What would you do?

[flusher]

I hate to say it but if you owe 17K you are upside down on this truck and are stuck. I agree with Ryan. Do what we both say and get Head Studs put on it and drive it like you stole it.

By the way I know about a dozen guys who have Ford 6.0's and about half a dozen with Dmax and Cummins and the Fords have been by far the best as far as maintenance go. The 3 6.0's I take care of are dry as a bone, no drips or leaks. All 3 have chips and we tow heavy, over 15,000# with zero complaints. The guys with Dodges have had tranny problems. I was one of these guys who had 3 trannys in a 04 2500 before 60,000 miles.

Chris

Was your Dodge tranny manual or automatic?

 

[horsinaround]

I have a Codge with the Cummins and a 6 speed manual transmission. Manual might not be the most convenient around town, but there is no doubt you can keep it in sweet spot. No problems with it and it is one pulling machine... Stock. I pull a big horse trailer and also a 24 foot gooseneck equipment trailer. The only thing I have had done to it is have the rear pinion seal replaced under warranty as it started to drip. I have 95000 miles and get 14mpg pulling and 19-21 empty.

 

[powerstroke444e]

Well I am in simular boat I want a newer heavy hauler but don't like any of the new stuff enough to make a big paymnet. I have started looking for a F650 extend or crewcab with a 5.9L as I think a heavier truck will last longer with loads I pull and I can like with out FWD.

 

[Diamondpilot]

John, I respect your opinion like you do mine. You having a 8,800# F-250 was a handy cap. My 2004 F-250 is a 10,000# unit so much heavier. I had this truck at the same time as I did my 2005 GM 3500 SRW with a 9,900# GVWR and they were equally matched and both squatted the same, about 8 inches when I put the boat in my avitar on the back. I then ordered a 2006 F-350 and traded in the Dmax with 11,500# GVWR and wow. It only moves 2" at the most. Drives with much more confidence.

The simple math here is the GM 2500 with 8,800#-7,200# for the truck leaves 1,600# of payload which exceeds the 3/4 ton rating slightly. My F-250 with 10,000#-7,600# for the truck leaves 2,400# exceeds the 3/4 and 1 ton ratings both.

While I agree the GM power-plant is a nice one the truck as a whole is not without its know issues. Same with Ford and Dodge.

People say I am Ford Bias. That is far from true. Since 2003 I have owned a 2500 Dodge, 2 Fords the F-350 and the F-250 mentioned above, and a GM 3500. I have had by far the best luck with the Fords. I also currently own a Saturn and a Nissan Titan truck along with the 2 Ford Superdutys so to say I am biased makes me laugh. I simply buy what is the best for my needs as you did with the GM2500 for yourself.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Was your Dodge tranny manual or automatic?

Auto. Had it rebuilt by Dodge then had a Jasper put in it. Traded it in on a F-250 with a bad tranny and took nearly a 6K hit. Easy to see why so many Dodges have manuals. The Auto have a awful reputation.

Chris

 

[powerstroke444e]

I will agree with Diamond, that the dodge auto's in the 2002 and older trucks would be my last choice but I don't think the OP is going to buy something that old and I don't think anyone would put that trans on a must have list.
Let hope that if he does go that old he looks at a used 450-550 ford with 7.3 or a F650 with the 5.9L with an auto or a stick as he said he is thinking about a heavy hauler?

I fully understand wanting to get out of a vechile once it loses your faith in it, get rid of it, its your money spend it on what you like/want.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I also usually agree with Chris on this subject. But his refusal to admit the 6.0 is accident prone puts him in the "builder catergory" blind brand loyalty. The 2500hd are super hard to find here also. There pricing used in comparable but finding one is tough. I have looked on the dmax forums for awhile and don't see even close to the number of issues with those guys. I've seen alot of IH and Frieghtliners flatbeds going for nothing. Granted the hp isn't great but the rest of the truck is perfect. I'd never need to worry about having enough brakes. The creature comforts are there but for strickly towing it would be great. The only hold back is the camper for the fam. I'd also like to have 4x4 and that's a bit harder to find. There's a nice hooklift IH I'd love to pickup.
I could haul my equipment in the containers. I'd prefer to get at least a 1 ton but the gm in a 1ton is impossible to find in srw.


