Dealer Reputable Dealer

[careyo63]

To be fair and I did not mean to Offened anyone on here of a Reply I made with Offensive Language. I was referring to a Reply of a flat out Untruthful Proven Lie of contacting me by PM. Honesty is best so I feel it is best to come clean with a statement including the one I made awhile back of a Yanmar tractor I bought from a dealer who was Reg. UTDA at the time and it did not meet thier standards. Spalding Tractors in Griffen Ga. Now thats Even Better Said IMO. I guess I may need to polish up the old Betsy Twins and keep them handy
There are numerous postings of the tractor that is being referred to on this forum. Most likely a VN. recon since there is no signs what so ever of any ROP's Ever being on it and the poor repairs that was done to the motor and chassis. Which all was easily corrected at my home with minimal parts needed. My guess it was a trade in and no way was I going to pay 650.00$ for ROP's when my land is flat as it gets with way to many trees I mow under or around.They are not easily raised or lowerd and To be Honest again ( I was Asked if I wanted ROP's on it ) and was also told it was not Illegal to sell or buy it that way.
I have no doubt that ROP's are a Good saftey feature in certain areas that they may be needed. My 8n in the WV. mountains has not had or needed them for over 50 yrs. extremly unlevel. With that being said I also referred and arranged a Refurbished tractor that was bought from the same dealer last year and I'm not impressed with the ROP's on it what so ever. Cheap low Quality Metal. It is a large model Yanmar and if it Rolls they will most likely bend or could possibly break compared to for instince a New JD I use of similar size.That is also a Highly proffessional opinion from a local metal fabrication shop. When asked what it would take to duplicate the ROP's for my tractors useing the UTDA one's for an example. The quote was 1/3 the cost and higher quality guaranteed. When asked if they may want to start producing them the reply was they have better things to do.
With that kind markup it was worth a shot Dang!! . I will have to agree with another member I do not see buying another Yanmar in the future due to the Dealer issues. UTDA should be a low Cost Safety Feature not a means of rating the quality of a refurbished tractor which is what it seems to be. :ashamed: And also like my mother said Can't stand the heat then stay out of the Kitchen JR.

Carey

 

[kenmac]

Yea I have bought a new truck and there is a ridiculous markup. but it is NEW, not 30 years old, it also came with a 5 yr warranty.

As a business man myself I understand the need for profits, that doesn't make it ok for me to sell a house for 20k more then its actually worth does it?

That new truck didn't come with a 5 yr warranty. You paid for it. I didn't know they were making 20 k on one of these tractors. Maby some where in the $1500 -$2000 (range if that.) I'm ok with that . They are the ones taking the risk & import fees , etc, etc, . If they were selling large volumes of tractors (Like auto makers sell vehicles) the profit margins would be somewhat less. The same could be said for new tractors. The mans in business. To stay open he has to turn a profit. If their making so much $$ why don't you start importing some of these tractors & become a billionaire in no time

 

[kenmac]

I'm not impressed with the ROP's on it what so ever. Cheap low Quality Metal.

Carey

The ROPS on my tractor isn't made of cheap low quality metal.

 

[normde2001]

Uh, Carey, are you and Smoody related by any chance:confused2:? There have been a ton of "out-of-the-crate" tractor lots to go out of the business in the past few years. I can't imagine anyone doing that if they were making a good profit.

 

[careyo63]

Just curious if you could tell us were they come from then.I'm sure there are alot of members on here that would like to know and get the best product for the money since that is your opinion . Including me

Carey

 

[careyo63]

There hasn't been any in my area that I know of. Just one that parted ways with a dist. That was my understanding. I have ALOT of family in Ohio and heard Rumor that one of the Big dealers is about to call it Quits the VN's are doing him in.Imagine that.
Smoody Seems to be my kind of Guy.:thumbsup:

Carey

 

[Smoody]

