TO-20 electrical short?

[buckeyepost]

My latest problem with my Ferguson seems to be electrical. Put a new set of point in it and she ran fine for about 20-30 minutes and then started losing power with the mower engaged. I've been told that there might be an electrical short somewhere. The tractor has been converted to 12V but was probably done in an afternoon with a case of beer... not the greatest job, so I planned to rewire the entire thing. So, I guess my question is, where would the short likely be? On the ground block? Ignition switch? I'm not too familar with electrical systems but if I could find a good diagram somewhere it shouldn't be too hard, right? You guys have saved me before, hope someone has experienced this before and knows where to look.

 

[tommu56]

Check the cap in th3 distributor make sure its for 12volt,
Maybe the points are "burning up" if the cap is bad it will do that and loose power because the dwell goes off.

tom

 

[Jerry/MT]

My latest problem with my Ferguson seems to be electrical. Put a new set of point in it and she ran fine for about 20-30 minutes and then started losing power with the mower engaged. I've been told that there might be an electrical short somewhere. The tractor has been converted to 12V but was probably done in an afternoon with a case of beer... not the greatest job, so I planned to rewire the entire thing. So, I guess my question is, where would the short likely be? On the ground block? Ignition switch? I'm not too familar with electrical systems but if I could find a good diagram somewhere it shouldn't be too hard, right? You guys have saved me before, hope someone has experienced this before and knows where to look.

Start the tractor and work it. When it stops, immedialtely pull the center wire out of the distributor cap, hold it near (1/4") good ground and try a start. You should have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning. If you don't then you'll need to check further. If you do, the ignition isn't the poblem it's most like fuel delivery being limited.

Since you have a 12V conversion, make sure that you have a real 12V coil (like NAPA IC-14SB) or you have a 6V coil with a resistor in series with it in the primary ignition circuit.The primary circuit is limited to about 4 amps max and if someone put a 6V coil in with out a resistor to limit the current to 4 amps max, the insulation melts in the coil in about 30-45 minutes and you loose spark. The other possibility is a bad key switch. They get gunked up and have a high resistance that increases with time and can cause the ignition to fail in about 15 minutes. In both of these scenarios, once the offending component cools down it will run again only to cause another shut down. The solution is to replace the coil with a correct one (NAPA IC-14SB or if it's the key switch, replace that).

Wiring diagrams can be found on url=http://www.fergusonenthusiasts.com. You also might want to get a Ferguson Shop Manual. If you wnat to get more advice on the Fergusons, try the Harry Ferguson Forum on Yesterdays Tractors website.

Hope this helps you.

 

[buckeyepost]

Thanks guys! They key switch might be my problem. I will check the coil type but I just replace it at CarQuest when this first started happening over the summer. AAAAND, I mowed with it running fine the first half of this season, probably had 15-20 hours on it and then one day it just stated acting up like this. Here is a list of what I've done since it started lopping like this and losing power:

- rebuilt carb
- drained fuel tank and blew out gas lines
- disassembled and cleaned fuel bowl
- replaced coil, plugs and points (twice)
- adjusted timing
- new battery

Here is a crappy picture of the coil/dist side of the tractor if it helps.

 

[buckeyepost]

Close up...

 

[Jerry/MT]

Close up...

A quick way to check the ignition switch is to put a jumper across it and start the tractor and work it. If it doesn't quit, you've found the problem. ust remember to disconnect the jumper when you need to shutdown because the key won't shut it down when it's jumpered.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Close up...

A quick way to check the ignition switch is to put a jumper across it and start the tractor and work it. If it doesn't quit, you've found the problem. Just remember to disconnect the jumper when you need to shutdown because the key won't shut it down when it's jumpered.

 

[buckeyepost]

A quick way to check the ignition switch is to put a jumper across it and start the tractor and work it. If it doesn't quit, you've found the problem. Just remember to disconnect the jumper when you need to shutdown because the key won't shut it down when it's jumpered.

Are you talking about doing this on the key switch? How would I go about doing that? Just take all the wires off of the key switch and then give it constant power or something and see if it runs?

 

[tommu56]

buckeyepost

If it is a short it would normally be blowing a fuse.

It sounds like something is "opening up" in the curcuit not "shorting"

I'm assuming your tractor negative ground?

most of the Ferguson prints look positive ground

Please read all the instructions first before attempting!

The simplest test disconnect battery lead at the coil that comes from the harness tape it up.

