Help! - I am gunshy!!!

[Baby Grand]

But I do remember having bought a used Nissan Sentra, and my grandfather bought me a bottle of Slick 50. I am not sure what was in that can, but after I changed the oil during the winter, I have to take a road trip. I could not get that car to heat up in 5th gear. I had to run 4th just to keep from freezing.

A bit off topic, but that's interesting - I had an 88 MAzda MX6 that I treated with Slick50 after the break-in period. Zip for heat. Replaced the thermostat with no change. Replaced it again with a high temperature 'stat. That allowed me to almost defrost the windshield, but my feet were still freezing. Then I put a piece of masonite with a few holes over the radiator and that got me some more heat, but not much. As a kid I was sold by Andy Granatelli and his turbine car, but by the time I actually owned a car I was more fixated on the PTFE in Slick50. Never did figure out if the Slick50 had anything to do with the heat or even if it did anything good for the motor.

Back to the OP's question - I'm with many here who recommend using the specifed engine oil and filter and that's it. One of the parameters that is used to design journal and rolling element bearings is the type of oil. The selection of the oil determines, in part, what the operating clearances of the bearings will be. Any oil additive that changes the properties of the oil does not get taken into account by the engineers who designed the bearings, so putting that stuff in your crankcase is really rolling the dice. You have to ask yourself, do you feel lucky?

-Jim

 

[Dr. Bob]

John Thomas:
I remember used motor in glass bottles! Man, that brings back memories. You much be an old fart like me?

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

John Thomas:
I remember used motor in glass bottles! Man, that brings back memories. You much be an old fart like me?

I'm not old, (62 ain't old, is it?) Ky was just a few years behind and was still using them bottles of oil in the early 60's. I saw some of those bottles with the metal screw on tops for sale a couple of weeks ago in of all places a Antique store.

 

[veresjwv]

John Thomas:
I remember used motor in glass bottles! Man, that brings back memories. You much be an old fart like me?

I am not old enought to remember glass bottles, but I can remember cans that you had to shove a pour spout into if you were lucky enough to have a pour spout. If not you would poke a screwdriver through it in two places and then pour it all over the engine because you couldn't direct the flow. AHH the good ole days!!!

 

[bp fick]

Additives prey on two unrealistic hopes. The first type preys on the belief in magic that a "mechanic in a bottle" can somehow "fix" or at least negate worn rings, seals, or bearings. Well, there is no mechanic in a bottle.

The second kind of additive is similar in that it too hopes for the genie in the bottle to somehow add even more goodies to the oil, that ones engine will just run forever and do so incredibly efficiently as it does. Not too likely that a bottle of any additive will add anything to a top grade, top shelf motor oil that already has the very best additive package that technology provides.

Finally, there is the "if a little is good, a lot will be even better" temptation. Somehow even MORE additives than the oil already has in it will make it even better.

 

[firefighter jim]

I'm not old, (62 ain't old, is it?) Ky was just a few years behind and was still using them bottles of oil in the early 60's. I saw some of those bottles with the metal screw on tops for sale a couple of weeks ago in of all places a Antique store.

Believe it or not,,,I have 2 of those old glass oil bottles and stamped steel nozzles that go with them and guess what I use at oil change time....You got it! They work great! By the way,,,I m not too far behind you in the age department,,,,,,,,,,,,,59. Jim

 

[megaboz]

This appears to me to be more of a coolant issue than a lubrication issue. You may want to consider that your thermostat had some way stuck fully open or had malfunctioned which would have nothing to do with the lubrication of the engine. (Slick 50) It may have later become unstck and started working right. Engine thermostats will do that and drives people crazy. A lot of times we relate a malfunction or a fix to something totally unrelated to an occurance or event that actually has nothing to do with the problem or fix. I have had this happen to me many times through life. I rocked my B7800 one time on a hill because it wouldn't start and decided rocking it was the answer then I unplugged and reattached the lugs on the seat safety cutoff switch and decided that was the answer but later figured out that it was probably the foot pedal not being dead center the whole time. When I tried the other fixes I was touching the foot pedal and recentering it which let the tractor start. I hear people tell of problems and fixes which puzzle me because I logically know that problem and the fix they describe can not be related but they swear to it.

You may be right. At the time that is what I attributed to it.

But to bring things back to topic, some additives do have merrit, but typically if you change your fluids regularly before they have completely worn out there isn't much of a need for them.

