2011 Superduty Specs Announced

[JB4310]

You yourself even agreed that GCWR is GVWR + GVWR. So that truck with a GVWR of 26k PLUS a trailer with a GVWR of 10k = 36k GCWR. That is over the limit, period!

Nope I asked that question specifically today to the DMV official, actually he offered that scenario to explain it. The answer makes sense, otherwise what significance would that 10,001 pound trailer weight have if it was just GVWR+GVWR across the board?


"Who Needs a CDL?

Any Michigan resident who intends to operate the following commercial vehicles is required to have a commercial driver license:

Single Vehicles - Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more."



The reasoning does not make much sense to me though.

JB.

 

[Tailrotor]

Once again instead of making a point or any kind of factual post, you will just tell everyone their wrong or ask questions. Please feel free to explain to everyone how that is legal.

You yourself even agreed that GCWR is GVWR + GVWR. So that truck with a GVWR of 26k PLUS a trailer with a GVWR of 10k = 36k GCWR. That is over the limit, period!

Dmace , HI

I live in Pa and have been following the post and you are exactly right for Pa laws. Here in Pa if your truck is rated at 26k and have a 10k trailer your Good with out the CDL , But if you are 1 pond over on the loaded trailer you will get a fine. Now if you buy a trailer and it is rated at 13k and you hook that to your truck empty and don,t have a CDL You will be fined!! With out a CDL in PA you have to stay under 26k combine weight truck or trailer and load. Or under 10k with trailer if not you need a CDL. Thats how it is in Pa.

So what I am trying to say is I agree with you. At least for PA.

Truck and trailer no more then 26k
Trailer up to 10k no more
After a 10k say 10,500 trailer if it is hook to the truck and you are completely empty and pull in to the weight station and are under 26k ( still legal ) But the trooper looks at the data tag on the trailer and it says 13k and you don't have a CDL you are getting a fine period!!!. Pa had a bad accident a few years back that took the life of a father and his two children. And they enforce this to the MAX!!

 

[Dmace]

26k GVWR truck (under CDL) + 10k GVWR trailer (under CDL) = 36k GCWR (under CDL) simple as that. Period.

Since you obviously think I am wrong please tell us what class of CDL would be needed to drive JB's example rig of 20k + 8k.

Wow, you really don't get it do you? 36k GCWR is NOT under CDL, that is written in plain english. This is the third time I will post this link and quote it. Are you even reading the post here...?
From: Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.

The vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds

There, I made it bigger and bolder so hopefully you actually read it this time. It's EITHER OR, so you cannot exceed the limit of 26k on EITHER GVWR OR GCWR. Even you agree that the GCWR of that combination is 36k. I don't know what school you went to but around here, 36,000 is more than 26,001. How do you not understand this...?

JB, go ask him to clarify because this confusion is what gets many people in trouble. Yes you can drive a class 6 truck rated at no more then 26k GVWR and load it right to the max assuming it doesn't have air brakes BUT you cannot hook up ANY trailer to that truck without at least a CDL-B. As soon as you attach a trailer to that truck, your GCWR which is the COMBINED rating of both the truck and the trailer has now exceeded the 26k limit. It's simple but can get confusing. The highest Truck and Trailer combination you can have without a CDL license is a Truck with a GVWR of 16k and a trailer with a GVWR of 10k.

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more."

Once again you guys are missing the word OR. In order for you to tow that trailer with a GVWR of 10k then the truck cannot have a GVWR of more then 16k lbs, not even one more lb over 16,000. If that trailer is 10,001 lbs GVWR then your truck cannot have a GVWR of more then 15,999 lbs.

Tailrotor, that's the way it is here as well. At least someone gets it...

 

[Dargo]

Hey, monkey wrench here again. How is it that I don't need a CDL when driving my coach (over 37k) even when pulling a 15k trailer? That's a lot of weight. Heck, I didn't have an air pressure gauge that went to 120 psi until I read the manual(s) and went to check the tire pressures. Seems like a little 90 year old fella driving my rig would pose a greater danger to others on the road.

