What would you do?

[GreatWhitehunter]

I know these threads are all to common, I've even posted similar threads but here it goes. I've got an 04 6.0 PSD in a x cab 250. I still owe money on it and it's out of warranty. I have had issues with it but all were fixed under warranty and none too major. Well now I've got symtoms of the head bolts stretching while towing. I've come to the conclusion I'd rather get rid of it than fix it since the repair cost is out of sight and this may only be the begining with the 6.0. So I've got a few ideas floating around and would like some input. I've got two small children so I'd like the new truck to be a crew cab. I've considered a F-350 v10 because it's a good compromise over the diesel. I'm sure I'll be disapointed in towing compared to the diesel so that has me concerned. I have a small light brush clearing and dirt work biz so I tow mostly on the weekends right now. I was thinking of buying lightly used since I really hate the hit you take after you drive off the lot. I'd really like to get into an 07 GMC 2500hd with an allision and dmax. But I want the miles to be at or under 30k. I need to trade my truck in so a private sale is out. I've been kicking around the idea of getting a medium duty truck cheap and then buying a 1/2 or suv to tote the family around in. My wifes got a large suv so I'll be driving alone most of the time. I want a truck that will tow any trailer I need to and still be able to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck on the side of the road. I also want the next truck to be long term. We'd like to buy a 5th wheel camper in the next few years once the kids get a little bigger so I want to make sure the truck will be up to the task. I was thinking a F-450 crew cab with a 6.4 would be a great choice but this 6.0 has really made me rethink this. I also don't want to deal with all the emissions BS that's only getting worse. Who new that buying a vehicles would be such a tough decision. So please no brand bashing just some constructive critiszms.

Matt

 

[deerefan]

I know these threads are all to common, I've even posted similar threads but here it goes. I've got an 04 6.0 PSD in a x cab 250. I still owe money on it and it's out of warranty. I have had issues with it but all were fixed under warranty and none too major. Well now I've got symtoms of the head bolts stretching while towing. I've come to the conclusion I'd rather get rid of it than fix it since the repair cost is out of sight and this may only be the begining with the 6.0. So I've got a few ideas floating around and would like some input. I've got two small children so I'd like the new truck to be a crew cab. I've considered a F-350 v10 because it's a good compromise over the diesel. I'm sure I'll be disapointed in towing compared to the diesel so that has me concerned. I have a small light brush clearing and dirt work biz so I tow mostly on the weekends right now. I was thinking of buying lightly used since I really hate the hit you take after you drive off the lot. I'd really like to get into an 07 GMC 2500hd with an allision and dmax. But I want the miles to be at or under 30k. I need to trade my truck in so a private sale is out. I've been kicking around the idea of getting a medium duty truck cheap and then buying a 1/2 or suv to tote the family around in. My wifes got a large suv so I'll be driving alone most of the time. I want a truck that will tow any trailer I need to and still be able to be confident that I'm not going to get stuck on the side of the road. I also want the next truck to be long term. We'd like to buy a 5th wheel camper in the next few years once the kids get a little bigger so I want to make sure the truck will be up to the task. I was thinking a F-450 crew cab with a 6.4 would be a great choice but this 6.0 has really made me rethink this. I also don't want to deal with all the emissions BS that's only getting worse. Who new that buying a vehicles would be such a tough decision. So please no brand bashing just some constructive critiszms.

Matt

I did a lot of research here and at other sites before buying an 06 F250 Lariat Fx4 w/ 51,160 miles. It was a lease and thankfully did not have a hitch in the bed so I knew it was not used to tow too much weight. I paid 28000 for the truck and it tows very well. The 05-06 6.0 has proven to be a very durable engine. Most of the comparable chevy's I looked at were a little more expensive. I also did a carfax on the truck and it came back clean. I do not think you can go wrong with a truck from these years. I cannot offer any input on the 6.4. All my friends are still driving either 7.3s of 6.0s.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If you are planning on getting a larger trailer I would stay away from the GM. Its 8,800# gvwr is not much better than a F-150 with the heavy duty payload package. Yes, it does have a diesel but they really lack on payload. Watch the 2500's running down the highway with 5th wheels of any size and they are struggling. Most guys around here have to air bag them to take the load. Same thing I had with my 2005 Gm 3500, it only had 9,900#. My F-250 for example has 10,000# and my F-350 has 11,500#. The GM trucks, just like the Fords and Dodges are not without issues.