Matt

 

[WH401]

Auto. Had it rebuilt by Dodge then had a Jasper put in it. Traded it in on a F-250 with a bad tranny and took nearly a 6K hit. Easy to see why so many Dodges have manuals. The Auto have a awful reputation.

Chris

For the record it wasn't a diesel auto, it was behind a Hemi, which they use the same transmission in the 2500/3500's behind a Hemi as they do in the 1500's.

 

[dodge man]

Lets do a little math. Lets say you figure fuel costs for a gas truck vs a diesel truck. Say the diesel gets 15mpg and the gas gets 10mpg. Assume fuel costs $2.50 per gallon for both. I'll figure it for 100,000 miles. If my math is correct the fuel cost for diesel is $6,666 and the gas is $10,000. Thats a savings of $3,333. I don't know how much more a diesel costs than a gas motor but I'll throw out $8000. It seems like it would take 200,000 miles to make the diesel pay for its self. I suppose a diesel holds up better, holds its value better etc. but I contend alot of people are buying diesel trucks because they want to, not because they NEED to. They are the in thing right now. There is nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying a gas motor might make more economic sense for the OP.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Yes, my Dodge 2500 was a Hemi. The tranny was a poor match for that truck. It never towed more than 10,000# which I did for 2 years prior with a F-150. No issues with that truck but had 3.55 gears and just could not handle that weight.

As for the gas diesel thing I agree 100% that for most buyers the gas engine makes since. Well kind of. The diesel will give you on average $5,000 more on trade over a gas. The problem is, and this is not being brand loyal, Ford is the only one with a gas engine up to the task being the V-10. GM really screwed up dropping the 8.1L, it was a sweet engine. Dodge had a good start with the 360 and even the V-10 they had back about 10 years ago then went Hemi crazy. I bought into it because of the funny commercials. The reality is its a great car engine but has no place in a truck.

I do know the 6.0 has some issues but the total package of the 04-07 Ford truck is hands down the best total package for that time period. Dodge had a great engine in the 5.9 but the rest of the truck was a step behind the GM and Ford offerings. GM has issues with the Dmax up till 2005, especially with overheating pulling heavy loads. The real issues I have with the GM products is the chassis, its the worst in the class. They also have know problems with the Allison cooling lines, steering shafts, ect.

One last thing then I will stop. Ford sells over 83% diesels in the 3/4 ton and larger class. Dodge and GM sell in the 40% range. As far as total sales go Ford outsells diesel equipped trucks of both Dodge and GM combined. This alone means there are twice as many Ford diesels on the road compared to both GM and Dodge. So yes, it will look like they may have more issues but that is not the case just by numbers alone.

Again, I am not builder loyal. I would buy a Dodge tomorrow if it was on par as a total package with a Ford in my eyes. I would also love to see Nissian, which I currently own one and think its the best truck I have ever owned hands down, build a diesel. Same goes for Toyota. I would not touch another GM for a few reasons but mainly because of the whole government bail out deal. I have given Dodge and GM a try in the last 6 years and they just let me down and cost me money in the form of lost business due to down time. Fords have done me right. I have owned about a dozen since 1997, of which 3 were diesel, and only 1 night spent in the shop total.

Chris

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Yes, my Dodge 2500 was a Hemi. The tranny was a poor match for that truck. It never towed more than 10,000# which I did for 2 years prior with a F-150. No issues with that truck but had 3.55 gears and just could not handle that weight.

