Traction BX-24 Transmission Failure??

[jgiacchi]

My BX-24 with 690 hours appears to have a failed transmission. All service has been done at the required intervals. The rear wheel drive doesn't work in either low or high, I have no brakes, and the differential lock doesn't appear to do anything. The front wheel drive, hydraulics, power steering, pto's and 3 point lift all work fine. Does anyone have any ideas on exactly whot broke? How about a guess on what a transmission rebuild or repair should cost?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[timswi]

Sorry to hear that...it does seem odd that the front drive works...Doesn't sound like a total trans failure.

There have been some here who have found problems with adjustments etc on HST's..I'm sure one of them will chime in...Good luck.

 

[jgiacchi]

Thanks, I don't have a handle on how the trans works, but I found it even odder that the brakes also stopped working.

Jim

 

[timswi]

Thanks, I don't have a handle on how the trans works, but I found it even odder that the brakes also stopped working.

Jim

I'ts a "wet" braking system. The brakes are internal. Not sue why they would quit, or what that would have to do with this.

The parking brake isn't stuck on?

It won't move in 2wd, but will in 4wd?

 

[jgiacchi]

Hi, it moves in 4WD but has no power to the rear wheels. If I stop on a flat surface and switch to 2wd the tractor will roll freely if I give it a push, even if the parking brake is set. It does the same things in Low or High speed.

Jim

 

[KennyV]

It is not a transmission problem...
I'd bet that the brakes work when you have it in 4 wheel drive. KennyV

 

[jgiacchi]

KennyV, good call on the brakes. I locked down the brake pedal, put the tractor in 4WD and it wouldn't move when I pushed the forward or reverse pedal. So if it's not a transmission problem why don't the rear wheels have drive power, in 2WD or 4WD?

Jim

 

[BXpanded]

It's a differential problem. It's not the transmission. It's probably a broken spider gear since the diff lock doesn't help and the front drive still works. If it were a broken axle the diff lock would make it go. The brakes are upstream of the differential. A single brake set stops the drive into the differential.

 

[jgiacchi]

Understanding the power train a little bit better a bad differential/spider gear makes a lot of sense. I'll raise the rear wheels and check the various interactions between the tire rotations and the differential lock. I'd expect everything will rotate independently with a bad differential. From the parts diagrams it doesn't look to difficult to remove the rear end and pull out the differential to work on it. Anyone have any opinions about a do it yourself job?

I'm also thinking the $100 or so for the service manual would be a worthwhile investment. Any opinions.

 

[Yankee Clipper]

JG,

I would suggest not to do your own work as the complete transaxle has to come down and the front cover removed and then the case is split.

There are many, many small parts that or will fly out when you have the case split and even when exercising caution, you may lose a detent ball that you won't miss until you reassemble it to the chassis.

I would say take it to a dealer who knows BXs and tell him what you think it is and ask for a quote.

Good luck!

 

[Renob]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

Was there an incident that led to this breakdown?

Best of luck in the repair.

Please keep posted of your progress.

 

[jgiacchi]

There is no specific incident I can identify that caused the problem. I was using the tractor heavily the past few weeks. The dealer had been selling me Kubota UDT fluid for my first two services, but spent the extra money for Super UDT at the 600 hour change.

About 30 hours later, after a hard days use, I back hoed and moved about 30 yards of dirt going up and down fairly steep slopes, I started hearing an occasional thump when using reverse. When I checked the fluid it was foaming, so I stopped for the day. The next day I rechecked the fluid and it seemed to be down bit so I added about a quart to bring it up into the crosshatch. For the next week I was using a sub-soiler to pull rocks and a rake and still occasionally heard the thump. I also had, on one occasion, a hard time engaging the differential lock.

The day before yesterday I did an hour or so of fairly easy rototilling and spread some wood chips. Yesterday, I raked some rocks into the bucket and got stuck with the front wheels spinning and no drive on the rear when I started to drive to the dump pile.

I'm guessing the problem started the day I saw the foaming oil, but can't really tell.

 

[KubieTwo]

It's a differential problem. It's not the transmission. It's probably a broken spider gear since the diff lock doesn't help and the front drive still works. If it were a broken axle the diff lock would make it go. The brakes are upstream of the differential. A single brake set stops the drive into the differential.

I need some help understanding how it could be a broken spider gear "...since the diff lock doesn't help..." Wouldn't the differential lock essentially lock the left and right axles together and eliminate spider gear rotation, even if one spider gear was completely stripped? Wouldn't the remaining one tie the axles together? If that is true, would that remove anything but total spider gear failure as a possibility???, with next question being....

