gasser with a NV4500 standard tranny and a 410 rearend. Not great on gas, but will pull hard and the tranny is one of the best. You can also find 8.1 liter bigblocks with the alison tranny. The 8.1 or 496 is a strong guzzler that provides tire shredding torque but does tend to use oil right out of the factory. The alison is one of the best auto trans made bar none. If you go small block I prefer the 5.7 or 6.0. The 5.3 is a good runner too. I have a 94 CK3500 with the 454 and a NV4500 with 410 gears. All the torque you could want down low, but underpowered at higher speeds. You can tow a load effortlessly up to 55mph. It just isn't designed for speed. Mine has 40K on it and not a spec of rust, looks brand new. I love the older squared body style. If I wanted it to be other than it is I'd drop a crate 502 in it or build the 454 that sits in it now. The build would entail throwing everyting away but the block and crank. Crime with such low miles.

Hawg,
Thanks for the info but I really don't have a need for a big truck aside from the RV angle. It looks like now I'm going to look at Class C motor homes with an integral engine.
While I would like to be able to truck around the tractor when my friends need a hand it isn't imperative and 410 gears might give me lots of low end guts but I'd have to park it at the gas pump.
The salt roads here are brutal and ten years might even be stretching it especially considering that every summer the town tars and stones the roads so you get the pleasure of driving over sand paper as the stones pelt your undercarriage!
I still have the old F150 long bed beater that gets us around when we don't need 4WD and it does 90% of what we need at this point.

I can get a decent Class C used RV for 25k or less and be done with it. Life at this point is making less complex decisions. I don't need a 50 year roof, I won't live that long!

Rob

 

[Hawghauler]

A little trick for the rust. I used to use a suction sand blast wand (about 25 bucks) in a jug of bar and chain oil. I'd put a smidgen of kerosene to cut the oil making it easier to spray (heat might help too) and sprayed inside the doors and underneath, and anything else I could reach. I don't know what is in bar and chain oil, but it was quite a good rust proofer. It sticks surprizingly well and I doubt I contributed too much to the demise of endangered species. I had folks tell me it would deteriorate the rubber body mounts and the like. Not sure, never had rubber lose a race with rust.

 

[Rob-D]

A little trick for the rust. I used to use a suction sand blast wand (about 25 bucks) in a jug of bar and chain oil. I'd put a smidgen of kerosene to cut the oil making it easier to spray (heat might help too) and sprayed inside the doors and underneath, and anything else I could reach. I don't know what is in bar and chain oil, but it was quite a good rust proofer. It sticks surprizingly well and I doubt I contributed too much to the demise of endangered species. I had folks tell me it would deteriorate the rubber body mounts and the like. Not sure, never had rubber lose a race with rust.

Thanks for the info.
Rob

 

[psj12]

The best diesel pickup would be a late model ford with a 24 valve cummins turbo and an allison transmission. Now all we need to do is get all the maker together to build it.

 

[Haoleguy]

As mentioned before I would not purchase a truck to run a tow/carry load near it's limits. I have an older F150 that I pulled a 12in Vermeer wood chipper with a few times and it was tough to get it started and stopped...won't do that anymore. My F150 is about to be replaced and my focus is more towards more towing capacity for rental equipment and pulling a dump trailer(yet to be purchased...struggling vs dumptruck). One option I'm considering is a used Ford with gas V10. I think for near $20K you should be able to get low mileage F350 V10 that is in the 2003-05 vintage. One thing about your location is that I assume you may have many hills to go up and down no matter which way you turn. Others can comment better than I about the V10s ability to deal with hilly environs.

 

[Dargo]

One option I'm considering is a used Ford with gas V10. I think for near $20K you should be able to get low mileage F350 V10 that is in the 2003-05 vintage. One thing about your location is that I assume you may have many hills to go up and down no matter which way you turn. Others can comment better than I about the V10s ability to deal with hilly environs.

You can probably get one for less than that. I had a V10 in an Excursion and I wish I'd never sold it! By far, it was the smoothest running and quietest large engine I've ever owned. It will do a lot of down-shifting on interstate grades towing, but seems to have adequate power. Running empty, I actually averaged the exact same MPG in my V10 Excursion as I did with my 5.9 Durango, which was much smaller.