If it were me I would either have the heads re studded which is a common thing on early 6.0's or get a 2006 F-350 SRW.

While the V-10 is a good compromise my uncle has one in a F-350 4x4 and gets 12 mpg and 6-8 towing. Same thing with my co worker who has one in a Excursion. Great for the occasional tower but not for a guy who makes a living with it.

Chris

 

[devildog1]

The only thing I can add to the reply's above is, I agree with Chris, have the heads re studded and keep the truck until your financially able to purchase a new or newer one. I too have seen the 2500's on the road with large campers squatting all the way down the road. I do know this because I had two! One with the Dmax Allison and an other with the 8.1 with Allison.Both had great towing, never a problem---except a squatting rear end. That's what lead me to my F350 SRW 4X4 with a 6.0, handles the load of my 34' RV so much better. Good luck with your decision.
DevilDog

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I did a lot of research here and at other sites before buying an 06 F250 Lariat Fx4 w/ 51,160 miles. It was a lease and thankfully did not have a hitch in the bed so I knew it was not used to tow too much weight. I paid 28000 for the truck and it tows very well. The 05-06 6.0 has proven to be a very durable engine. Most of the comparable chevy's I looked at were a little more expensive. I also did a carfax on the truck and it came back clean. I do not think you can go wrong with a truck from these years. I cannot offer any input on the 6.4. All my friends are still driving either 7.3s of 6.0s.

Not to rain on you parade but your fooling youself. The 6.0 is a poorly designed engine. You will end up with issues, it's got too many area's that can fail. If the truck sits alot you'll end up replacing the turbo. The EGR system will give you issues sooner or later. Your gonna get oil leaks, these are just part of the design of the engine. Now I new this going in but the warranty eased my fears. If you tow heavy enough you will stretch the head bolt and require new gaskets and ARP studs. Read the online forums you'll see. This truck has never been chipped or abused. I run full syn oil and maintain it religiously. There is nothing that causes these issues but poor enginering. The catch 22 on these is they need to be worked. But if you work them these head gasket issues eventually will appear. Now I know others here who are die hard ford guys will debate this til the end. Save your breath, I'm not bashing this truck at all. It's got 80k on it an has served me well. But ford should warranty these common issues that are 100% design flaws. The worst part even when the studs stretch under warranty the repairs include the same bolts. So it's going to happen again. If I was able to do an EGR delete and fix the heads myself maybe I'd feel different. But there are just too many common failure items on this model engine period. But this isn't the thread intent could we please talk about the options I've laid out and not the 6.0.

Matt

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

If you are planning on getting a larger trailer I would stay away from the GM. Its 8,800# gvwr is not much better than a F-150 with the heavy duty payload package. Yes, it does have a diesel but they really lack on payload. Watch the 2500's running down the highway with 5th wheels of any size and they are struggling. Most guys around here have to air bag them to take the load. Same thing I had with my 2005 Gm 3500, it only had 9,900#. My F-250 for example has 10,000# and my F-350 has 11,500#. The GM trucks, just like the Fords and Dodges are not without issues.

If it were me I would either have the heads re studded which is a common thing on early 6.0's or get a 2006 F-350 SRW.

While the V-10 is a good compromise my uncle has one in a F-350 4x4 and gets 12 mpg and 6-8 towing. Same thing with my co worker who has one in a Excursion. Great for the occasional tower but not for a guy who makes a living with it.

