Rotary Cutter How much weight for tractor for Bush Hog 2715?

[chevy454]

I have very hilly terrain. Do I need extra weight (add fluid to tires)for my Kubota M8540 that already has rear wheel weights and front weights when mowing with the Bush Hog Batwing 2715 that I will purchase this week?

I don't want to get pushed down the hills but I don't want to add weight unnecessarily and lose the power for going uphill either. According to the specs for the batwing it has about 1800 lbs of tongue weight.

BTW I usually drop the front bucket and add 700 lbs of front weight so I can see better when mowing.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm using 2715's behind tractors that weigh in @ just under 8200lbs. They seem to handle that mower in fine fashion. Never tried 'em on anything lighter, so I can't comment beyond that.

 

[Ed1C]

Chevy, assuming you have a cab, your 8540 is just a few pound's lighter than my 9540. If ROPS, the book says weight is about 700# less.

With your wheel weights and front weights you have a lot more weigh than me - but sounds like your hills may be much steeper. I have a few small terraces and gently sloping hills, but use no extra weight. I also drop my bucket for visibility. I've never felt bossed around by my 5515 that is 5,300# and has similar tongue weight as the cutter you plan to buy (congrats - you will enjoy it).

A few times going up hill I've spun a rear tire, but have hit the diff lock or put it in 4WD and I'm quickly back in business. I've never felt pushed down a hill, but again, I don't know how steep your place is.

Having spun a tire I decided to do a downhill fast stop test to help see if I was too light, but was able to stop just fine. My test slightly bent a heavy duty hitch pin, but to me was worth finding out what might happen. On hilly or wet sections I almost always use 4WD now.

I would suggest you find a safe spot to run some tests and then decide if you need to fill your tires or otherwise add more weight to be safe. Post some pics of your new rig once you get her set up.

 

[Ken45101]

Is the 8540 4wd? That would make a difference in maintaining control going downhill.

Ken

 

[chevy454]

Thanks for the input folks....I will definitely test my stopping ability before tackling the dangerous areas......BTW, I never take my rig OUT of 4wd because I don't want to take the chance that I'll forget and get on one of my hills in 2Wd and not be able to stop.

The reason I asked about the weight is that I'm going to have the dealer add hydraulic remotes and I just figured I have them add tubes (I have tubeless radials) and fluid at the same time if I need to add weight.

Like I said earlier, it comes down to making sure I have as much power as possible AND be able to stop/turn.....I can't afford to upgrade tractors....I thought about going with the bush hog 2515 for this reason, but I think it's best to go with the beefier 2715 so it will last longer. I just hope I have enough HP!!! It will suck if I constantly have to use lower gears - kinda defeats the purpose of buying the batwing!!

 

[bill in ny]

i pull a 3600# baler with a 9x18 wagon full of hay up some steep grades with my m8540. i usually use 8 weights on the front. i have the cast rear wheels and the tires are loaded with rimguard. i have to give it a little more throttle to maintain 540 rpm. i use 4x4 untill the hill levels out. she sucks alot of fuel when i work it like that all day.

 

[Ken45101]

FWIW, my dealer did not put tubes in for Rimgard.

I don't know if there are disadvantages to that approach, but it does allow the tire to be plugged if there is a leak. With a tube, you have to unload the Rimgard, remove the tube and patch it. Tubeless seems like a better way to go.

Ken

 

[piller]

FWJ says he has no problem pulling the 2715's using a tractor weighing 8200 lbs. Your 8540 should already weigh at least 8200 lbs (5400lbs base weight for 4wd rops, 7 front weights and front bumper 700+ lbs, loader 1800 lbs, wheel weights ???).

Do you have cast rear wheels, add on rear wheel weights or both? You said you have radials, which size?

Since you said you have steep hills I think you should load the rear tires, use the front weight bumper and front weights, and remove the loader. If you find you want or need more weight you could put the loader on or add rear wheel weights.

 

[bill in ny]

you can't use the front weights and loader at the same time on my tractor.

 

[chevy454]

You're correct, I'm around 8000# with the loader frame, weights and cast wheels (BTW I have the 12.4-24, 18.4-30 radials with cast wheels). As I said earlier I drop the bucket for visibility and turning clearance when I mow.....BTW I know you can't lower the loader all the way down when using weights and loader because loader won't clear weights. I lower it as far as I can for visibility. This is a hassle but I think I have a solution for that. I looked at the weight bumper mounting and I think that if I remove grill guard and then put bumper back on I will gain enough for loader to clear weights. It only needs about .25 in to clear. I just haven't tried it yet.

I'm trying to figure out in advance if I need to add fluid. I would prefer to be able to drop the entire loader and just run with front weights......sounds like adding fluid is the way to go.

What about the tube issue? Do I need tubes for fluid in those radials or not???

 

[SPYDERLK]

FWJ says he has no problem pulling the 2715's using a tractor weighing 8200 lbs. Your 8540 should already weigh at least 8200 lbs (5400lbs base weight for 4wd rops, 7 front weights and front bumper 700+ lbs, loader 1800 lbs, wheel weights ???).

Do you have cast rear wheels, add on rear wheel weights or both? You said you have radials, which size?

Since you said you have steep hills I think you should load the rear tires, use the front weight bumper and front weights, and remove the loader. If you find you want or need more weight you could put the loader on or add rear wheel weights.

A tubeless tire that gets soft can debead and flatten in an instant - - sideslope . Tubed tires are more forgiving.
larry

 

[chevy454]

Thanks for the input everyone......I'm going to load the tires without tubes and try mowing with the 2715 without the loader and see how she does!!