When I bought my V10 Excursion, the first thing I did was change the plugs and put anti-seize on the threads. The originals were already tight at 50k miles. If I'd waited until the 100k, like the manual stated, I think I would have had some stripped threads. After that, I changed the oil, oil filter and air filter and that's it in 5 years of driving. I'm trying to think of what all I can sell to get another. The problem is that the Excursions are starting to get a lot of miles on them.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well I stand corrected on that one. Never dreamed they would do that.

What do I call a 1 ton truck rated for towing 21K lbs? INSANE!!! I never imagined the numbers game would get this far. That's just downright nuts IMHO. I have pulled 10K+ myself but 20K+ with a pickup?

Its done every day around here. Been doing it for 11 years with my Fords.

Chris

 

[newbury]

I don't know what you were reading but the Cummins is THE most reliable, most dependable, longest lasting diesel engine ever put in a pickup truck.
Plus the huge 7.3l made about 250hp/520lb.ft vs the much smaller 5.9l making 305hp/555lb.ft. The 7.3l powerstroke is a pig on diesel too.

The Cummins may be good, but in my readings and my BIL's experience the rest of the truck is prone to problems. My 7.3 L Ford customized MaxiVan has had next to 0 problems other than a blown waterpump at about 200K and still gets about 16mpg loaded on a trip.
However I agree that:

The best diesel pickup would be a late model ford with a 24 valve cummins turbo and an allison transmission. Now all we need to do is get all the maker together to build it.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree with others that there is no perfect truck but the late model 5.9L Cummins is hands down the best engine to date in a diesel truck. The problem is its in a Dodge. It just seems they can not get the rest right like Ford and GM. Yes, Ford has its weak spots also like the the front end stuff and the GM Chassis was really lacking for many years.

I know all this stuff is changing and the last few years of all 3 have addressed many of the issues, especially GM with the Chassis and Dodge with the tranny. Only time will tell.

As for the 6.0 being a POS I could not disagree more. I have 2 and both are at nearly 100,000 miles with zero issues except for a faulty fuel gauge on my 06 F-350. Not a wrench put on either truck. Maybe I am lucky but I have nearly a dozen friends with them and the most major issue has been a EGR valve on a early one. I can not say the same for the 3 guys I know with Dodges and the 2 plus the one I had that had the Duramax. The GM has had by far the most engine and driveline related issues out of my group of friends and associates. The Dodge issues have not be engine related but tranny and other components for the truck that were just not up to the task but the Cummins has been bullet proof.

I would go out and buy a Cummins today if I could get it in another package. Now maybe I will be convinced that Dodge can make a truck that will fit me and hold up to how I use them but after my 03 2500 it will be a hard sell. I have not written them off like I have GM but it will take a lot to draw me away from Ford for HD diesel trucks. 3 down and zero mechanical issues have made me a believer. I would still have my 99 7.3 F-350 4x4 if it was not for that deer.

Chris

 

[jfox]

Don't knock a diesel if you have owned one.
I believe the maintenance costs are less. I run 10,000 oci with synthetic oil.

7 years ago, my BIL asked me to drive to south florida to help him move.
He had a 94 chevy 1/2 ton. He pulled a 20 ft enclosed trailer from Illinois and got 8 mpg. Trailer was empty and he drove it 55 mph.
I had my 02 dodge, drove down there and got 22 several tanks--back to back.
I pulled the trailer home for him, loaded with furniture. I was gussing a good 8,000 to 9,000 lbs. He came home with no trailer. we ran 70 all the way--where possible.
When we calculated fuel costs/ mileage on the trip home, he got 9.9 and I got 14.4.!!
Remember, I had the trailer!!!
This truck is still in great shape with 166,000 miles. doors,windows are fine no rattles. Front brakes changed once, rear are still fine.
yes, the injection pump was changed--it failed. The trans was slipping too, but it is not expensive to correct a dodge aut trans. It is the most capable auto out there. The allison isn't the best and the ford isn't either. i wish the dodge had a good 5 speed aut for mine though.
I get 15-18 every day driving with it empty.
i guess we all have opinions!!!!
I switched 25 years ago from chevy. Too many costs to keep them running.

 

[Ryan03]

Don't knock a diesel if you have owned one.
I believe the maintenance costs are less. I run 10,000 oci with synthetic oil.

The trans was slipping too, but it is not expensive to correct a dodge aut trans. It is the most capable auto out there. The allison isn't the best and the ford isn't either.