What other power input components that drive the rear axles would be most likely to have failed which might prevent power to the differential? Does this seem to include such things as stripped splines on input shaft, broken ring gear, stripped pinion gear, etc? Is the ring gear bolted to the carrier or an axle flange? What is the most probable in this tractor series? I would think somebody has had a failure somewhere along the way. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

Don't know, ...just asking for clarification.

 

[dodge man]

I'd probably take it in. I once rebuilt the automatic transmission on my 1970 Challenger. I didn't have a clue what I was doing but followed the step by step in the shop manual, and I pulled it off. It worked perfect. The problem is it took me about 6 weeks to do it. It seemed like at every turn, there was some kind of special tool I needed. I either had to make these or find them. It took a lot of time. I did one a few years later, and it only took me a day, because I knew all the tricks the second time around.

I guess I'd ask you do you have the time and patience to fight through a repair like this.

 

[jgiacchi]

I need some help understanding how it could be a broken spider gear ...

As far as I can tell from the parts diagrams the diff lock locks the right side spider gear to the carrier. When all else is working this loacks all 4 spider gears to the carrier and therefore both axles together.

What other power input components that drive the rear axles would be most likely to have failed which might prevent power to the differential? Does this seem to include such things as stripped splines on input shaft, broken ring gear, stripped pinion gear, etc? Is the ring gear bolted to the carrier or an axle flange?

Again from the parts diagram the drive shaft connects through the transmission to a bevel gear on a shaft with the brake. There are gears on this shaft that seem to drive the rear differential, which only drives the rear wheels. Whatever broke has to be downstream of the brake shaft because everything else works. So the ring gear or any of the differential parts could be bad.

I did raise the rear of the tractor and turned the wheels. When I did this I found they rotated freely and totally independently, regardless of the brakes or the diff lock. I was surprised that I heard no clunking, groaning or grinding noises when spinning the wheels.

 

[jgiacchi]

CURRENT STATUS
I called my dealer, about 30 miles away, to get information about repairing the tractor. I was quoted $300 to transport the tractor to and from his location and approximately $2000 for a repair, depending on exactly what the problem was. He also said I could remove the trans-axle myself and bring it in for repair but I didn't go any further details for costs or warranty.
My next step will be to order a service manual and study the differential repair procedures. I'll post my research results in the next couple of weeks.

Jim

 

[KennyV]

Jim ..
Do you have the tools/desire to work on this?
I'm figuring you should be able to remove the rear cover, where the PTO is, and look inside you'll most likely see the problem... when/if you do , click a few pictures to post here. It's always good to see whats coming apart. KennyV

 

[amg280]

Jim ..
Do you have the tools/desire to work on this?
I'm figuring you should be able to remove the rear cover, where the PTO is, and look inside you'll most likely see the problem... when/if you do , click a few pictures to post here. It's always good to see whats coming apart. KennyV

If your patient, ambitious, and have a digital camera, I would tackle this yourself. You can probably do it for less than that delivery charge! Just take your time methodically taking everything apart, and snap plenty of pics for assistance reassembling it. 2K is way out of the ball park. That can buy you a new reman MB transmission.

Long story short, Lost reverse in my mercedes. Everyplace wanted more than 2K to do it. I got so annoyed with these prices, I did it myself in my own driveway. I removed the tranny, put it on a picknick table, and tore it apart. The problem? A 2 dollar seal that had ripped. I was a happy camper.

 

[jgiacchi]

KennyV,
Unless there's some custom tools to work inside the transaxle I should have everything I need. Truthfully, there are other things I'd rather be doing but $2000 is a strong incentive.

When I get the service manual I ordered I'll know for sure but I don't think I'd be able to see much of the differential by pulling off the rear PTO cover. Have you done this on a similar transaxle?

It looks to me the only way to see the differential is to drop the transaxle and take off the rear axle case and right axle. At that point it looks like the brake assembly and final axle slip out and allow removal of the differential.

Overall, right now it looks like an easier and safer job than when we changed the clutch on my neighbors Ford 5000 tractor. That thing was so heavy I was afraid we might pull down the barn or break the 4x6 we were hoisting from.

I'll be unable to work on the problem for the next couple of weeks but after that the manual should be here and I'll be decide how to proceed. If I decide to do the repair myself I'm planning on taking detailed photos as I pull apart the machine and will post some key shots here.

Jim

 

[C6rider]

Good luck on your repair. If my dealer wanted $300 for transport plus around $2K for the repair without knowing what it was I'd be looking for a new dealer. Hopefully you'll find it's something simple and inexpensive.