Loader Problem mounting FEL

[BeezFun]

New problem mounting my FEL: When I tried to mount FEL I noticed the boom cylinders were extended by different amounts, see photo. One is extended about 2-3" more than the other. If I connect the FEL to the control valve (with FEL dismounted) and cycle the boom cylinders, they stay2-3" out of alignment until one fully contracts, then the other one finishes contracting. But when I extend them, one begins extending first, the other one doesn't move until the first one has extended about 2-3".

If I put FEL in float position (with FEL dismounted) I can manually contract one cylinder, which forces the other one to extend until they line up. But as soon as I try to cycle the cylinders again they get out of alignment.

So I managed to mount the FEL by pushing on one side with the frame. I get it all attached and cycle the boom and everything seems fine, so I dismount it and the boom cylinders are lined up. But as soon as I cycle the boom cylinders (with loader dismounted so there's no load on cylinders), they get out of alignment again.

What's causing this, it makes it really hard to mount the FEL?
thanks

 

[brain55]

One side has more resistance than the other. You might get lucky and just be able to lube the pins, or not. It really isn't that big of a deal. It is rare that both cylinders will have the same amount of resistance and hydralic fluid will always take the path of least resistance.

Brian

 

[whistlepig]

Something is leaking or bleeding. When I take my FEL off I lift it out of the pins while the tractor is running. Then I shut the tractor off and cycle the hydraulic control stick in every direction with the hoses hooked up until all movement quits. This completely bleeds all the pressure from the cylinders and seals. If your cylinders get out of time while the tractor is still running I would think it would be in the tractor control valve. If the cylinders get out of time while the loader is sitting I would think a cylinder is bleeding off.

 

[Grandad4]

The FEL on my BX has been like that since new. Never gave it much thought... doesn't really affect operation in any way.

For re-attaching, I just retract the lift cyls. all the way in and then pull the tractor forward a few additional inches, so the FEL brackets on the tractor are snug up to the FEL mounting arms on both sides. That way the tractor prevents either mounting arm from extending out of synch with the other one and the FEL mounting arms can be adjusted to drop into proper position normally.

 

[whistlepig]

The FEL on my BX has been like that since new. Never gave it much thought... doesn't really affect operation in any way.

For re-attaching, I just retract the lift cyls. all the way in and then pull the tractor forward a few additional inches, so the FEL brackets on the tractor are snug up to the FEL mounting arms on both sides. That way the tractor prevents either mounting arm from extending out of synch with the other one and the FEL mounting arms can be adjusted to drop into proper position normally.

It shouldn't be that way. Mounting my FEL is crisp and clean. It's easier to mount my FEL than any other attachment I have.

 

[BeezFun]

One side has more resistance than the other. You might get lucky and just be able to lube the pins, or not. It really isn't that big of a deal. It is rare that both cylinders will have the same amount of resistance and hydralic fluid will always take the path of least resistance.

Brian

Yes, this is what I thought. They both move freely, as evidenced by the fact that I can cycle them manually (with a little help from a 2x4 lever) when they are in float position. I'll try to make sure I only roll the bucket when I dismount the FEL. I guess I'll just have to bump the one side with the frame as I mount it. I have a dirt floor so there really isn't much resistance to push against, it tends to move the loader crooked before I can mount it. Maybe I need to pound a few stakes in the ground for it to bump up against to stay straight.

 

[Willl]

Rare, but a loose piston inside the cylinder that lags is possible, but doubt it.

Is the amount of 'lag' always the same ?

Once the one that lags starts to move, does it move the same speed as the other the rest of the way ?

 

[Willl]

2-3"

Is that actual cylinder movement ?

 

[whistlepig]

Yes, this is what I thought. They both move freely, as evidenced by the fact that I can cycle them manually (with a little help from a 2x4 lever) when they are in float position. I'll try to make sure I only roll the bucket when I dismount the FEL. I guess I'll just have to bump the one side with the frame as I mount it. I have a dirt floor so there really isn't much resistance to push against, it tends to move the loader crooked before I can mount it. Maybe I need to pound a few stakes in the ground for it to bump up against to stay straight.

One of the biggest reasons I went to a CUT was the quick attach loader. I can put it on or take it off in less than five minutes. And I do this a lot because it is so easy to do. No tools, no hassle. If you are fighting the mounting and dismounting of the loader you have lost the major feature of the CUT.

 

[Tom_H]

My LA211 does this a lot too. Normally, after getting into position, one would engage "Dump" to lower the arms into engaged position. If they are too low, and/or out of alignment with each other, some adjustment is needed. Before connecting the hoses, you can bring them into alignment simply by pushing on the one that is extended the most; the pressure going in will force the other one out. Once the hoses are connected, if the arms are not extended enough, push the lever to the "Up" position. This will make them move back toward the mounts. If one contacts first, it will stop while the other continues, then makes contact.