 

[Diamondpilot]

For $600.00.... what could you get ? A thicker spring package ? A little don't buy you alot.

When I got my truck I got larger tires, springs, and the GVWR goes from 10,000# max to 11,500# max. That was in 96 but I looked a year ago and the difference was still about $600. A good upgrade in my opinion.

Chris

 

[Duffster]

Wow, you really don't get it do you? 36k GCWR is NOT under CDL, that is written in plain english. This is the third time I will post this link and quote it. Are you even reading the post here...?
From: Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.
There, I made it bigger and bolder so hopefully you actually read it this time. It's EITHER OR, so you cannot exceed the limit of 26k on EITHER GVWR OR GCWR. Even you agree that the GCWR of that combination is 36k. I don't know what school you went to but around here, 36,000 is more than 26,001. How do you not understand this...?

Again

What class of license would be needed to drive JD's example rig of 28k GCWR?

JB, go ask him to clarify because this confusion is what gets many people in trouble. Yes you can drive a class 6 truck rated at no more then 26k GVWR and load it right to the max assuming it doesn't have air brakes

It doesn't make any difference if it does have air brakes.

Air brakes DO NOT require a CDL. DO NOT period.

BUT you cannot hook up ANY trailer to that truck without at least a CDL-B. As soon as you attach a trailer to that truck, your GCWR which is the COMBINED rating of both the truck and the trailer has now exceeded the 26k limit.

What 26k GCWR limit? The base line for a class A is 26k+ combo including a 10k+ trailer. The base line for a Class B is 26k+ GVWR.

The highest Truck and Trailer combination you can have without a CDL license is a Truck with a GVWR of 16k and a trailer with a GVWR of 10k.

Wrong again Dmace

Once again you guys are missing the word OR. In order for you to tow that trailer with a GVWR of 10k then the truck cannot have a GVWR of more then 16k lbs, not even one more lb over 16,000. If that trailer is 10,001 lbs GVWR then your truck cannot have a GVWR of more then 15,999 lbs.

And you are missing the word "when" I highlighted it in red for you.

Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more.

See you need to be over 10k and over 26k at the same time.

Tailrotor, that's the way it is here as well. At least someone gets it...

So you agree with this?

Dmace , HI

Here in Pa if your truck is rated at 26k and have a 10k trailer your Good with out the CDL

??????? Isn't that what JB and I said?

 

[JasG]

This right here is the Federal guide lines states had to go with. They can make stricter laws, but they at least have this minimum. They only go by GCWR, with truck trailer combo's, GVWR does not matter. Each state has written the terms in there own way, and in most cases in leagelese. Going by this to tow a trailer in excess of 10000 lbs if your truck is rated for over 26000 GCWR you do need a CDL. It does not matter if it is for personal use or not unless it is an RV. Here in NY they keep changing the wording every year and the requirments. A few years ago you needs a "Non-CDL" for over 18000 lbs GCWR.

So the way I read it, you can pull a larger trailer with a truck rated at 26000 lbs, than a truck rated at 26001 lbs+. With a 26001 lbs you are limited to 10000 lbs, with 26000 it's as much as you can haul staying below 26001 lbs.

15 years ago an F350/450 you would never see pulled over. Some of these guys were hauling dozers and backhoes way over the limits of the trucks. Not anymore, now you see landscapers etc pulled over. 1 stop and the fines are huge for not having the proper license and registration. They also don't care what you register the truck for, here in NY, they go by the rating from the OEM.

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

 

[Duffster]

This right here is the Federal guide lines states had to go with. They can make stricter laws, but they at least have this minimum.

This is true however besides Kalifornia there is very little difference between the Feds and any one state as far as the CDL requirements. That said NY has the most restrictions and endorsements of any of the states.