 

[Dr. Bob]

What about all of those diesel truck fanatics that add antioxidants to their oil? I read the Powerstroke website and they are always sending their oil off for analysis and adding stuff to it. Anyone familar with this train of thought? I have two Powerstroke diesels and have never added anything to the oil. I just follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

By the way, I'm 58 and lived across the river from Kentucky (in Ohio). When you are a teenager you don't have the money to buy first class oil. Just enough for gas and a six pack!

 

[megaboz]

What about all of those diesel truck fanatics that add antioxidants to their oil? I read the Powerstroke website and they are always sending their oil off for analysis and adding stuff to it. Anyone familar with this train of thought? I have two Powerstroke diesels and have never added anything to the oil. I just follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

By the way, I'm 58 and lived across the river from Kentucky (in Ohio). When you are a teenager you don't have the money to buy first class oil. Just enough for gas and a six pack!

There are many reasons for doing the analysis. I don't know about the additives being added to the oil.

Unlike a lot of us with smaller tractors, the diesel truck engine costs about $10,000. Also, not many of us try to add 25 to 50% more power to our tractors. There is the issue that the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) on the newer trucks, that many of them are ending up with Diesel in the oil. I recently just had my truck done and there was about a half quart of diesel in the oil. This shortens the drain/change interval.

Also with the analysis it is possible to catch things going wrong before it totally breaks the motor or makes the repair even more expensive. Excessive ring wear, bearings, etc because of the different metals, you could preempt an engine failure with an oil analysis.

It is also possible with some of the new filter technology and syntehetic oils to extend the drain intervals in diesel vehicles. Amsoil claims that on a diesel engine you should be able to get about 20,000 miles between changes with just their synthetic filter and oil (that is assuming that you are not getting diesel added back to your oil pan thanks to the DPF cycles).

Our vehicles are abused far more than our tractors (well I expect there might be a couple of people who may abuse their tractor). Regular fluid changes with the approved fluids and filter replacements will take care of our tractors without the need for super special bottles of additives.

TLC always makes things last longer.

 

[Hvytrkmech]

What about all of those diesel truck fanatics that add antioxidants to their oil? I read the Powerstroke website and they are always sending their oil off for analysis and adding stuff to it. Anyone familar with this train of thought? I have two Powerstroke diesels and have never added anything to the oil. I just follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

By the way, I'm 58 and lived across the river from Kentucky (in Ohio). When you are a teenager you don't have the money to buy first class oil. Just enough for gas and a six pack!

The main reason for doing an UOA (used oil analysis) is to see the actual condition of the engine. A UOA will show different wear metals, source metals, additives and the level of additives left in the oil at the end of a given service period. It will also show fuel dilution %'s, coolant contamination and silicate contamination, (air ingested contaminates). Doing a UOA on any engine is beneficial. I do UOA's on all my equipment at my shop, (18 trucks), it has helped me find excessive bearing wear affording the opportunity to correct the issue's before a catastrophic failure. I also have done UOA's on my B7610, ( one test at 97hrs) both hydraulic oil and engine oil. As well as doing both transmission fluid and engine oil on my Cummins powered pick up.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Megaboz and Hvytrkmech:

Thanks for the replies.
So, for diesels that do REAL heavy duty work, oil anaysis is a possible way to detect that something is going wrong before it breaks.

 

[megaboz]

Megaboz and Hvytrkmech:

Thanks for the replies.
So, for diesels that do REAL heavy duty work, oil anaysis is a possible way to detect that something is going wrong before it breaks.

I wouldn't limit it to just real heavy duty work, but yes, it can help but usually you need to do the analysis more than once. Actually the more you do it the more you will be able to see a trend if there are issues. A first time oil analysis on a new engine won't really tell you much because there is a certain amount of break in, some metals will be higher due to this.

I included my first/last one that I had done just as an example. I'm sure different places do different test, but in the end I think they should all test for about the same things, some might just test for more.

 

[KubotaJoe1977]

On new equipment,the tolorances are very tight. Sometimes adding additives can cause the tractor to lock up. If your tractor requires additives depending on you region and after a break in period. I am sure the manufactor would list it in the spec's.

 

[veresjwv]

Well! I had no idea my question would raise so many issues, I do want to thank everyone for their input. I definitly learned a thing or two about oil and I WILL NOT be using any additives in my new Kubota. I really feel better now that I know. It is just amazing how many additives there are on the shelves that are apparently just a waste of money. I do remember when Slick 50 first came out, thats all you heard about, now not many people have even heard of it!!!
Thanks again!