That new truck didn't come with a 5 yr warranty. You paid for it. I didn't know they were making 20 k on one of these tractors. Maby some where in the $1500 -$2000 (range if that.) I'm ok with that . They are the ones taking the risk & import fees , etc, etc, . If they were selling large volumes of tractors (Like auto makers sell vehicles) the profit margins would be somewhat less. The same could be said for new tractors. The mans in business. To stay open he has to turn a profit. If their making so much $$ why don't you start importing some of these tractors & become a billionaire in no time

OK, now your taking my point out of context, to make it simple for you..
I think there is a price point for a 30 yr old Yanmar tractor and from the prices I am seeing in 2010 that point is overly exceeded. That doesn't make me right, its my opinion. Consumers shouldn't be OK with paying more then something is worth, that just promotes future increase of prices that are already high, ,again IMO.

I would also like to state that my comments in this thread are not directed at any one dealer on this site, particularly in this case ProdaddyTX. They and anyone else selling has the right to charge what they want, I should be able to state my opinion as others without it turning into a argument about one's business. If you are happy with the amount of money you spent on your Yanmar I'm happy for you.

I am just plain sick of seeing the same crap about importing fee's, tractor condition, blah blah blah to justify pricing, its bogus.

I will man up and apologize to anyone I offended, I enjoy the site and consider it a invaluable resource, I enjoy debate as much as the next, but I am stopping it here because life's to short to make enemies.

Regards

 

[clemsonfor]

TX has a point about these tractors being 30yrs old as opposed to just over 20 years old today vs the year 2000. But one would think the price on a YM 00 machine to fall and the 10 or 20's to be taking there place as for as price goes and soon the fx or whatever is next to be sliding in there as the next big thing? jsut thoughts though.

 

[clemsonfor]

Oh my othere point i forgot, smoody and i said buy used and save, most of the used machines are from frederics or hoye or people like steve who reconditioned with new stuff like you say 2-10 years ago if everyery thing was done why should this now used tractor with 300 more hours than the original guy bought it with need all kinds of work on it , just new fluids and such.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

Boy here we go again.... I hesitate to even get in another one of these threads.... but I've been called a liar repeatedly and told my input is BS, so I can't let it slide....

ProdaddyTX , basically you want me to believe the OLDER the yanmars get the more they will cost?

NOPE, not what I said. OLDER does NOT mean they cost more to buy, but OLDER means they need more work IF YOU WANT TO TURN OUT A CONSISTENT HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT. And older means that there there will be fewer meeting any particular set of standards for # of hours, cosmetic condition, mech. condition, etc. More buyers competing for increasingly scarce inventory does drive the prices up, which is what I'm referring to vs the prices of a decade ago.

you will never justify 4,000 dollar markups

No I won't even try, and I don't have to because I make a small fraction of that on each tractor. You should import a couple of those containers you're talking about... see what happens to your thin margins when some of them require major engine work, or they get refused at the port for any one of several reasons, or you have to pay interest on the $75k per container you've got to shell out 2 months before you can even start to sell any of them.

OH and if you are having to replace all the parts you mentioned in your rant then you are not getting any better machines then the ones sent to Vietnam.

If I ranted, I apologize, I didn't mean to... it was long, but I didn't mean to rant or insult anybody. I don't think I did, but I've been wrong about stuff before, and I'm willing to admit it.

We don't "have to" replace all those parts. We could leave many of them off and still have a higher quality tractor than the VN reconditioners, before or after the reconditioning is done... But they are not the benchmark we're shooting for. and I KNOW all of this because I've dealt with hundreds of both type of tractor, so you telling me that my current product is no better, to me is just laughable. I'm not trying to insult you, or challenge anything other than your misconceptions of MY product and our competing reconditioners' product... like I said in my original post, in total agreement with what you were saying, is that people who want to hunt down a deal and fix one up themselves can do it for less.... that's true of most things. And for what it's worth, people who want one partly fixed up and repainted, with a reset hour meter, no safety equipment, and a checkered reliability history can get one for less also.