The stock 4spd auto dodge trans will prematurely fail when the 24 valve Cummins is chipped up to what a STOCK LB7 DMAX or 6.0 PSD makes. My BIL just swapped in his 3rd one in 6 years in his 98 CTD 2wd Ram, the first two were factory units, the latest one has the full ATS upgrade including a triple disc converter. It was anything but cheap, $3700.00, and we R&R it ourselves.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Dodge has the most capable auto trans??? I have heard it all now.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

The stock 4spd auto dodge trans will prematurely fail when the 24 valve Cummins is chipped up to what a STOCK LB7 DMAX or 6.0 PSD makes.

What is with the people on this board comparing Dodge RAM trucks with other trucks that are 5-10 years newer than it. Is it that far ahead of the competition...?
Wow, you mean the 1998 Dodge RAM diesel (230hp/400lb.ft tq) that was still using a 4 year old transmission design can't hold the same amount of power that a 2005+ truck can at around 400hp/650lb.ft tq. Gee, what a piece of crap...
In comparison, I bet that Cummins would absolutely destroy the Ford E4OD or the GM 4L80E of the same era at stock horsepower let alone chipped. This statement is completely ridiculous...
My stock 94 F-350 non-turbo 7.3l diesel was already slipping at 65k miles with that E4OD tranny that is unless the O/D light was blinking causing it to shift hard in limp mode.

 

[Ryan03]

What is with the people on this board comparing Dodge RAM trucks with other trucks that are 5-10 years newer than it. Is it that far ahead of the competition...?
Wow, you mean the 1998 Dodge RAM diesel (230hp/400lb.ft tq) that was still using a 4 year old transmission design can't hold the same amount of power that a 2005+ truck can at around 400hp/650lb.ft tq. Gee, what a piece of crap...
In comparison, I bet that Cummins would absolutely destroy the Ford E4OD or the GM 4L80E of the same era at stock horsepower let alone chipped. This statement is completely ridiculous...
My stock 94 F-350 non-turbo 7.3l diesel was already slipping at 65k miles with that E4OD tranny that is unless the O/D light was blinking causing it to shift hard in limp mode.

I suggest you read JFox's comment before you go off on your next rant. This is where the initial comparason of the "old" Dodge trans was made to the newer GM Allison and Ford transmission. If you read my post again, you will see I clearly wrote LB7, which was never offered in the 2005 model year, the LB7 was only available from 2002 to 2004, and the HP was 300, and torque was 520 lb. ft., not 400hp and 650lb ft as you implied.

 

[Dmace]

I suggest you read JFox's comment before you go off on your next rant. This is where the initial comparason of the "old" Dodge trans was made to the newer GM Allison and Ford transmission. If you read my post again, you will see I clearly wrote LB7, which was never offered in the 2005 model year, the LB7 was only available from 2002 to 2004, and the HP was 300, and torque was 520 lb. ft., not 400hp and 650lb ft as you implied.

I don't care what JFox is comparing his transmission to. My reply was to your message not his, that's why I quoted it. You still seem to think that the transmission in a 1998 pickup truck should be able to handle the same power that a 3-6 year newer model truck produces. You are still talking about adding around 100HP and 100LB.FT. to a stock transmission from 1998. The 6.0l PSD makes 325hp/570lb.ft. so you are still talking about a 100 hp increase and a 170 lb.ft. increase in tq. Once again, try that on the GM or Ford transmissions from that era and see what happens...

 

[catskinner]

The best diesel pickup would be a late model ford with a 24 valve cummins turbo and an allison transmission. Now all we need to do is get all the maker together to build it.

Thats the winner.

 

[catskinner]

As mentioned before I would not purchase a truck to run a tow/carry load near it's limits. I have an older F150 that I pulled a 12in Vermeer wood chipper with a few times and it was tough to get it started and stopped...won't do that anymore. My F150 is about to be replaced and my focus is more towards more towing capacity for rental equipment and pulling a dump trailer(yet to be purchased...struggling vs dumptruck). One option I'm considering is a used Ford with gas V10. I think for near $20K you should be able to get low mileage F350 V10 that is in the 2003-05 vintage. One thing about your location is that I assume you may have many hills to go up and down no matter which way you turn. Others can comment better than I about the V10s ability to deal with hilly environs.

I like the dump trailer, lower plates no insurance, use the truck for other things.

 

[Dargo]

The 6.0l PSD makes 325hp/570lb.ft. so you are still talking about a 100 hp increase and a 170 lb.ft. increase in tq. Once again, try that on the GM or Ford transmissions from that era and see what happens...

Oh, gosh no. That would never be enough for what I want. I've gone a lot larger increase than that.