As for the gas diesel thing I agree 100% that for most buyers the gas engine makes since. Well kind of. The diesel will give you on average $5,000 more on trade over a gas. The problem is, and this is not being brand loyal, Ford is the only one with a gas engine up to the task being the V-10. GM really screwed up dropping the 8.1L, it was a sweet engine. Dodge had a good start with the 360 and even the V-10 they had back about 10 years ago then went Hemi crazy. I bought into it because of the funny commercials. The reality is its a great car engine but has no place in a truck.

I do know the 6.0 has some issues but the total package of the 04-07 Ford truck is hands down the best total package for that time period. Dodge had a great engine in the 5.9 but the rest of the truck was a step behind the GM and Ford offerings. GM has issues with the Dmax up till 2005, especially with overheating pulling heavy loads. The real issues I have with the GM products is the chassis, its the worst in the class. They also have know problems with the Allison cooling lines, steering shafts, ect.

One last thing then I will stop. Ford sells over 83% diesels in the 3/4 ton and larger class. Dodge and GM sell in the 40% range. As far as total sales go Ford outsells diesel equipped trucks of both Dodge and GM combined. This alone means there are twice as many Ford diesels on the road compared to both GM and Dodge. So yes, it will look like they may have more issues but that is not the case just by numbers alone.

Chris

Chris, I agree with this post 100%. I tow up to capacity of my truck on occasion so I'm in the need not want catergory. Ford superduty's that aren't diesel are hard to find. The fuel economy isn't really to big an issue. Getting the load moving is a big part of the package. With my truck loaded to 12k or so I can move down the highway at 70 with the engine rpms the same as if I was unloaded. I'd need to keep the rpm plenty high with a v-10.

Matt

 

[deerefan]

Not to rain on you parade but your fooling youself. The 6.0 is a poorly designed engine. You will end up with issues, it's got too many area's that can fail. If the truck sits alot you'll end up replacing the turbo. The EGR system will give you issues sooner or later. Your gonna get oil leaks, these are just part of the design of the engine. Now I new this going in but the warranty eased my fears. If you tow heavy enough you will stretch the head bolt and require new gaskets and ARP studs. Read the online forums you'll see. This truck has never been chipped or abused. I run full syn oil and maintain it religiously. There is nothing that causes these issues but poor enginering. The catch 22 on these is they need to be worked. But if you work them these head gasket issues eventually will appear. Now I know others here who are die hard ford guys will debate this til the end. Save your breath, I'm not bashing this truck at all. It's got 80k on it an has served me well. But ford should warranty these common issues that are 100% design flaws. The worst part even when the studs stretch under warranty the repairs include the same bolts. So it's going to happen again. If I was able to do an EGR delete and fix the heads myself maybe I'd feel different. But there are just too many common failure items on this model engine period. But this isn't the thread intent could we please talk about the options I've laid out and not the 6.0.

Matt

You peaked my curiosity with your reply, so I did a little more research. Now, this is pertaining to the truck I own b/c I do not need to know about something I don't own. In 2006, the 6.0 had the fewest warranty claims of the big 3 diesels. To go a little further, I picked up an oasis report on my truck from ford and it had 0 warranty claims...yes, 0. Now, maybe the guy who had it before me had someone other than ford do the repairs, that I do not know. I probably just jinxed myself and the truck will explode tomorrow. Any truck can be a pile of junk. I had an 05 Z71 loaded to the gils and it was in the shop 4 times the first year I had it. It was underpowered to boot, but rode nice and was very nice looking. I sold it when the windshield started leaking. Will I own another GM? Sure, not every truck they make is that way. I love the cummins, more than the powerstroke, but do not care for dodge. As for your situation, a V-10, 7.3 or and 8.1 GM will suit you nicely. If you hate the 6.0, don't buy it. There are several better options for your situation and you fortunately do not have to buy a diesel.