Chris

The head gasket issue in not just an issue with the early 6.0. The bolts used are the same for all years of the 6.0. Not change at all. Read the post on Ford Truck Enthusist. There were some changes to location of sensors on the early builds but the oil leaks and other common failures are prevelent through all years of production. Not if I had the skills to repair the heads myself in my drive way I'd have no real issue but that's not the case. The cost of the repais is over 3k. After which I've still got all the other problem area's like oil leaks and EGR issues. There are alot of 2500hd pulling huge campers here. I do notice most are using air bags. The gvw point is well take hence my reference to the medium duty trucks.

Matt

 

[dodge man]

How about a Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummings diesel? A good choice in my book. In my opinion, the difference between a diesel and a gas motor is not that great in terms of towing power. Don't get me wrong, I think a diesel is better but the big difference is in economy, not towing power. The gas motor is going to rev alot higher when being worked hard. A lot of people think this is bad for them or that they are being over worked, but thats not the case. Gas motors just have a much higher rpm power band. When I looked at new trucks, I decided I could buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost between a gas and diesel truck. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a deal on a Ford V10, go for it. That said, I would love to have a turbo Cummings in my driveway.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

If you are planning on getting a larger trailer I would stay away from the GM. Its 8,800# gvwr is not much better than a F-150 with the heavy duty payload package. Yes, it does have a diesel but they really lack on payload. Watch the 2500's running down the highway with 5th wheels of any size and they are struggling. Most guys around here have to air bag them to take the load. Same thing I had with my 2005 Gm 3500, it only had 9,900#. My F-250 for example has 10,000# and my F-350 has 11,500#. The GM trucks, just like the Fords and Dodges are not without issues.

If it were me I would either have the heads re studded which is a common thing on early 6.0's or get a 2006 F-350 SRW.

While the V-10 is a good compromise my uncle has one in a F-350 4x4 and gets 12 mpg and 6-8 towing. Same thing with my co worker who has one in a Excursion. Great for the occasional tower but not for a guy who makes a living with it.

Chris

How about a Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummings diesel? A good choice in my book. In my opinion, the difference between a diesel and a gas motor is not that great in terms of towing power. Don't get me wrong, I think a diesel is better but the big difference is in economy, not towing power. The gas motor is going to rev alot higher when being worked hard. A lot of people think this is bad for them or that they are being over worked, but thats not the case. Gas motors just have a much higher rpm power band. When I looked at new trucks, I decided I could buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost between a gas and diesel truck. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a deal on a Ford V10, go for it. That said, I would love to have a turbo Cummings in my driveway.

If the dodge trannys were better I'd consider it. The overall fit and finish of the dodge leaves alot to be desired. The torque of the diesel is hard to beat. A gas engine in the hills here is not the most enjoyable ride.

Matt

 

[dodge man]

Have you driven a Dodge lately? I'm not saying the fit and finish is better on a Dodge, but it is as good as anybodys. We have Fords and GMC's at work so I do have other trucks to compare to. As far as automatics go, I think all of the big three have had problems at some time in the past, but my understanding is that the newer Dodge trannys are pretty good. I've owned alot of Dodges over the years and never had any problems, but I've never towed with my trucks really hard or often. Keep in mind you aren't happy with your Ford, so that leaves you with a Dodge or GM product as your choices.
And hey, you brought up the idea of a V10 not me, but I don't think its a bad one, unless you are towing every day.

 

[WH401]

How about a Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummings diesel? A good choice in my book. In my opinion, the difference between a diesel and a gas motor is not that great in terms of towing power. Don't get me wrong, I think a diesel is better but the big difference is in economy, not towing power. The gas motor is going to rev alot higher when being worked hard. A lot of people think this is bad for them or that they are being over worked, but thats not the case. Gas motors just have a much higher rpm power band. When I looked at new trucks, I decided I could buy a lot of fuel for the difference in cost between a gas and diesel truck. I guess what I'm saying is if you find a deal on a Ford V10, go for it. That said, I would love to have a turbo Cummings in my driveway.

