got fordf159-maybe part of it made in us,honda car maybe part of it assmbled in us, a toyota that is 14 years old,doubt if any of it was made in us,a kioti tractor,3 echo saws and two echo trimmers,made in canada I think,toshiba and sony tv,etc etc,guess you could say for me its not important.
How Important is Made in the USA?
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mjncad
Super Member
YES get it made in USA. I'll pay 10% more, especially if you include the shiny foil USA flag label on a nice paint job!!!!
Just make sure the foil flag wasn't made in China.
Well put.
If the tractors are able to be shipped in a container, then shipping becomes negligible. I was watching a show on one of the cable networks about container shipping. It is so efficient that on average container shipping adds 1/2 of 1% to the cost of an item. If they are not able to be container shipped, then I don't know what the shipping costs are; but cars are shipped all over the world in car-carrier ships that lowers the cost significantly.
The reason for lighter weight is to save on materials, which becomes an easily controlled cost saver to manufacturers. Before modern CAE (Computer Aided Engineering) software, engineers over-engineered an item to be safe. Now the computer allows them to get closer to the fine line of safe and unsafe.
Well put.
schmism
Super Member
In a world were walmart rules as king.... i highly doubt your increase price in order to put 100% made in USA on the side will fly.
If i can get 80% the quality for 80% the price.... thats what im going with. 9 times out of 10 im never useing that last 20% in quality anyway.
But take my input with a grain of salt as i *NEVER buy brand new implements anyway...
If i can get 80% the quality for 80% the price.... thats what im going with. 9 times out of 10 im never useing that last 20% in quality anyway.
But take my input with a grain of salt as i *NEVER buy brand new implements anyway...
Builder
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LOL
Disagree. When a company holds board meetings, they discuss any/all options for cutting costs. I remember when either Dodge or Ford opted to put a small plastic check valve ball in their automatic transmissions that saved them about $1 per transmission over a steel check valve ball. However, they sold over 1 million of them per year. That converts to a 1 million/yr cost savings. Therefore the plastic ball was used. If a tractor company saves 1% on a 30K tractor in shipping, that's $300/unit. If they're a company like Kubota that sells tens of thousands, thats' $3 million dollars saved. So yes, i would believe they would lighten them to save on shipping. It's also the reason tractors are shipped without wheels, tires, loaders, etc and then prepped here. It saves on shipping weight and size, too!
I like the old "over-engineered" way better.
BeeferMan
Gold Member
When I watch a old NH hay baler run I am in awe of the quality in construction and design that have that piece of machinery cranking out bale, bale, bale - after 30, 40, 50 years and who knows how many 10's or 100's of thousands of bales.
On the other hand some of the biggest junk I've ever bought was "Made in the USA" by people who quite obviously really didn't give a crap about what they were building.
I can remember lots of times looking a something I bought and saying to myself "I should have paid some more and got the better one", but I can't ever remember saying "I wish I had spent less, I really don't need anything this good..."
So within reason, my priorities are - quality, parts availability, price - in that order.
On the other hand some of the biggest junk I've ever bought was "Made in the USA" by people who quite obviously really didn't give a crap about what they were building.
I can remember lots of times looking a something I bought and saying to myself "I should have paid some more and got the better one", but I can't ever remember saying "I wish I had spent less, I really don't need anything this good..."
So within reason, my priorities are - quality, parts availability, price - in that order.
merrickvilleguy
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ultimately comes to ROI for me ... if the lost work/repair cost/hassle/etc from a lower cost item outweighs the difference in price, I'll pay the extra. That being said, if the price is negligible, I'll buy local over imports any day, given my customers are also my vendors, and keeping them employed means I can sell them stuff. (Not saying I am keeping them employed on my own, but, if everyone else does the same thing it adds up)
dcyrilc
Super Member
I'll pay more for a superior product...not necessilarily American. Same price, same quality...I'll take American/Canadian over forein. But then, I've never found much use for low quality tools either.
I buy what's best for my dollar. I don't care where it's made. I work for a Swiss company, I'm not about to quit becuse they're foreigners. Do what's best for your business, build a good product at a price point where you can sell, and take care of your customers.