I am glad you jumped in here. NY's website does a pretty good job of clearly saying what can and can not be done with a standard DL.

They only go by GCWR, with truck trailer combo's, GVWR does not matter.

But GVWR is how they get GCWR, and trailer has to be over 10k GVWR.

Going by this to tow a trailer in excess of 10000 lbs if your truck is rated for over 26000 GCWR you do need a CDL. It does not matter if it is for personal use or not unless it is an RV. Here in NY they keep changing the wording every year and the requirments. A few years ago you needs a "Non-CDL" for over 18000 lbs GCWR.

But NY requires Non CDL licenses that fall into the same weight brackets as CDL's, correct?

So the way I read it, you can pull a larger trailer with a truck rated at 26000 lbs, than a truck rated at 26001 lbs+. With a 26001 lbs you are limited to 10000 lbs, with 26000 it's as much as you can haul staying below 26001 lbs.

15 years ago an F350/450 you would never see pulled over. Some of these guys were hauling dozers and backhoes way over the limits of the trucks. Not anymore, now you see landscapers etc pulled over. 1 stop and the fines are huge for not having the proper license and registration. They also don't care what you register the truck for, here in NY, they go by the rating from the OEM.

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.

Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

NY's site clearly states that JB's example of 28k can be driven with a class D/standard DL.

Drivers with Current Class D Licenses. A driver with a Class D license can now operate a passenger vehicle, a limited use automobile, or:

* A truck with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less that tows another vehicle, and the other vehicle has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. or less.

Which is the same thing the Feds say here. (In non legalese).

Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds GVWR, towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a CMV and does the driver need a CDL?

Guidance: No to both questions.

 

[Tailrotor]

Originally Posted by Tailrotor
Dmace , HI

Here in Pa if your truck is rated at 26k and have a 10k trailer your Good with out the CDL

??????? Isn't that what JB and I said?

Not exactly!! This is what I have , I have a F250 6.4 diesel and I have a class c license. I can drive any truck by its self up to 26k or combination of truck and trailer up to 26k. If i go over I need a CDL.

So I have a F250 and a 10k trailer on data tag. and when I load my tractor on the trailer I am at just about 10k on the trailer. My trailer weighs 1900lbs
and I have a useful load of 8100lbs.

As long as I stay under the 10k on the trailer and also not over weight no CDL and no fines!!

But even if I had a 11k trailer and still fall under the 26k combination of truck and trailer I still need a CDL because the trailer is over 10k.

I can't drive a vehicel that weighs more the 26k by its self or combination of the two. Or a trailer over 10k no matter what if the data tag on the trailer says 13k or what ever over 10k i

 

[JB4310]

Well I'm glad we're all in agreement here :

Hey, monkey wrench here again. How is it that I don't need a CDL when driving my coach (over 37k) even when pulling a 15k trailer? That's a lot of weight. Heck, I didn't have an air pressure gauge that went to 120 psi until I read the manual(s) and went to check the tire pressures. Seems like a little 90 year old fella driving my rig would pose a greater danger to others on the road.

You would think so, but common sense doesn't seem to be the soup of the day

If I'm correct now regarding the scenario I laid out, picture this:

A Chevy C-60 or equivalent class 6 truck (26K gvwr) with a 16ft equipment trailer (10K gvwr) hooked up to it.

Parked next to,

A F-350, class 3 truck (12.5K gvwr) with a 16ft equipment trailer (14K gvwr) hooked up to it.

The much smaller looking package with the Ford and same size LOOKING trailer would require a CDL to operate.
While the much larger package with the class 6 truck would not.

That +10K gvwr trailer combined with the +26K cgwr is the deciding factor. Seems crazy right? especially considering the only visible difference between the trailers would be 1 extra lug nut (or 2?) per wheel on the trailer being towed by the Ford, indicating 7K axels as opposed to 5K axles.

I could be wrong as I have been already in this thread, but this is what I'm coming up with now

JB.