Not to go off topic, but the difference of a gasser vs a diesel in towing ability is like comparing black to white, theres no comparison. Towing ability comes down to torque, and where it's made. A gasser typically makes peak torque around 4k RPM, which will cause you to lack any kind of off the line power, not to mention hill climbing power, unless your constantly running at that RPM. Today's diesels make peak torque around 1400 RPM, and have the torque at idle what most of today's gassers have at 4k rpm. The diesel isn't going to struggle at all with the weight because it can almost instantaneously make peak torque. Going up a hill, dependent on the size, a diesel most likely isn't going to have to down shift or unlock the torque converter to keep it's speed. In a gasser the transmission will have to unlock the converter, downshift, and flash the RPM's up a few thousands just to stay moving briskly.

As far as RPM's, turning at high RPM's for a diesel is nothing, with the 5.9 Cummins being purpose built to be run 24/7 at redline. Diesels are overbuilt from the start because of their high compression, which also gives them so much of there durability. A gasser on the other hand, compare the cylinder rings on a gasser to that of diesel, or any other part for that matter, the difference is tremendous. Towing 24/7 a gasser would never be able to hang with a diesel, and I don't just mean in performance. Not to mention, what do you think all those RPM's on the gasser are going to do for you fuel economy, I don't even want to think about it. Unloaded I can do 16 - 18, for a 4wd 8k lb truck, with the aerodynamics of brick, that's much better then you be even lucky to get with a 3/4 ton and up gasser. Loaded it depends on the load, I've seen as low as 13 and as high as 15.





As far as Dodge transmissions not being good, that's more of a belief than actual fact. The automatic Dodge has always put behind the Cummins could have used a tighter torque converter, but other then that there pretty stout pieces. Most reliability issues come from pour user input, i. e., flogging it from stop light to stop light, wondering why a stock transmission doesn't hold the extra 200 hp from a chip, or misuse when towing, etc... My 92' has the original a518 in it with 171k, and it spent the first 55k of it's life towing. For those that don't know the a518 is an overdrive equipped version of the 727 with a non-locking torque converter, talk about some heat production. The 48re behind the last generation of the 5.9 is every bit as reliable as it's Ford or Chevy counterpart. The new 6 speed behind the 6.7 Cummins is every bit as good as the Allison, but has the added benefit of a standard exhaust brake.




On the other hand, anything is better than driving a 6.0 Ford, which is the worst monstrosity to ever grace trucks larger than 3/4 tons. Plugging EGR's, grenading turbo's, weak head studs and gaskets, oil leaks, shreading timing chains... the list goes on.

 

[blueriver]

If the dodge trannys were better I'd consider it. The overall fit and finish of the dodge leaves alot to be desired. The torque of the diesel is hard to beat. A gas engine in the hills here is not the most enjoyable ride.

Matt

Always a Ford owner ... and always used ...Until 1999 thats when I bought my first New truck a 99 F-350 PSD before 18,000 miles They had been in the rear end, twice. In the Transmission 3 times, the injector pump once ... I argued back and forth and tried to get rid of it and the Same Ford dealer I bought it from tryed to steal it back on a trade. Thats when I owned my first Dodge New in the Fall of 99 and traded then for another new one in 03 and in 04 traded again for another new one (realized I did need FWD)... I used them do not abuse them. I have a 20' GN cattle trailer, 25' GN flatbed and I haul with them .... Neither one of them have been in the shop for anything other than a/c AND all three had the same a/c problem ... They are all automatic's and I will buy Dodge again ....

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I haven't owned a dodge but had a few work trucks that were. I had a 1 ton drw in 98 and towed alot with it. THe tranny was replace 5 times under warranty. We had a fleet of dodge vans that were having the same issues. I friend of mine has an04 3500 cummins with manual trans. He's had that thing out of his truck quite a few times. He isn't running chip either.I've had several other bad dodge experiances as well. I think comparing the interiors of dodge to either of the other two is a joke. Talk about plan jane boring.
The gas diesel debate is very valid. I know if I were to go v10 I'd end up disappointed before long. I'd like some input on the meduim duty idea.