I would warmly and truly welcome you to come to our shop and run our machines and assess them for yourself...then you could drive not too far from here and check out the Vietnamese reconditioned machines and draw your own informed conclusions. I appreciate your last post very much, and hopefully you'll keep them coming.


Carey, take a look at your PM's... I sent you one, you replied with an offer to supply a bill of sale, so I replied back with contact info... so I guess, yes, technically I sent you two PM's...... Call me a liar if you want, but I asked you ONE, and ONLY ONE TIME for that info.
When I asked you who sold you the tractor I wasn't challenging your honesty, but I guess you took it that way. You volunteered on a thread that you bought a non-ROPS tractor from a UTDA dealer, and I believe you drew the conclusion the UTDA as a whole was a bunch of "BS" because of that. I agree that it's not right for somebody to wave the UTDA banner, then break the rules, which could understandably lead people to think its just a shell game...which it's not. I'm not being over-dramatic when I say there are many small businesses, tens of millions of dollars and people's lives at stake. That's why I wanted to see if you'd supply any more info, so the UTDA could deal with that internal issue the proper way.... internally. I lose sales to lower priced competitors, so it rubs me the wrong way if a dealer's going to try to benefit from their UTDA membership, while doing back door deals that hurt other UTDA dealers and get this kind of poop storm started on the internet. I asked if you'd supply that info...frankly I figured I'd probably not get a reply, but I wanted to ask anyway.... all you had to say was "no" if you didn't want to.


Let's keep it positive guys, and be open to other peoples' input.

PS. For the record, I'm just one UTDA member dealer... I'm not on the board, and I don't speak for the organization as a whole... I don't even know if any of them are aware of this thread.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

TX has a point about these tractors being 30yrs old as opposed to just over 20 years old today vs the year 2000. But one would think the price on a YM 00 machine to fall and the 10 or 20's to be taking there place as for as price goes and soon the fx or whatever is next to be sliding in there as the next big thing? jsut thoughts though.

Hey Clemson, I think you're right, in a vaccuum the older stuff would just slide lower and lower in price... But when you add in the effects of fluctuating exchange rates & transoprtation costs, good economy, bad economy, more competition, it gets muddy in a hurry. I dunno, the downturn in tractor sales because of the economy has made it easier for use to get lower hour machines over the last year or so.... my supplier may be making more money off of me and I just don't know it....but I don't think so. We've lowered our prices substantially vs a year ago just to keep things moving, but my costs haven't come down any.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

Oh my othere point i forgot, smoody and i said buy used and save, most of the used machines are from frederics or hoye or people like steve who reconditioned with new stuff like you say 2-10 years ago if everyery thing was done why should this now used tractor with 300 more hours than the original guy bought it with need all kinds of work on it , just new fluids and such.

Yeah, for sure...find one that had quality work done a few years ago when it got imported, and now somebody's selling it for a few thousand less = having your cake and eating it too.... assuming that the last guy didn't abuse it. I'd like to find more of those to take in trade.

 

[bruce1966us]

most of the used machines are from frederics or hoye or people like steve who reconditioned with new stuff like you say 2-10 years ago if everyery thing was done why should this now used tractor with 300 more hours than the original guy bought it with need all kinds of work on it , just new fluids and such.

lol. something to think about

 

[clemsonfor]

Im not saying that the used tractors just came from there an d people dont like them anymore. There probly are just as many VN machins for sale but think about how many tractors fredrics alone does then look at other people, (bestused tractors not sure if there us reconed or not?) People sell yanmars here everyday good chance most of these had same sort of us reconditioning, but that does not always mean pulled pistons, maybe just fresh paint seat new radiator or something not total rebuild i guess.

 

[bruce1966us]

IMHO Dealers are foolish if they rebuild a perfectly good running engine. That is why I buy mine in good running/operating condition. So I don't have to overhaul the engine....