Then run a wire from the coil bat terminal to 12v+ battery post (assuming it neg ground) 12- battery post for positive ground.

Turn key to activate starter this will bypass the key switch run circuit and any thing in the harness.

You will have to remove this wire to stop engine so be careful.

If it doesn't turn over take temporary wire off and get back to us and we will trouble shoot the cranking problem.


tom

 

[tommu56]

buckeyepost

here is a link to a ford wiring diagram yours should be similar.

http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/Wiring_Diagrams_for_Ford_Tractors2.pdf

 

[tommu56]

buckeyepost
Here is the 6volt Ferguson wiring links

http://www.fergusonenthusiasts.com/wiring/TO_20_6V_Continetal_gas.pdf

and

http://www.fergusonenthusiasts.com/wiring/Ferguson%20Tractor%20TEA_TE_20%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf


tom

 

[tommu56]

buckeyepost

how did you make out?

 

[massey driver]

I've had a similar experience with my friends tractor.It did what yours is doing and has all the same problems. 6v changed to 12v did all the things mentioned above and it still acted the same.Now this is what I finally did that cured his.It was a fuel problem.Blew out the lines,and cleaned out the bowl many times but still would have the same problem.What I finally did was remove the sediment bowl,and remove the part that screws into the bottom of the gas tank.Once you take that out you'll see what I,am talking about.There's two short stems sticking up plus a fine screen on the end as well .As you can imagine it rusts up over years and gets plugged with crap from age so I cut all that stuff off and of course you should have a inline gas filter installed on your fuel line somewhere before the carb.After doing that it runs fine and hasn't let him down yet.Oh yeah this took several years to get it running for him as he;s not mechanically inclinded and it wasn't like I saw him everyday.If it would have been my tractor and I had it in my yard it would have been figured out sooner.So give this a try and who knows.Larry

 

[buckeyepost]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I've been busy with the holidays and all and haven't had a chance to work on it yet, but I plan to get a space heater here before spring sometime.... I will definitely try the key switch bypass first. As for the fuel bowl suggestion, I did take it off and cleaned it well, but the screen that is supposed to be on the stems is not there, looks like it was at one point but it must have come off somehow, maybe I replace the fuel bowl as well????

 

[buckeyepost]

Ok, rewired the entire tractor with some heavy duty 12g wire and replaced the key switch. Ran well for about 15 minutes and then crapped out just like before. I did purchase a fuel/sediment bowl too but haven't installed it yet. I had a buddy look at it that works in an auto shop and he took the fuel line that goes from the bowl to the carb to shorten it because he said it was too long and was looping funny causing it to fight gravity. He seems to think it's fuel related or something is happening when the tractor heats up. Tested all electrical components and they are good. Could probably use a cap and some plug wires but I don't think that's the entire problem.

So, next weekend we will:
- drain gas tank
- replace fuel bowl
- hook up shortened fuel line
- replace cap and wires
- take off the fuel tank to check for leaks in the header

If anyone comes up with something in the meantime, let me hear it. Thanks!

 

[kenstrac]

Have you tried running it with the gas cap loose the vent might be plugged.

 

[tommu56]

Know any body with a boat tank?
Use it to bypass every thing to the carb.
Even a siphon out of a gas can would work after siphon is started

tom

 

[buckeyepost]

Thanks guys. We did take the gas cap off because when we opened it it did let out a pretty good pressurized hiss, but no luck. It could probably use replacing anyway as the rubber seal is cracked.

If by boat tank you just mean a portable gas container with a pump ball than yes our pontoon has one. So, you would just do this to see if it's related to the fuel bowl or gas tank? Just run a rubber hose directly into the carb from the boat tank or something?

 

[tommu56]

Thanks guys. We did take the gas cap off because when we opened it it did let out a pretty good pressurized hiss, but no luck. It could probably use replacing anyway as the rubber seal is cracked.

If by boat tank you just mean a portable gas container with a pump ball than yes our pontoon has one. So, you would just do this to see if it's related to the fuel bowl or gas tank? Just run a rubber hose directly into the carb from the boat tank or something?

Yep set the tank on top of the hood hook the hose to the carb fuel inlet pump bulb a a dozen times or so to get flow started and try and start it.

tom

 

[buckeyepost]

Went to try this and now I got not spark at the plugs, got it at the wire coming off the coil but the plugs have not spark. Bypassed the resistor to see if it helped and got a little spark but not much. Could this be wires, cap and rotor? This thing is drving me nuts!!!