Builder
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I see the same thing. IH, Deere, NH, etc. old, heavy farm machinery actually run longer than cheaper pieces bought more recently that went belly up and the old machinery is STILL running, the newer pieces are scrapped or sold.
I still do that, too. Many times I have bought an inferior product only to save a mere 10-20%. I wish I didn't do that, but still do sometimes.
i'd be happy with a completely: "made in north america" product. aside from putting mayonnaise on french fries, our neighbors to the north of the border are pretty similar to us, and i'd hate to make any decisions that would cut them out, since they are such close neighbors.
i worked in steel fabrication for many years, and a large portion of small hot rolled shapes (the sizes used in small farm equipment, trailers, etc.) used to be rolled in canadian mini-mills. i'm not sure if that is still the case. i remember working jobs where we required domestic material only, so we were unable to use the canadian product, even though it was completely up to our standards.
i'm not one to want to place blame or complain about quality, but most people will agree that the quality of inexpensive metal products being imported from asia is not as good as we'd like to see. that's really not the case with canadian products. they're a nation very similar to ours. same language for the most part, similar lifestyles, industry, standard of living, etc. i live in a border state so i see a lot of people coming in to shop here, so i'd like to think that while we want to keep things closer to home, canada is close enough to be included. i have also worked in mexico in the past, and i can't say the same. crossing that border does put you in a different world.
i worked in steel fabrication for many years, and a large portion of small hot rolled shapes (the sizes used in small farm equipment, trailers, etc.) used to be rolled in canadian mini-mills. i'm not sure if that is still the case. i remember working jobs where we required domestic material only, so we were unable to use the canadian product, even though it was completely up to our standards.
i'm not one to want to place blame or complain about quality, but most people will agree that the quality of inexpensive metal products being imported from asia is not as good as we'd like to see. that's really not the case with canadian products. they're a nation very similar to ours. same language for the most part, similar lifestyles, industry, standard of living, etc. i live in a border state so i see a lot of people coming in to shop here, so i'd like to think that while we want to keep things closer to home, canada is close enough to be included. i have also worked in mexico in the past, and i can't say the same. crossing that border does put you in a different world.
sweettractors
Advertiser
You make a good point. If I buy a implement and pay 10 % more and it is made in the uSA, I would like to know where the basic ingredient comes from? Asia, No thanks. Canada, Germany or USA is fine by me. Ken Sweet
rmully
Gold Member
The biggest problem is parts. There are many Chinese implements around at good prices but if it breaks and the dealer does not have it in stock you are SOL for a long time or pay dearly for the part to be expressed over. Looks good but I would not take a chance. Italy is the worst, you get the part when they get around to it.
Diamondpilot
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Would I pay 10% more? Yes. The issue is the prices I see around here on implements is usually 40% or more. Case in point I needed a new RFM. My first one, King Kutter made in America was junk. I had it 3 years and put $800 in replacement parts into it. 3 years and $800 on a mower that was just over $1000 new = junk to me.:thumbsup:
Anyway went shopping for a 72" RFM in 2007. I wanted simplicity. That is where the KK lacked with all its idlers, long belt, ect. Anyway went shopping. Looked at Frontier, Land Pride, Woods, and a few others. Ended up with a Caroni. It was $1200 out the door versus $1800 or more for the others. Its been the best implement I own. I use it 4-5 hours a week for 4 years and not put one new part on it. Just grease it every other week and change the gear oil once a year.
As for my other implements I have a King Kutter 2 bottom plow, and 50 year old Ford Disc, a Ford PHD, a Ford Bush Hog, a Woods 7' Rear Grader Blade, a 6' Howse Grader Blade, and a few more I can not remember. Man, Ford made some great implements. Did not realize I had so many.
Chris
Anyway went shopping for a 72" RFM in 2007. I wanted simplicity. That is where the KK lacked with all its idlers, long belt, ect. Anyway went shopping. Looked at Frontier, Land Pride, Woods, and a few others. Ended up with a Caroni. It was $1200 out the door versus $1800 or more for the others. Its been the best implement I own. I use it 4-5 hours a week for 4 years and not put one new part on it. Just grease it every other week and change the gear oil once a year.