Matt

 

[Ryan03]

Not to rain on you parade but your fooling youself. The 6.0 is a poorly designed engine. You will end up with issues, it's got too many area's that can fail. If the truck sits alot you'll end up replacing the turbo.

Matt

I agree with you on some aspects of the 6.0, and am by no means a fan of them. The variable pitch vanes seizing on the turbo is what I beleive you are referring to in the section of your post that I quoted. This is not just a Ford issue, GM has had a variable pitch turbo on the Dmax since 2004.5, and cummins has been using them for a few years as well.

If I were in your shoes, I would have your current truck fixed by a reputable diesel tech with a lift[cab has to come off]. Then drive it for another 60 or 80k. 3 grand is a big nut to crack all at once, but the note on a CC Dmax 4x4 with 30k miles will be at least 500 bucks a month, and in 6 monthes of payments, you could have fixed your ford and been done with it. I would be a little leery buying a big ticket truck that is 2 yrs old with low miles on it, chances are it was a pos that somebody pawned off to the dealer, regardless of make.

I myself drive a Dmax that I bought new and have put 97k on, I have been a diesel tech for a large county highway dept for 13 years, and work on Internationals every day, as well as ISB cummins and 6.5 chevs and Dmaxes, as well as the vehicles they are in. I know the weak area's of the 6.0 well, and what it takes to repair one. It is not a time bomb, just has a crappy egr system and not enough head bolts by design. I would not be afraid to lift the cab, yank the heads and get them checked, reseal the topend, put it back together and drive it for 60 more k till paid off.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I agree with you on some aspects of the 6.0, and am by no means a fan of them. The variable pitch vanes seizing on the turbo is what I beleive you are referring to in the section of your post that I quoted. This is not just a Ford issue, GM has had a variable pitch turbo on the Dmax since 2004.5, and cummins has been using them for a few years as well.

If I were in your shoes, I would have your current truck fixed by a reputable diesel tech with a lift[cab has to come off]. Then drive it for another 60 or 80k. 3 grand is a big nut to crack all at once, but the note on a CC Dmax 4x4 with 30k miles will be at least 500 bucks a month, and in 6 monthes of payments, you could have fixed your ford and been done with it. I would be a little leery buying a big ticket truck that is 2 yrs old with low miles on it, chances are it was a pos that somebody pawned off to the dealer, regardless of make.

I myself drive a Dmax that I bought new and have put 97k on, I have been a diesel tech for a large county highway dept for 13 years, and work on Internationals every day, as well as ISB cummins and 6.5 chevs and Dmaxes, as well as the vehicles they are in. I know the weak area's of the 6.0 well, and what it takes to repair one. It is not a time bomb, just has a crappy egr system and not enough head bolts by design. I would not be afraid to lift the cab, yank the heads and get them checked, reseal the topend, put it back together and drive it for 60 more k till paid off.

Ryan, thank you very much for your reply. This is the type of reply I was hoping to get. The turbo was replaced at 30k and I've made sure to run the truck hot to keep the exhaust system as soot free as possible. I know that guy that are capable are replacing their head stud and gaskets to prevent the issue in the first place. I would love to do the EGR delete but don't think it will pass inspection with emissions. Is this correct? I owe about 17k on this truck. My local dealer is not very good but there is a good diesel repair shop near by. I would really like the crew cab but could live with the x cab for now. I know I've read that it's easier to remove the heads with the cab off. The drivers side head doesn't look to bad to get to but the passengers looks tough. I wish I there was a local diesel tech that could help me with the repair. This way I could keep the cost down and get more familiar with the engine..