 

[Chilly807]

I'm a firm believer in good quality plain old oil and regular changes. The only thing I'll add is that if your machine gets worked hard in temperature extremes, you might want to consider a true synthetic oil, such as Mobil 1 or Amsoil if you can find them in the right grades. It stands up a bit better, but costs more. Your choice.

Chilly

 

[EE_Bota]

One additive I am convinced helped me and everyone who I recommended it to who actually used it claimed they really appreciated the difference it made. The product is called "Restore." It is for well worn engines. I would never put in in an engine unless it has better than say 125,000 miles on it. I would not put it in the engine of something really valuable either.

One other additive I think helped me on my ST1100 motorcycle is called "Sea Foam." It seemed to make it much easier to start, and also made it idle better. I don't ride it as often as I should. It has around 65,000 miles on it.

I know certain additives can swell rubber a tiny bit and make a seal quit leaking for a while. (I work in the rubber industry.)

But, none of these engines were new. One problem with an additive is that you have to have a problem that additive can target, and it has to be relatively mild.

Subaru requires a a leak stop additive made in England be added to all Subarus else you void the cooling system warranty.

I know it will be a bit hard to swallow for some of you guys. All I can say is that I am not a flighty person, and I do not subscribe to a lot of voodoo.

As for oil analysis: I find that analysis of oil is in direct proportion to mostly the cost/value of the equipment. Our tiny boxes are never sampled. Our gearboxes from $75,000 to $250,000 are analyzed at least yearly, along with the vibration analysis, and in some cases thermography studies.

 

[texbaylea]

Just a comment about Kubota's SUDT. It not just for cold weather but also for high temperature operation. I use it in my Grand L with HST and have found smoother and quieter operation. We do experience many days over 100 degrees every summer so it's use is warranted.

Vernon

 

[ultrarunner]

I know certain additives can swell rubber a tiny bit and make a seal quit leaking for a while. (I work in the rubber industry.)

Back in college I drove a Plymouth with a power steering pump that was always leaking... I really didn't have the money or time to do a proper repair... I added a pint of power steering sealer and never had to add fluid all the years after that...

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Addatives for cooling systems are another issue than addatives for an engine lubrication system. Cadillac Allante's also require frequent anti freeze changes and 3 or 5 little ginger root based pills go in with each change. They sell them at the GM parts department. You can buy the same products at auto parts places. They seal leaks by clotting at a leak.
I also added Sea foam to the fuel system of a rough running Allante one time. I had talked to a auto parts place and told them my issue. They reached under the counter for this generic looking can/bottle and said to try it. It didn't help/didn't hurt. Later a part had to be replaced in the fuel injection system. Additives for cleaning a fuel delivery problem are also different than additives for the lubrication system and I would use them and do in my diesel fuel. I use a splash of the cetane booster in the white bottle from Wal Mart in each 5 gallons of fuel. I've used it with all of my diesel tractors because of the endorsements that I read about on the 2 different tractor forums after buying my first tractor and the info about it seemed logical to me. Shouldn't hurt and may help. Power Service, I think, is the name of it. A bottle lasts me a couple of years.
The shouldn't hurt and the may help factor is a big issue with me. I steer away from lubrication addatives because some of them may hurt and in 46 years of buying engined products I've never been convinced that they work/help/improve on a properly functioning engine and as engine technology has advanced over those years I'm even less inclined to use them. I've always read the Auto magazines articles over the years concerning the bottled lubrication addatives and haven't found any that offer a valid opinion of support for them other than the pages that have (advertisement) written at the top of the page. Now those pages claim they will keep a new motor new and make an old motor new. In Real Estate sales they call that puffing.

 

[EE_Bota]

Actually, JT, you bring up a point I hinted at, but did not make abundantly clear: I don't ever put any extra additives in an engine that is running right. I always use as close to what the manufacturer recommends as I can come. I dont ALWAYS use the manufacturers filters, but often times I do, if the price is not too much of a premium over generic.

Any doubts I have about following the manufacturers recs comes from the fuel we all buy. Often we are not able to buy the diesel fuel the manufacturer was counting on being used. They change the fuels (both diesel and gasoline) over time, usually having to do with pollution controls. I have my doubts about the lubricity of many diesel fuels. I may be tempted to run a little Red Oil, or ATF at some point, but I have not decided. My gut tells me since I only think there COULD BE a lubricity problem, I should not add any additives because there is not any KNOWN problem.