As for my other implements I have a King Kutter 2 bottom plow, and 50 year old Ford Disc, a Ford PHD, a Ford Bush Hog, a Woods 7' Rear Grader Blade, a 6' Howse Grader Blade, and a few more I can not remember. Man, Ford made some great implements. Did not realize I had so many.
Chris
Chilly807
Elite Member
As a Canadian, I have to say I'm touched by some of the replies I've seen in this thread. I always figured we were good neighbours on both sides of the fence, but I didn't realize how much faith the American people have in us.
As I posted earlier, if I can find something made in North America it goes to the top of the list if I can afford it.
A case in point is my recent shopping for engineered hardwood flooring. I could find made in Canada for $9-10 per sq foot, and Chinese for $3-4 per sq. foot.
When I commented that I wasn't too interested in the Chinese stuff, the clerk (local store) asked why. I replied that I had some misgivings about build standards and asbestos/formaldehyde/etc inclusions, generally that our products had to meet certain standards before they could be sold here.
She laughed at me, saying there was no reason that I could expect to find things like asbestos or formaldehyde in flooring from China.
I looked her straight in the eye, and said, "No, and there's no good reason they would have put melamine in pet food or baby formula either..."
Needless to say, she didn't sell me any flooring. I found a Quebec product for about $5 per sq. foot.
I will say this, though.. as Canadians, we take great pride in producing the very best beavers on the market today..
Sean
As I posted earlier, if I can find something made in North America it goes to the top of the list if I can afford it.
A case in point is my recent shopping for engineered hardwood flooring. I could find made in Canada for $9-10 per sq foot, and Chinese for $3-4 per sq. foot.
When I commented that I wasn't too interested in the Chinese stuff, the clerk (local store) asked why. I replied that I had some misgivings about build standards and asbestos/formaldehyde/etc inclusions, generally that our products had to meet certain standards before they could be sold here.
She laughed at me, saying there was no reason that I could expect to find things like asbestos or formaldehyde in flooring from China.
I looked her straight in the eye, and said, "No, and there's no good reason they would have put melamine in pet food or baby formula either..."
Needless to say, she didn't sell me any flooring. I found a Quebec product for about $5 per sq. foot.
I will say this, though.. as Canadians, we take great pride in producing the very best beavers on the market today..
Sean
Builder
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As a Canadian, I have to say I'm touched by some of the replies I've seen in this thread. I always figured we were good neighbours on both sides of the fence, but I didn't realize how much faith the American people have in us.
As I posted earlier, if I can find something made in North America it goes to the top of the list if I can afford it.
A case in point is my recent shopping for engineered hardwood flooring. I could find made in Canada for $9-10 per sq foot, and Chinese for $3-4 per sq. foot.
When I commented that I wasn't too interested in the Chinese stuff, the clerk (local store) asked why. I replied that I had some misgivings about build standards and asbestos/formaldehyde/etc inclusions, generally that our products had to meet certain standards before they could be sold here.
She laughed at me, saying there was no reason that I could expect to find things like asbestos or formaldehyde in flooring from China.
I looked her straight in the eye, and said, "No, and there's no good reason they would have put melamine in pet food or baby formula either..."
Needless to say, she didn't sell me any flooring. I found a Quebec product for about $5 per sq. foot.
I will say this, though.. as Canadians, we take great pride in producing the very best beavers on the market today..
Sean
Can't wait till my Arctic plow shows up. Bought an Arctic Skid steer mount poly plow with galvanized steel frame finish. IMO, they are the best on the market if you look at their features. :thumbsup:
Arctic Snowplows - Heavy Duty Skid Steer Trip Edge Poly [HDSSTE-P]
Your beer ain't bad, either.
CCWKen
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I hate being the sour grape in this "pole" but the fact is, most Americans buy on price. And what exactly does "10% more" mean? More than what? 10% more than the highest priced alternative? If manufacturing costs go up 10%, the retail level goes up 20%. I don't know how a company can simply pass along 1:1 increases and stay in business. And is that 10% based on production capacity or simply a raw figure?