 

[careyo63]

Perfect example of what I did and didn't buy a Refurbished tracter that was on the lot also. For almost Half the price. And after the dealer seen it on here and the paperwork and reciepts we was going over Stated Dang I sold that to you way to Cheap I believe he forgot the 650.00 ROP's that wasn't on there also.:laughing:

 

[kenmac]

OK, now your taking my point out of context, to make it simple for you..
I think there is a price point for a 30 yr old Yanmar tractor and from the prices I am seeing in 2010 that point is overly exceeded. That doesn't make me right, its my opinion. Consumers shouldn't be OK with paying more then something is worth, that just promotes future increase of prices that are already high, ,again IMO.

I would also like to state that my comments in this thread are not directed at any one dealer on this site, particularly in this case ProdaddyTX. They and anyone else selling has the right to charge what they want, I should be able to state my opinion as others without it turning into a argument about one's business. If you are happy with the amount of money you spent on your Yanmar I'm happy for you.

I am just plain sick of seeing the same crap about importing fee's, tractor condition, blah blah blah to justify pricing, its bogus.

I will man up and apologize to anyone I offended, I enjoy the site and consider it a invaluable resource, I enjoy debate as much as the next, but I am stopping it here because life's to short to make enemies.

Regards

I don't know about anyone else but, I'm not offended.Not just a 30 yr old tractor but, there is a price point on anything. Just look at the housing market, new vehicle market, etc,. I have no Idea what profit is made on one of these tractors no more than I know what's made on a new tractor, vehicle, etc,. If / when the tractors get too expensive . Things will take care of it's self. That's what happens in the market. Believe me I know about the market / economy. I've had to lower my prices some. I've got friends that have done the same. With that said. One can only lower their prices so much & still stay in business. The prices on these tractors are out there for everyone to see. You either buy or you don't. If they bought the tractors for $5.00 & sold them for $200.00 It's ok with me. They took all the risk to try to start a business. My hats off to them for taking the chance & risk that someone might just want to buy one of these tractors

 

[winston1]

quote "If they bought the tractors for $5.00 and sold them for $200 it's OK with me."

Kenmac, that doesn't seem right to me. While I agree business must make profit I think you are talking greed here. Probably not any Yanmar dealers out there thinking this way, at least I hope not. It wouldn't be OK with me if they were.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

quote "If they bought the tractors for $5.00 and sold them for $200 it's OK with me."

Kenmac, that doesn't seem right to me. While I agree business must make profit I think you are talking greed here. Probably not any Yanmar dealers out there thinking this way, at least I hope not. It wouldn't be OK with me if they were.

I think only Microsoft makes those kinds of margins....

 

[clemsonfor]

Ibought a used boxblade from a guy and after talking found out that he was the guy in edefield SC who, he and his dad use to sell the VN tractors there. He said they dont anymore due to the collapse of the ecconmy and they were all cash. He said they never had any problems with them call it low volume or lucky, i dont know (not trying to start that debate here though on VN tractors). Remember he was not trying to sell me on one just telling me about his tractor experience as a tractor guy, this guy put an add in iwwana and i responded went to look and bought the box only after he tells me this so it has no effect on my purchase of his box which is irrelevent to yanmars, he actually had what looked like an early 80's mitsu 40 hp.

My point, he said he still has his dealer recognition and will sell them for $500 or $600 over his cost in the thing, which puts them in the neighborhood in which i paid for mine (also a vn). This profit is lower than other vn dealers im sure as the shipping is put on a single unit not a trailer load of them but that was what he probly made while in business or similar. They still have there shop and always sold used tractors and implements i beleive. He had and always had another job, he worked for a county in a roads dept, i know it was the truth as he has a truck with a state tag and was still wearing the shirt from the town. His dad was the primary guy who im not sure if hes still there selling tractor stuff or retired?


Againd this is not to start a vn debate over us tractors i was just pointing out what this guy told me. Which i already had a tractor and i was buy ing a BB from him before i even knew this.

-Nate