If they become too far extended, you will need to retract them by putting the lever to "Down" which will pull them back toward the loader (they may retract one at a time, or not at the same rate). Ease the tractor forward, then go to "Up" again to move them back toward the tractor. When they are correctly aligned, use the "Dump" position to engage the end of the arms with the sleeve.

 

[whistlepig]

My tractor and loader is going to the shop if it ever does this. I pull the tractor under the loader, hook up the hoses, and lower the loader on to the mounts. Then I slide in the mounting pins. No tools. No hassle. Five minutes and I'm done. Kubota's quick attach loaders do work that well if they are working right.

 

[Grandad4]

It shouldn't be that way. Mounting my FEL is crisp and clean. It's easier to mount my FEL than any other attachment I have.

You're probably right about that. The FEL on the other Kubota, an L4610, is always completely even. The BX was delivered new with that mismatch, and after 500 hours, it hasn't changed or affected operation. In practice, it takes about 2 seconds to snug up the two sides, doesn't affect ease of mounting.

 

[BeezFun]

For re-attaching, I just retract the lift cyls. all the way in and then pull the tractor forward a few additional inches, so the FEL brackets on the tractor are snug up to the FEL mounting arms on both sides. That way the tractor prevents either mounting arm from extending out of synch with the other one and the FEL mounting arms can be adjusted to drop into proper position normally.

I think this is what I normally do, but in this particular case I had the loader off in an uneven spot on the floor so I actuated the boom cylinders as part of the process to try try to get in the right position. Good idea, I'll make sure I retract all the way.

 

[BeezFun]

Rare, but a loose piston inside the cylinder that lags is possible, but doubt it.

Is the amount of 'lag' always the same ?

Once the one that lags starts to move, does it move the same speed as the other the rest of the way ?

The amount of lag appears the same, but I didn't measure it, and I've only done this twice, so based on a vast statistical sample size of 2, it's always the same.

Once the one that lags starts to move, it moves the same speed as the other one the rest of the way.

 

[BeezFun]

2-3"

Is that actual cylinder movement ?

Yes it's actual cylinder movement, you can see it pretty well in the photo by comparing the amount of cylinder that is exposed on each side. I couldn't get up high enough to take the picture from above, it's easier to see from that angle.

 

[whistlepig]

This is a fairly new post. I can assure you the other Kubota owners are not putting up with this problem. Although I have never used a John Deere quick attach loader I understand that John Deere's quick attach is even easier to mount than the Kubota loader.

 

[rswyan]

This is a fairly new post. I can assure you the other Kubota owners are not putting up with this problem.

Really ? ..... the "other" Kubota owners eh ? .......

My LA402 didn't do this originally ..... but somewhere in the last 950 hours it picked it up as an occasional bad habit .....

Since it really poses no problem, I haven't bothered to spend any T&E on it ......

 

[brain55]

This is a fairly new post. I can assure you the other Kubota owners are not putting up with this problem. Although I have never used a John Deere quick attach loader I understand that John Deere's quick attach is even easier to mount than the Kubota loader.

I'm going to put another 2 cents in here. I'm quite sure my sample size is larger than many here. Having worked in Kubota dealers for 12 years and outside Kubota dealers for another 11 years. I have installed and repaired hundreds of Kubota loaders and many others too. As I said before, most will do this because the resistance side-to-side in the pivot points and internally in the cylinders is rarely the same. Hydraulic flow will always take the path of least resistance. It does not matter whether it is a Kubota, New Holland, John Deere, etc., the same laws of physics apply. Typically you can just push on the arm that is too high and the fluid will move to the other side and extend that cylinder. As soon as the operator figures this out, it does not change the ease or difficulty in installing the loader. If any operator were to take a machine to the dealer with this complaint, they would give the same explanation and send you home.

Brian

 

[Tom_H]

The two arms stayed parallel on mine for about 6 years. About 4 years ago they started drifting apart just a little. It is now common for them to be a good 30 degrees apart if the loader is off for more than a few days. There was quite a learning curve in being able to compensate for the problem. A few times, the FEL bucket got flipped all the way forward; that was a pain to reposition. I tacked some notes on the wall regarding what each position on the lever does with the loader off. It now takes about 2 minutes to get the arms aligned and the tractor just the right distance from them to make connection.

 

[Machold]

My B3030 has a L403 that uis supposed to be quick on/off; however, if you are not parked on completely level ground (concrete pad, for example), good luck with the "quick" part! The arms will not disengage from the bottom pins. It took me 35 minutes to detach the FEL, using methods not specified in the manual. I'm dreading the Fall when I have to put it back on. My tractor barn has a dirt floor, it's hard to park completely level. I have a feeling I'm going to be hoisting that FEL in order to get it back on.