 

[Tailrotor]

Originally Posted by Tailrotor
Dmace , HI

Here in Pa if your truck is rated at 26k and have a 10k trailer your Good with out the CDL

??????? Isn't that what JB and I said?Not exactly!! This is what I have , I have a F250 6.4 diesel and I have a class c license. I can drive any truck by its self up to 26k or combination of truck and trailer up to 26k. If i go over I need a CDL.

So I have a F250 and a 10k trailer on data tag. and when I load my tractor on the trailer I am at just about 10k on the trailer. My trailer weighs 1900lbs
and I have a useful load of 8100lbs.

As long as I stay under the 10k on the trailer and also not over weight no CDL and no fines!!

But even if I had a 11k trailer and still fall under the 26k combination of truck and trailer I still need a CDL because the trailer is over 10k.

I can't drive a vehicle that weighs more the 26k by its self or combination of the two. Or a trailer over 10k no matter what if the data tag on the trailer says 13k or what ever over 10k I am not legal. I need the CDL. You don't get 26k + 10k and = 36k .

And RV'S are not in the same class here either they do what they want pretty much.

So if you can understand my ramblings here the finial dale is this here in PA

If you hook a trailer to your truck over 10k you need a CDL ( EVEN IF IT IS EMPTY )

If you are over 26k need a CDL single or combo.

And remember the CDL is needed for the class not what you drive.

 

[JB4310]

Wow, you really don't get it do you? 36k GCWR is NOT under CDL, that is written in plain english. This is the third time I will post this link and quote it. Are you even reading the post here...?
From: Section 259:12-e Commercial Motor Vehicle.

I think what might be throwing you off, is the link you keep referring to does not show the 10,001 trailer wording that all the others show, it only refers to that 26,001 CGWR.
It was confusing me as well, it seems the truck manufacturers CGWR means little by itself and is more about the trucks gvwr plus the trailers gvwr, but only when the trailers gvwr is in excess of 10,001 pounds.
Otherwise the extra trailer weight up to 10,000 pounds is bonus weight if you will, even over the trucks 26K gvw, I know doesn't really make sense.

JB.

 

[Duffster]

??????? Isn't that what JB and I said?

Not exactly!!

That is what you said, although that may not have been what you meant.

This is what I have , I have a F250 6.4 diesel and I have a class c license. I can drive any truck by its self up to 26k or combination of truck and trailer up to 26k. If i go over I need a CDL.

So I have a F250 and a 10k trailer on data tag. and when I load my tractor on the trailer I am at just about 10k on the trailer. My trailer weighs 1900lbs
and I have a useful load of 8100lbs.

As long as I stay under the 10k on the trailer and also not over weight no CDL and no fines!!

But even if I had a 11k trailer and still fall under the 26k combination of truck and trailer I still need a CDL because the trailer is over 10k.

Trailer over 10k by itself does not require a CDL, like I have previously posted the Combo has to be ove 26k and the trailer over 10k simultaneously to require a class A.

I can't drive a vehicle that weighs more the 26k by its self or combination of the two. Or a trailer over 10k no matter what if the data tag on the trailer says 13k or what ever over 10k I am not legal. I need the CDL. You don't get 26k + 10k and = 36k .

Incorrect

Please read the quote I posted from the feds site again. PA has the same requirements the Feds put out.

If you hook a trailer to your truck over 10k you need a CDL ( EVEN IF IT IS EMPTY )

If you are over 26k need a CDL single or combo.

And remember the CDL is needed for the class not what you drive.

See above.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Man, that new F-350 is sure impressive.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I am glad this is getting back on track!:thumbsup:

Chris

 

[Duffster]

Man, that new F-350 is sure impressive.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Chris

That it is. Those tow ratings are HUGE. :thumbsup: :laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[Tailrotor]

That is what you said, although that may not have been what you meant.



