Oil & Fuel Stabil in gas mix

[Oldstuff]

I have a 1963 Ford 2000 tractor with a gas engine that I use once every 6 to 8 weeks and when I do use it I put anywhere from 2 to 4 hours on it. In between the times I use it I leave the tank full of gas and the gas has had Stabil added. Up until yesterday I have had no trouble starting it and it always runs just fine. Yesterday it would not start, checked and I had spark so I took the gas line off the card and gas was coming from the tank just fine and it also smelled like good gas. I took the carb off and lifted the top off to look into the float bowl area and there was no gas, the float was hanging down but the needle valve was up in the shutoff position. I very gently touched the needle valve with a screwdriver and it dropped down. So I took off the float and looked into the seat area where the needle seat is and all looked well and clean. Blew it out and put it together and it runs as usual. As easy as the needle valve dropped down I am assuming I could have probably tapped on the side of the carb without removing it and it may have dropped down and it would have filled the bowl with gas and would have started.
I am thinking about using more Stabil in my gas mix since I am assuming maybe the gas was beginning to deteriorate? What do you think. Will also start to add fuel injector/carb cleaner in my mix, is this a good idea?

Thanks for the help- Oldstuff

 

[bigdad]

I just talked to a vender last week that does all of our small engine and chain saw service about this very subject. I had heard that Stabil wasn't that great and that the Briggs and Stratton equivilant was better. Yeah yeah.......

The Gent that I talked to said that extreme heat is the biggest villan as far as fuel decay and that all of the additives in fuel now doesn't hold up very well to heat.

I have also heard that the alcohol in some gas is hard on plastics and diaphrams. I have heard that high octane 93 octane gas is the best for power tools.

This has really become a problem especially in the surge of emergency generator ownership. I am anxious to hear what others have to say.......

 

[clemsonfor]

Maybe a half dose of seafoam as well. As long as you use the label rate on stabil your fine. If i have a carb that i know is getting fuel pumped to it or flowing to it i will always wack it with a screwdriver handle. This is kind of common and an old mechanics trick it just gets stuck that rubber needle in the seat. Not a problem just cause it wasent used in a while. Just remebler the trick. If that dosent work a shot of (lower pressure of course) compressed air will also dislodge that needle if it is going to go.

-Nate

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Best for long term storage is avgas. Yep, sneak out to a rural airport and get you some...Fair warning, You're own your own tho, as I don't believe most airports sell to a customer with a can. Probably cuz they don't have road taxes on it.

It just doesn't varnish like the crap we burn in our cars.

 

[bp fick]

Biggest problems we have seen with "older" gas or stored gas in the last few years is that gas simply isn't formulated the way it was in the past. Boutique blends for specific EPA designated zones, methanol pushed for questionable reasons and so forth. There aren't great answers anymore, only "the best we can do" answers.

 

[whistlepig]

Stabil has a shelf life too. If you are not completely emptying your tank before the shelf life of the Stabil and the gas expires I could see where the left over stuff could cause problems.

 

[Deadman]

Best answer is leave only a small amount of old gas in it. Bring a gas can full of fresh fuel when you go to mow. Only dump in what you need for gas. then dump the extra fresh gas in your car, so it gets burned before it rots. I doubt gas is any good after a month, the new stuff is just garbage.

 

[Oldstuff]

Deadman and others that have replied, I really appreciate your ideas. I have been leaving the tank full of gas and Stabil mix as I have always understood that is the best way to prevent the tank from internal rusting- is this accurate or not? I did run out and get some Seafoam since my last post but it will be late August before I am going to be at the tractor since it is 160 miles from my home.

Oldstuff

 

[CurlyDave]

I use a double dose of Stabil and it has always worked for me. Always use premium fuel in my small engines. After about a year of storage, I put the gas with a double dose of Stabil in my truck and start again.

 

[clemsonfor]

Can you cut the fuel off to the carb and run it dry before storage? This will help keep any of the gaskets from breaking down from the ethonol, but if you have an old cork or something else float it may have ill effects. A plastic of composit one will not matter. I would keep the tank full of fuel to keep condensation down wich will put water in the fuel as well as rust metal tanks. The ethonol in fuel will suspend the water in the fuel for burnoff the problem is that this lowers the octane and helps lead to the fuel breakdown which can cause lowoctane situations on the older fuel with cause preignition or detination and hot temps and blown pistons and heads etc. I would get the ethonol Stabil (blue color) if you have to get the ethonol fuel in your area. In my area i can seek out certain stations with all pure gas and some that have pure gas in just the premium grade. Basically my long wordy explination means i can still buy 100% oil based petrolium fuel in the 93 octane at a few stations around here. It may not be as good as time gas based on new additives etc, but still pure gas.

