Bucket Is Slipping Under Load

/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #1  

JDGreenGrass

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
1,580
Location
Maine
Tractor
John Deere 770
Recently I had a load of firewood in my bucket and I turned the tractor off to prepare a spot to put the wood. When I got back to the tractor the bucket had dumped the wood. The bucket had "creeped" down.

I also noticed this when I was hanging my deer off the bucket. A light load I might add (100lbs.)

When I lifted my ballast box, 600lbs., I draped the chain over the back off the bucket and it held firm. Therefore, the "dump" is slipping.

Any suggestions for the rookie.??;):D
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #2  
It's not the O-rings in the dump/curl cylinders. I looked back at your picture of your weight box to see if you were fully curled or not. It held that weight and didn't curl further.

Hopefully JJ, kennyd, or AKKAMANN will jump in.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #3  
Some leakdown of the loader (both lift and curl) is normal. JD even has a published spec of "acceptable leakdown rates" for it' loaders.

It could be the seals in the cylinders and/or the valve. Basically if the leakdown amount is small, then you can do nothing about it unfortunately. when it becomes drastic hopefully the problem will be in the cylinders because the valve is not rebuildable.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load
  • Thread Starter
#4  
It's an SMC loader, if that helps at all.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Is it odd that the bucket leaks down but not up.??

Also, I see no evidence of a leak at all. Can you have a leak that is not apparent to the naked eye.??
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #7  
I'm sure you don't have an actual leak. What's happening is the valving used to manipulate the FEL is leaking across.

The 410 FEL on my 4010 leaks a tiny bit on the dump and a tiny bit in the up/down. It'll uncurl and drop if left up in the air, but VERY slowly. Actually, it didn't do this when completely new, or else I didn't notice it. Could be because I didn't have the bucket indicator when it was really new (and while I was hauling about 22 ton of gravel). With the bucket indicator, I can clearly see a tiny drop in the curl.

Ralph
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #8  
Is it odd that the bucket leaks down but not up.??

Also, I see no evidence of a leak at all. Can you have a leak that is not apparent to the naked eye.??

Down but not up...I guess I don't understand:confused:

The "leak" is internal so you will not see it. The fluid could be bypassing the seals on the end of the piston inside the cylinder, or bypassing the spool (the part that slides) inside the valve.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #9  
I have to agree with others some holding force loss is normal in just about all hydraulics. As others said, if it is getting bad then seals are probably to blame.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #10  
Here's a simple test you can do to check for internal leaks in your curl cylinder. First, find something that weighs 200 lb to 400 lb and put it into your bucket as close to the cutting edge as possible. A few bags of concrete would work great for this. Next, lower your loader arms all the way down and keep your bucket flat on the ground. Now, disconnect the bucket curl quick connects. Raise the loader arms and see if/how long the bucket takes to curl down and dump the load. If it holds steady and does not dump at all, then your joystick valve is leaking. If it slowly curls down, then your hydraulic curl cylinders are leaking internally. Of course, if your quick connects seep fluid, this test will not work. But most quick connects will hold tight.

Lower your arms back down and take the tension off the bucket before reconnecting the quick connects.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #11  
Down but not up...I guess I don't understand:confused:

Maybe I can help explain what GreenGrass is saying. With the bucked dumped and a heavy weight hanging off the back of the bucket (the force of the weight trying to curl the bucket), the bucket holds the weight. With the bucket curled and a small amount of weight in the bucket, the bucket will bleed off and dump the load.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #12  
Is it odd that the bucket leaks down but not up.??

Also, I see no evidence of a leak at all. Can you have a leak that is not apparent to the naked eye.??

Yes, you can have internal leaks that you will never see. Such as, if the fluid are leaking past the piston seals in the cyl.

Gravity is the answer. Buckets or lift cyl can not lift with out power, but can drop under the weight of the system.

I should clarify this. If the piston seals are leaking, and if the geometry is such that the weight is pulling on the cyl shaft, then the shaft will extend. If the geometry is such that the weight is pushing on the shaft, from an extended position, then the shaft will retract.

There is danger in a system that leaks down as you indicated by someones bucket dumping a load of wood. What if a kid were playing around the tractor.

For safety reasons, FEL should not be left in the raised position.

As Jinman said, do the bucket cyl test and prove to your satisfaction, whether it is the cyl leaking.

Even new valves leak to some degree, and as they begin to wear, the drop down is to be expected, and you have to live with it or replace the leaking components. You could add pilot operated check valves in the cyl circuits, to compensate for the leaking valve, but it tends to slow things down.

You could take the cyl to a hyd shop and get them to do a load test for leakage. They should be able to pressurize the cyl and tell you if it is leaking. If you let them fix it, have them test if after new seals have been installed.

Always get an estimate for labor and ask is there a min time you have to pay. If you don't like their fee, then you can order the seal kit and do it yourself.

Do you have one cyl or two for curl?
 
Last edited:
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Thanks everyone for taking the time to think this through for me.

The bucket has 2 curl cylinders.

I may have time to do a test this weekend.

There are no safety issues with the bucket slipping. I rarely have the bucket high at idle or stop.

I used the bucket to move 16 yards of gravel when I restored my driveway a couple of weeks ago. The problem is not evident when working the bucket in this manner and I am certain wouldn't notice a problem when the snow flies.

Is this a problem that deserves immediate attention.?? Or, can it go to the middle of the priority list around the house.??
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #14  
I used the bucket to move 16 yards of gravel when I restored my driveway a couple of weeks ago. The problem is not evident when working the bucket in this manner and I am certain wouldn't notice a problem when the snow flies.

Is this a problem that deserves immediate attention.?? Or, can it go to the middle of the priority list around the house.??

I say leave it alone. Mine has been acting like that since day 1. You rarely if ever NEED to leave the bucket up in the air and have it stay...
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I say leave it alone. Mine has been acting like that since day 1. You rarely if ever NEED to leave the bucket up in the air and have it stay...


That eases my mind.

Like I said, the bucket is 100% when being worked. I just didn't want neglect to lead to a bigger problem.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #16  
As with kennyd, my curl cylinders and lift cylinders leak slightly on my New Holland. It's getting a bit more with age, but I never bother with it unless I'm using my grapple to hold a tree trunk off the ground while bucking it to size with my chainsaw. I have to give the FEL a touch ever once in awhile just to keep the bucket from sagging. By the time I have 2500 hours on my tractor, it may be time for a new seal kit. Right now at 1600 hours, its not that big of an issue.:)
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #17  
GoodAfternoon,
I had the exact same problem with mine (4520), returned it to the dealer and it was determined that one cylinder had a bad 'check valve'. Replaced the cylinder and now everyone is happy.
Wish you luck with yours,
Jim
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #18  
GoodAfternoon,
I had the exact same problem with mine (4520), returned it to the dealer and it was determined that one cylinder had a bad 'check valve'. Replaced the cylinder and now everyone is happy.
Wish you luck with yours,
Jim

Loader cylinders do not have "check valves" in them.
 
/ Bucket Is Slipping Under Load #19  

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