I'll bet everyone here shops at Walmart. 90%+ of their products are from off-shore manufactures. They didn't get to be Number One in sales by offering quality American products to the up-scale buyers. They got their by selling CHEAP products to low and middle income buyers. (The largest group of buyers.) And, I can't think of a single modern tractor "made" in the USA. It can't be done. Our car companies can't even do it. Between the EPA and labor unions, few US companies can compete on the global market unless costs are reduced. They're reduced by lowering costs in materials or labor. The materials come from off-shore or cheapened in other ways. The labor is reduced by using robots.
I don't know about every one's area but in this part of the country, all the steel comes from Mexico or India. So nothing in the South is truly "made in USA". It's simply fabricated or assembled here. The commerce laws have been changed to allow very lenient manufacturing claims in the US. Made in USA just doesn't carry the weight it used to.
Most here say; "Oh yeah I'll buy American" but when it comes time to lay out the cash, few follow through. The one's that do are not in the major purchasing group.
I'll bet everyone here shops at Walmart. 90%+ of their products are from off-shore manufactures. They didn't get to be Number One in sales by offering quality American products to the up-scale buyers. They got their by selling CHEAP products to low and middle income buyers. (The largest group of buyers.) And, I can't think of a single modern tractor "made" in the USA. It can't be done. Our car companies can't even do it. Between the EPA and labor unions, few US companies can compete on the global market unless costs are reduced. They're reduced by lowering costs in materials or labor. The materials come from off-shore or cheapened in other ways. The labor is reduced by using robots.
I don't know about every one's area but in this part of the country, all the steel comes from Mexico or India. So nothing in the South is truly "made in USA". It's simply fabricated or assembled here. The commerce laws have been changed to allow very lenient manufacturing claims in the US. Made in USA just doesn't carry the weight it used to.
Most here say; "Oh yeah I'll buy American" but when it comes time to lay out the cash, few follow through. The one's that do are not in the major purchasing group.
i agree that it's totally impossible to buy completely american made, and also probably totally pointless, as some things may not be worth making here without incredible resource outlay. maybe more than following this theory to the letter is to follow it in spirit. it's painfully obvious that we lack american made (or even just quality made) equipment now. as many have stated, they are using 30+ year old implements because those are still more dependable than the fast-food big-box bargain-priced import variety equipment available today.
sure, maybe the rest of the world isn't ready to jump ship from the walmart era, but there is a portion of the population, and a portion of the products sold that just don't lend themselves to that type of manufacturing and sale practice, as many are finally discovering. it's ok if your chinese made pool noodle breaks the first trip to the beach, but when you rely on your chinese made implement for your every day use, that's another story. there's some things that need better quality control, and from my experience, quality control is often directly proportional to the distance between the manufacturer and the buyer. call it a grass roots campaign to get some skilled labor and manufacturing back into the country... call it a cottage industry with room to grow... call it whatever you want, but at least it's an attempt to fill a needed void. if someone can make quality products at even close to the price of poor ones, then they may well be headed in the right direction.
i agree that what you are saying is correct, but it is my belief that we, as a people, often look at certain things and say: "it won't work, so why bother" i think we're reaching a point where we've taken the "why bother" attitude too much, and we need to make a change and instead of finding a dozen reasons why it won't work, we need to say we're doing it and then work at figuring out how to make it work.
Builder
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Don't you think a truck or tractor, made of thousands of individual components, is a little different than a box blade, made of perhaps 20 components in that it CAN be manufactured in the USA of all US materials? Is it so beyond the imagination that you can't find some sheet metal, some ripper spikes, some bolts and a steel frame made here for a tractor attachment?
Wee bit of a difference between the two, don't you think???
dcyrilc
Super Member
Been to a WalMart, ONCE, never been back. Same goes for Harbor Freight. Nothing of interest for me there. 99% of the stuff is garbage. I go to Home Depot around once or twice a year, Only because everyone else is out of what I'm after. I'd rather pay a little more at the local hardware store and keep them in business than spend it at a chain store.
CCWKen
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There's none in your list made in the USA. Unless of course you use some aircraft or specialty bolts. Except for some specialty steels, NO steel is produced in the US. Where are you going to buy the material except from off-shore makers? It doesn't make any difference if you're making buttons or building a skyscraper, the US doesn't make the steel anymore. It's not here to buy.