Matt

 

[Ryan03]

Ryan, thank you very much for your reply. This is the type of reply I was hoping to get. The turbo was replaced at 30k and I've made sure to run the truck hot to keep the exhaust system as soot free as possible. I know that guy that are capable are replacing their head stud and gaskets to prevent the issue in the first place. I would love to do the EGR delete but don't think it will pass inspection with emissions. Is this correct? I owe about 17k on this truck. My local dealer is not very good but there is a good diesel repair shop near by. I would really like the crew cab but could live with the x cab for now. I know I've read that it's easier to remove the heads with the cab off. The drivers side head doesn't look to bad to get to but the passengers looks tough. I wish I there was a local diesel tech that could help me with the repair. This way I could keep the cost down and get more familiar with the engine..

Matt

I am not familiar with your states emissions test, so I do not want to speculate as to whether or not it fail with the egr bypassed. In Ohio, they sniff the exhaust, and scan the computer through the obd2 port, and I would not want to take that test with a bypassed egr.

I have heard that there are guys that can R&R the heads with the cab on the chassis, I have never seen it done that way, and after doing two top end reseals on 6.0's with the cabs removed, just do not beleive this can be done with the cab on and maintain any degree of quality in workmanship due to the space constraints in the rear of the engine compartment.

It takes a very good tech with all around experience to do this right. There is much more involed than diesel engine work, the tech must also be familiar with ford trucks, and know how to remove interior components without breaking the clips[sill plates, kick panels, etc], be familiar with disabling the air bag system, removing the cab, etc. The truck is actualy made to be taken apart this way, and the entire front clip can stay on the cab, even the grill stays in, likewise, the front bumper stays on the frame. Be very selective who you let do this. This is one of those cases where cheaper is not nececariy better.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Ryan, thank you very much for your reply. This is the type of reply I was hoping to get. The turbo was replaced at 30k and I've made sure to run the truck hot to keep the exhaust system as soot free as possible. I know that guy that are capable are replacing their head stud and gaskets to prevent the issue in the first place. I would love to do the EGR delete but don't think it will pass inspection with emissions. Is this correct? I owe about 17k on this truck. My local dealer is not very good but there is a good diesel repair shop near by. I would really like the crew cab but could live with the x cab for now. I know I've read that it's easier to remove the heads with the cab off. The drivers side head doesn't look to bad to get to but the passengers looks tough. I wish I there was a local diesel tech that could help me with the repair. This way I could keep the cost down and get more familiar with the engine..

Matt

I hate to say it but if you owe 17K you are upside down on this truck and are stuck. I agree with Ryan. Do what we both say and get Head Studs put on it and drive it like you stole it.

By the way I know about a dozen guys who have Ford 6.0's and about half a dozen with Dmax and Cummins and the Fords have been by far the best as far as maintenance go. The 3 6.0's I take care of are dry as a bone, no drips or leaks. All 3 have chips and we tow heavy, over 15,000# with zero complaints. The guys with Dodges have had tranny problems. I was one of these guys who had 3 trannys in a 04 2500 before 60,000 miles.

Chris

 

[WH401]

On a side not, if your looking to fix the truck, Ford Power Stroke 6.0L Parts Upgrades from BulletProofDiesel.com just came out with a redesigned EGR for 6.0's that they claim will fix the issues that stock ones have.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I hate to say it but if you owe 17K you are upside down on this truck and are stuck. I agree with Ryan. Do what we both say and get Head Studs put on it and drive it like you stole it.

By the way I know about a dozen guys who have Ford 6.0's and about half a dozen with Dmax and Cummins and the Fords have been by far the best as far as maintenance go. The 3 6.0's I take care of are dry as a bone, no drips or leaks. All 3 have chips and we tow heavy, over 15,000# with zero complaints. The guys with Dodges have had tranny problems. I was one of these guys who had 3 trannys in a 04 2500 before 60,000 miles.