I get the mower delivered October 3rd so I'll let you all know how I stop on the hills......of course I just killed myself mowing everything for this season with my 6' woods so I really won't know till next season if I have enough power to cut AND climb the hills.......

 

[scrapironford]

You have the best tire for traction [radial 18.4x30] on your tractor. Don't make a mistake by loading [liquid ballast]. A properly inflated radial,for axle weight, terrain and impliment size for tractor, will give you the best traction and stability.When a radial is loaded it looses its ability to flex,liquid is basically non compressable,and the tires footprint will not be as large. Cast weight on wheel is much prefered for traction,cast belly weights will lower center of gravity better on hills. The bad thing about cast weights is the cost, they are a lot easier to remove than liquid ballast when you don't need them,better fuel economy less wear on tractor. scrapironford

 

[Ken45101]

The tire still flexes when liquid loaded. Tires are only loaded to 75%, leaving 25% air space to compress.

This is the first time I've heard cast belly weights mentioned. Your point about lowering the center of gravity is well taken, but they would also add wear and tear to the bearings and frame structure. I don't know if most tractors are designed for significant extra weight that way. I certainly cannot imagine taking 1600#s on and off underneath the tractor. Would not be a simple (or safe?) job.

I'm not sure that I agree that cast wheel weights mean less wear on the tractor. Wheel weights have rotational inertia and rotational momentum. That means more clutch wear when starting and more brake wear when stopping. Liquid ballast has negligible rotational inertia or momentum. On my M9540, I have a total of 1600# of Rimguard in the rear tires. That would add a lot of rotational momentum/inertia if it were in the form of wheel weights.

You have the best tire for traction [radial 18.4x30] on your tractor. Don't make a mistake by loading [liquid ballast]. A properly inflated radial,for axle weight, terrain and impliment size for tractor, will give you the best traction and stability.When a radial is loaded it looses its ability to flex,liquid is basically non compressable,and the tires footprint will not be as large. Cast weight on wheel is much prefered for traction,cast belly weights will lower center of gravity better on hills. The bad thing about cast weights is the cost, they are a lot easier to remove than liquid ballast when you don't need them,better fuel economy less wear on tractor. scrapironford

 

[MarkV]

I hadn't thought about it until Scrapironford mentioned something but I kind of remember reading that radials should not be filled. May want to check with the tire manufacture and see what their take is.

MarkV

 

[scrapironford]

Ken45101 responded tires are only loaded 75% leaving 25%air, that is correct,I said the same thing years ago about radials. A large ag equipment company, one of the largest in the world, that I refuse to own any of their equipment {local dealer problems], proved me wrong !!!!! I now use a lot of John Deere's research and recomendations on my red and blue tractors. JD has published results of studies,that state,

"Cast ballast is preferred. Since liquid is incompressible its presence inside of a tire increases tire stiffness. The results are detrimental". [end quote]. From JD publication "A practical guide to optimizing tractor performance". I an not trying to start a "war" just trying to pass along some good information that has worked for me and a lot of other farmers I know. scrapironford

 

[Ken45101]

Ken45101 responded tires are only loaded 75% leaving 25%air, that is correct,I said the same thing years ago about radials. A large ag equipment company, one of the largest in the world, that I refuse to own any of their equipment {local dealer problems], proved me wrong !!!!! I now use a lot of John Deere's research and recomendations on my red and blue tractors. JD has published results of studies,that state,

"Cast ballast is preferred. Since liquid is incompressible its presence inside of a tire increases tire stiffness. The results are detrimental". [end quote]. From JD publication "A practical guide to optimizing tractor performance". I an not trying to start a "war" just trying to pass along some good information that has worked for me and a lot of other farmers I know. scrapironford

You have the same local dealer I have?

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I have a couple of thoughts:

-- are they looking at 100% filled tires, or 75%? Yes, I can see where even 75% would lose a bit of flexibility, but not that much unless:

-- they are looking at higher speed operations such as mining, etc. I don't see where the typical farm or homeowner tractor would be operated at speed on rough terrain.

-- also, the big iron companies make a big profit in selling those cast iron weights. They don't make any money if the dealer installs calcium or Rimguard.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

-- also, the big iron companies make a big profit in selling those cast iron weights. They don't make any money if the dealer installs calcium or Rimguard.[/quote]

This was my exact thought. I don't really know of very many companies that push a product that makes them zero money. And as far as the less compression and flex with the tires filled, if they say that they don't flex as well when they are filled, then I believe them. But just how much less is it? 1,2 percent, maybe, I don't really know. JMO

 

[scrapironford]

When it was shown to me with Radial tires on a 100hp tractor, if I remember correctly they were Michelen and Firestone 18.4x38. They had 2 sets of each brand one water filled, one set with cast ballast. The footprint of the water filled tires were several inches shorter, front to back of tire footprint, than the footprint of the tires with cast ballast. The radial tire with water had only a slightly longer footprint than a bias tire, which has the shortest footprint of all tires. The man from that Case dealer helped a lot of us,sorry to see them close ,the JD dealer said do this, no help, nothing. He also showed us how to mount and use belly weights even though they had to go to an outside supplier to get them at that time. The formula he showed us then, it has been changed slightly, for a 4x4 100 hp tractor was 125lb per 1hp, total tractor weight,at 4.5 mph ground speed with a draft load. The faster you travel the more weight per hp you need. On normal ground, slightly rolling,we often use only 6psi of air pressure in the tires, depending on load and terrain as much as 18-20psi.scrapironford

 

[sandman2234]

scrapironford
Since you live in Florida, I would appreciate knowing what dealer you had problems with, so I am carefull if dealing with them. You can send it to me in a PM if you would.
David from jax