 

[WH401]

I do know the 6.0 has some issues but the total package of the 04-07 Ford truck is hands down the best total package for that time period. Dodge had a great engine in the 5.9 but the rest of the truck was a step behind the GM and Ford offerings. GM has issues with the Dmax up till 2005, especially with overheating pulling heavy loads. The real issues I have with the GM products is the chassis, its the worst in the class. They also have know problems with the Allison cooling lines, steering shafts, ect.

One last thing then I will stop. Ford sells over 83% diesels in the 3/4 ton and larger class. Dodge and GM sell in the 40% range. As far as total sales go Ford outsells diesel equipped trucks of both Dodge and GM combined. This alone means there are twice as many Ford diesels on the road compared to both GM and Dodge. So yes, it will look like they may have more issues but that is not the case just by numbers alone.

Ha, that first paragraph is a crock, " 04-07 Ford truck is hands down the best total package for that time period", that's nothing more than an opinionated fact.

75% of the Powerstrokes on the road are purchased for commercial fleet use because Ford gives the best discount when it comes to that sector, not because their the most popular.

 

[WH401]

...In 2006, the 6.0 had the fewest warranty claims of the big 3 diesels...

In 06' the 6.0 only had the fewest warranty claims out of any other Ford engine, not out of the entire big 3.

 

[deerefan]

In 06' the 6.0 only had the fewest warranty claims out of any other Ford engine, not out of the entire big 3.

You are correct, I went back and looked at it again, it said the big 3 motors FROM FORD (5.4, 6.0 and V-10) available in their super duty trucks. For some reason I read it as the big 3 as in ford chevy and dodge. ooopps

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I have read the same about the warranty claims. There were alot of warranty claims denied by ford because of guys running tuners. If Chris were to need any warranty work they'd deny the claims as he has run tuners. That claim could very well be PR bs. The biggest issue with this engine was the tech. The ford techs weren't competantly trained in the beginning. The 6.0 was from another plant than the 7.3 they'd had years to get to know.

Matt

 

[Ryan03]

My biggest personal issue with recent diesel Ford Super Duties, 6.0 and 6.4, is the fact that the cab/clip have to be raised off the chassis to do any major repairs to the engine. To some, this may not mean much, but to a guy like me who wants to keep a truck for 9 or ten years and 200k, it is a real deal breaker with regard to Ford.

I have read that the New Scorpion powerplant will be serviceable with the cab on the chassis, I realy hope this is true, as the SD's have some features I realy like. I may be Driving a new SD in 2013 or 2014

 

[capt_met]

a year ago i sold a 3500 chevy. hands down the nicest truck i have ever owned or ridden. this is my opinion of course. the truck was 4wd drw with the duramax allison combo. had the LB7 series engine. i pulled the stock exhaust and ran a mbrp 4" from the manifold back, added egt and boost gauges and then programmed it with superchips on low. this combination regularly towed 14,000 lbs. on the bumper. very slight squatting when hooked up. at any speed from interstate to offroad ( yes i often towed this offroad in the mountains of east tn.) i never had any issues with the truck. the interior was beyond plush and very quiet despite the straight pipe. i think if you are looking to tow heavy down the road you might look into the 3500 size. i would go this route over the 2500. sometimes overkill is good.
good luck,

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

If the gm 3500 wasn't so rare I'd be all over that option. I'm not 100% sure but I think I compared gvw's of the gm and ford trucks and there was a large gap. I believe the drw gm was 11500 and the ford drw 350 13400. I maybe wrong on this but I'm pretty sure I've seen it.

Matt

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

If the gm 3500 wasn't so rare I'd be all over that option. I'm not 100% sure but I think I compared gvw's of the gm and ford trucks and there was a large gap. I believe the drw gm was 11500 and the ford drw 350 13400. I maybe wrong on this but I'm pretty sure I've seen it.

Matt

In 2008 all versions of the GMC DRW / 3500 have a GVWR of 11,400. Max. Gross Trailer Weight is 15,900 - 16,500. Low is for Crew 4x4 and high for Regular Cab 4x4.