Trailer over 10k by itself does not require a CDL, like I have previously posted the Combo has to be over 26k and the trailer over 10k simultaneously to require a class A.



Incorrect

Please read the quote I posted from the feds site again. PA has the same requirements the Feds put out.




See above.

I am not going to argue over what state laws say what I don't no them. But I do know in Pa if you only have a Class C license and no other combination or combined license of any kind and you drive through Pa with a 13k trailer empty hooked to the back of a F250 and you get pulled over by the D.O.T you will pay a fine if you have nothing else but a class A license. As I stated above it is not the weight your at for the CDL But the class greater then 10 k is required to have a CDL or combo / combined ( Trailer by it's self here in Pa. )

I know it is dumb but that is what the DOT goes by. They will write you up every time.

The best advice I would give anybody is to contact your local D.OT and see what your rules are for your state.

 

[JB4310]

Man, that new F-350 is sure impressive.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I am glad this is getting back on track!:thumbsup:

Chris

I still think that new diesel LOOKS wicked complex, compared to my 6.7 Cummins.

As far as the tow ratings go I guess unless you're willing to get a CDL you really can't tow much more with a new super duty than you can with the other 2.

OK, Ding! Round 2.

JB.

 

[Duffster]

I still think that new diesel LOOKS wicked complex, compared to my 6.7 Cummins.

As far as the tow ratings go I guess unless you're willing to get a CDL you really can't tow much more with a new super duty than you can with the other 2.

OK, Ding! Round 2.

JB.

:laughing:

I am not going to argue over what state laws say what I don't no them. But I do know in Pa if you only have a Class C license and no other combination or combined license of any kind and you drive through Pa with a 13k trailer empty hooked to the back of a F250 and you get pulled over by the D.O.T you will pay a fine if you have nothing else but a class A license. As I stated above it is not the weight your at for the CDL But the class greater then 10 k is required to have a CDL or combo / combined ( Trailer by it's self here in Pa. )

I know it is dumb but that is what the DOT goes by. They will write you up every time.

The best advice I would give anybody is to contact your local D.OT and see what your rules are for your state.

So you are OK with Law Enforcement enforcing laws that don't exist?

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-cdl.pdf

I wouldn't/couldn't lay down that easy.

 

[Tailrotor]

:laughing:



So you are OK with Law Enforcement enforcing laws that don't exist?

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-cdl.pdf

I wouldn't/couldn't lay down that easy.

I agree with everything that says and I have said such! But as I have said before the class of trailer is what will get you in trouble. If you have a 13k trailer and it is only loaded to 12k and you are still under 26k you will!!! get fined in PA. If you don't have a CDL. The PA D.OT is who Regulates along with our state police. The driver license agency does not stop you on the highway nor is it the crime codes enforcement agentency. The DOT IS, and you go by there rules. Why don't you load your truck up and come on over to Pa with your trailer that is 13k or more with a 5 k tractor on the back and you will still be way under 26k and no CDL. We will call the DOT. And you will have to get your check book out.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/vehicle_code/index.shtml

 

[Duffster]

Where is Builder when you need him? :laughing:

I agree with everything that says and I have said such! But as I have said before the class of trailer is what will get you in trouble. If you have a 13k trailer and it is only loaded to 12k and you are still under 26k you will!!! get fined in PA. If you don't have a CDL. The PA D.OT is who Regulates along with our state police. The driver license agency does not stop you on the highway nor is it the crime codes enforcement agentency. The DOT IS, and you go by there rules. Why don't you load your truck up and come on over to Pa with your trailer that is 13k or more with a 5 k tractor on the back and you will still be way under 26k and no CDL. We will call the DOT. And you will have to get your check book out.

PennDOT Driver and Vehicle Services - Vehicle Code

I wouldn't even think twice about it.

I would go straight to the courthouse if needed.

Why do you keep referencing a trailer 13k or over?

Is there something in particular from that link you want me to see?