-NAte

 

[Deadman]

I don't see why there should be condensation, unless the storage conditions are not favorable. I've never had condensation issues, and I always keep my tanks near empty when storing, because I don't want to run my stuff on rotted-down low octane fuel. Even if it does have stabil in it, it still loses some of the octane. I dump the old fuel in spring, before I run the equipment, and no way do I put it in any car or truck. that old fuel could contaminate the O2 sensors.

 

[captaincrab55]

I have heard that high octane 93 octane gas is the best for power tools.

Just Saturday. I ask a Certified Boat Motor Mechanic about using 93 octane gas in my boat motor that has less then 50 hours of use... His answer was, "Only use the octane recommended by the OEM and 93 octane used in a vented tank causes more water"... He did give me the name of a product that will allow the water to pass with the gas...

 

[whistlepig]

Deadman and others that have replied, I really appreciate your ideas. I have been leaving the tank full of gas and Stabil mix as I have always understood that is the best way to prevent the tank from internal rusting- is this accurate or not? I did run out and get some Seafoam since my last post but it will be late August before I am going to be at the tractor since it is 160 miles from my home.

Oldstuff

The storing of gas with Stabil is a hassle. I only do it for my home backup generator. I treat 20 gallons for a year and at the end of that year all this gas gets dumped in the trucks. What's in the generator is completely drained to the last drop. I even drain the carb on the generator. Then I buy fresh gas and treat it with fresh Stabil. Good to go for another year.

 

[bigdad]

I knew this would be interesting!

 

[Skyco]

"Only use the octane recommended by the OEM and 93 octane used in a vented tank causes more water"....

I'd like to see the reasoning behind that one:laughing:

 

[captaincrab55]

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincrab55 View Post
"Only use the octane recommended by the OEM and 93 octane used in a vented tank causes more water"....
===========================================================

I'd like to see the reasoning behind that one:laughing:

Not sure what was so funny, but in Maryland they put 10% Ethanol in gas...

 

[Oldstuff]

Deadman- All my life I have been warned of condensation in a gas tank, while I can't prove it I assume it is becasue as the metal warms up the condensation forms. Anytime metal changes from cold to hot in a somewhat short time period the condensation forms. As an example, I have been on many hunts where I have came into a warm tent or camper with a cold rifle and condensation will form rapidly on the metal parts of the rifle. I assume that in the case of the gas tank that the tractor has sat overnight and the metal has had 8 or so hours to cool from the previous day- then the sun rises and heats the metal up in a shorter time period and some condensation forms. Plus, some gas may have a small amount of moisture in it when you buy it.
Now, my tractor is stored in a metal building so I would think this would reduce the amount of moisture and I have been using Heet for that purpose. But my original question was about gas degrading and how to prevent that degradation. I think all of everyones ideas sound good, I will probably call Stabil and see what they think about increasing their recommended ratio of gas to Stabil. I will post back with their comments.

Thanks- Oldstuff

 

[shinnlinger]

The problem is the virtually all gas these days, 93 octane included is now 10% ethanol and that absorbs moisture and that creates problems. If you can get Av gas, that would be a solution.

Additives can help, but shutting off the petcock and running the motor dry is probably not a terrible idea. That said, I wonder if your sticking float is more of a fluke, one time old tractor thing than anything else

I have heard the active ingredient in stabilizers is xylene and some claim a mix of 2 oz xylene(stabilizer), 2 oz beauty shop acetone (not hardware stuff, for atomization) and 2 oz of synthetic motor oil (for lubrication) is very good for both gas a diesel engines. I have used this in my diesels to replace the sulphur and seen some performance and efficiency gains.

 

[Deadman]

ya, I forget you guys store things in non-insulated buildings. Living in Wisconsin, everything gets heavily insulated, and I assume everyones stuff is. In a metal shed, i'm sure condensation could happen, because temps change so much.

 

[Ordite]

Oldstuff,

I have a 1965 International 504. I don't always use it on a frequent basis. It too has a sticky needle valve. It usually starts quickly but will run for a couple minutes and then stop. I have learned that a couple raps on the side of the carburetor before startup takes care of this problem. I don't use any gasoline additives and seem to get by okay even when a couple months go by between startups.