Chris

Chris, do a kbb trade in value and I'm right on track. Your one of the few that have had no issues. The chips are almost always the cause of a lot of issues. The head stud issue is very common on chipped trucks. I'm not saying it's a bad engine it just has too many common failures. The turbo failure can be avoided with proper operation. But I can't see anyway of keeping the head studs from stretching unless you don't tow with it. And why would you buy a diesel truck if towing wasn't part of the deal. The bed plate oil leaks are another real common failure. Then of course there the ford front end. I've already replaced the steering box and ball joints. Plus alot of bushings. I don't plow with it but realize the engine itself is a load. Again this thread isn't about bashing the 6.0. It was rushed to production and was a good bump in hp over the 7.3. It was never had any trouble with any trailer I've needed to tow. I've thought about repair the hg but just feel that trading may be the best option. There are some good deals around right now. I was wondering about ordering a truck. Do you still get to negotiate and get rebates/incentives when you order them?

Matt

 

[Diamondpilot]

I hope you make out ok Matt. I know what KBB says but I find that when the deals are good on new trucks that value is out the door. I have a 2004 F-250 that is paid off and I would not give it up for what they are going to give me on trade. Its not given me a days trouble with about 70K on it. I drive it hard and keep it in 120 RWHP on my chip unless towing then I go with 80 RWHP. I have said this before and will say it again. The 6.0 likes to be beaten. I roast the tires once a day just for good measure. I feel this keeps the EGR and turbo vanes clean by running them hard.

Chris

 

[jcmseven]

Matt,

The 6.0L is not a bad engine--it is also not a good engine for its use in the 250 and up truck. This engine was designed by Navistar to be a lower power, more utilitarian engine. Many of the pieces in the motor are not built to super heavy duty standards. I would forego adding power adding chips, etc., to this engine if it is to last--even it is the thing to do. It might also be reasonable to try redoing the studs and seeing how it goes, but if you find a reasonable buyer you might come out ahead there just to sell. It sounds like your confidence in the motor has been shaken, and when that happens it is often easier to just trade--if you can. A 7.3L if you could find one might make the most cost effective choice. Not quite as much stock power but a goodly amount of torque and more reliability. Ford makes a nice tough work truck.

I could not agree with Chris........LESS on the GM line. Chris is a fine fellow and he and I both like Fords, but I do not agree that the GM line is not up to snuff here. I have a 2009 GMC and while there have been some updates v. 2006-2007 I can tell you my GMC pulls better than my 6.4L Ford--which incidentally had an 8800# GVWR also--but weighed more itself. I do not know what mutant line of GM trucks Chris might have been exposed to, but my truck pulls up to 11,000 pound bumper pull loads without any trouble. It does not squat or wobble and the power and tranny performance is great. It also gets about 14 mpg pulling those type loads. My friend and coworker pulls a 15,000 pound fifth wheel triple axle toy-hauler with his 2007 GMC and has had zero troubles. I do NOT agree that the GM line will not handle the load. The newer ones have been hopped up a little but one of our OR CNRA's has a 2006 he pulls 12-14K gooseneck horse trailers with and he also does not have a problem. I have multiple other examples but suffice it to say I have never heard of a GMC or 2500 Chevy having problems pulling up to and beyond its rated weight. The concern here is that those who have these trucks do not sell them often and when they do--and have a diesel--they bring top dollar (where I live). You might wish to look at a gas GM 2500 truck, they might be more available. These trucks are better daily drivers than my 2008 Ford was, though I liked my Ford's styling and imposing size better. I cannot comment on Dodge as I have never owned one; but family members of mine who have them like them. It is hard to beat a Ford or GMC to me when looking at the whole package though.

My suggestions: look for a 6.4L (good engine--incentives right now) or a used 7.3L (2002-2003) in good shape or repair/upgrade your 6.0L. If these are not found a V10 Ford or gas GM 2500 might be your next best option. If you find a good deal on a GM 2500 with the Duramax, to me that trumps the previous choices but they are hard to find and usually pretty pricey. Let us know what you decide. I do like Chris BTW he is a good man and an "online friend" in the forum with whom I usually agree, I just cannot agree with him on the towing prowess of the new GM products. How can one expect better than no problems at maximum spec weight?? Having owned both a Ford 6.4L diesel and a GMC 6.6L Duramax in less than 2 years the similarities and differences are pretty fresh to me.

John M