Mowing telescoping boom mower for larger PTs?

[wasabi]

for now this is the pondering/musing/mayhaps category...

In my armcahir research for mowing solutions (whilst weeds exceed 4'), I'm considering boom mowers. PT has two solutions, but neither lights my candle for multiple reasons. One is I don't like to mix balance issues with steep hills. Side mowing isn't logical to me.

In addition to balanace issues, in the case of PT's, potential flying debris from side boom mowing with no driver protection is a bad idea. Instead of side boom mowing, why not a front mounted boom mower with perhaps 90 degree side to side tweaking? Telescoping version 1.0 or knuckle/telescoping version 2.0 Both with 30" square deck with 4 caster wheels in float mode.

With manuerverabilty of PT's, would this not provide ample directional control as well as counterbalance? Engineering issues, practical considerations, etc...

 

[J_J]

You mean like this.

 

[wasabi]

You mean like this.

well...much simpler...i'm thinking a couple of 3' telescoping pieces of schedule 80 pipe, say roughly 3 1/2" and 4". Larger one welded to a perpidicular piece of same about 6" long that sleeves over a slightly longer 3 1/2" diam piece welded onto pieces top and bottom on a PT plate. One cylinder for the side to side...one inside larger diam tube for extension (with access holes to reach bolts and nuts) Mower piece that can be steel plate with caster wheels and hydmotor/ stump jumber and hinged blades. maybe gimbled to allow for easier float... I'll tackle a drawing later.

 

[wasabi]

JJ this potential project is taking an ineresting turn. Carl suggested potential of upgrading wheel motors and putting dualies on my 2445, and he has me thinkin... I'm pretty sure I have 3,000 pump. I'd love your input on this for my steep 6 plus acres:

If, the 45 diesel could handle the weight, I would upgrade wheel motors for extra tourqe and strength, add dualies, pull a 72" PT mower behind with modified rough blades (i have jury rigged PT 3pt with plate - would have to work out float) and work a 48" PT deck turned boom mower out front with 45% side to side and some telescoping action. If the flow would handle it, this would allow 9 plus foot swath sideways on hill with extra margin of safety with front mower counter balance.

 

[J_J]

wasabi,

If I am thinking correctly, the wheel brackets for the 2445 are much shorter than the ones used for dual-lies . You could build new motor brackets, that extend out to allow dually. To be swapping out wheel motors, is going to be expensive, around $325 to $400 for a new wheel motor. The new wheels and tires would add to that. With increased torque and smaller diameter tires, you gain even more power, and with dual-lies, more stability. As far as pushing and pulling at the same time, that will have to be tested.

Float mode is no problem, just use a valve with float built in.

 

[wasabi]

wasabi,

If I am thinking correctly, the wheel brackets for the 2445 are much shorter than the ones used for dual-lies . You could build new motor brackets, that extend out to allow dually. To be swapping out wheel motors, is going to be expensive, around $325 to $400 for a new wheel motor. The new wheels and tires would add to that. With increased torque and smaller diameter tires, you gain even more power, and with dual-lies, more stability. As far as pushing and pulling at the same time, that will have to be tested.

Float mode is no problem, just use a valve with float built in.

I think you're right...probably same as your 1445. extending motor brackets makes sense. more power and torque while gaining stability are all good things. smaller diameter tires will lower center of gravity. 2445 has 12" clearance....lower would be better really...only give ups are speed and lift height. cost of motors wheels and tires collectively is a lot less than a used tractor... I'm less worried about abilty to push and pull at the same time as i am the hyd flow...can it handle both mowers, best way to plumb for independent control, etc.

for telescoping boom mower, 48" pt deck is durable...but may want or need to go much lighter. need to find a way to compute safe length to extend assuming 45% from tractor

 

[SpringHollow]

I doubt you have the necessary flow capacity from your pumps to power the wheels and both mowers at the same time. The 2445 is 8 gpm, the pt 1850 is 18 gpm.

Ken

 

[wasabi]

I doubt you have the necessary flow capacity from your pumps to power the wheels and both mowers at the same time. The 2445 is 8 gpm, the pt 1850 is 18 gpm.

Ken

Hey Ken,

perhaps you're referencing 2425 stats? 2445 has 15 gpm at 3,000.

 

[wasabi]

I doubt you have the necessary flow capacity from your pumps to power the wheels and both mowers at the same time. The 2445 is 8 gpm, the pt 1850 is 18 gpm.

Ken

i had the pump rebuilt about 40 hours ago. don't know if they will work together but it would be cool if it did. rather add an 1850 (and the wif likes this idea), but things is what they is til they change

 

[SpringHollow]

yes, sorry, was thinking you had the 2425. I envy the lift capacity of the 2445.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

Hey Ken, You got any pix of your wheel motors (how the case is built around the wheel motor and extended beyond the chasis?)

Your 2445 is a 3 pump system, right? One pump for PTO, one for wheels and one for lift steering and dump?

If I where putting on / extending out, I would put a flat peice of steel all the way across the bottom of the tub. Then build the wheel motor box on that. Maybe over engineering but IMO would help with the new stresses. I would figure a way to use your old wheel motors. And just let them fail before you upgrade to higher quality. I don't know your rims, but are they reversible (is one side flush with the outer edge of the tire? If you put a spacer between two of the same tire???

Tired... typing fast... hope I am making sense....

 

[bc realtor]

you may want to try the kirogn.fr web site the cl 93 may work but the price tag is heafty.

 

[wasabi]

Yes, I beleive that's right about the 3 pump system plumbing...

Your fabricating idea is exactly what I was thinking....1/4 steel with shoulders...don't remember about tires being reversible...will find out when i get back to the farm. I'm also looking at smaller wheels/tires to increase torque. Now, aside from a cement/soil mixer i guess i'll need to think up some uses for spare wheel motors....

 

[J_J]

Spare wheel motors, maybe auger head, stump grinder , trencher, saw blade. Maybe give them to your friends , hint, hint.

 

[wasabi]

I know the leverage on weight on booms can get gnarly....i'm trying to measure it....

I have a piece of 3 or 4" square tube about 5' long. I'm thinking of telescoping a 7' length of smaller square tube inside with say a DALTON TR3 Cylinder - 2" Bore X 36" Stroke 2 X 36 3250PSI Tie-Rod Hydraulic Cylinder on top to allow min 7', max 10' action. Double gimbel a 48" mower deck on 4 hard rubber casters off end of boom... quick disconnect capability so telescoping boom has multiple purposes. I've got a small on-hand cylinder for the side to side.

...question is what is the leverage and force generated by 200 lbs of mower deck bouncing at the end of 10' boom pole 45 degrees out in front of a red PT?

 

[J_J]

I know the leverage on weight on booms can get gnarly....i'm trying to measure it....

I have a piece of 3 or 4" square tube about 5' long. I'm thinking of telescoping a 7' length of smaller square tube inside with say a DALTON TR3 Cylinder - 2" Bore X 36" Stroke 2 X 36 3250PSI Tie-Rod Hydraulic Cylinder on top to allow min 7', max 10' action. Double gimbel a 48" mower deck on 4 hard rubber casters off end of boom... quick disconnect capability so telescoping boom has multiple purposes. I've got a small on-hand cylinder for the side to side.

...question is what is the leverage and force generated by 200 lbs of mower deck bouncing at the end of 10' boom pole 45 degrees out in front of a red PT?

What is your lifting capacity at the lift arm pins?

What is the length of the lift arm pins to the center of the front axle?

 

[wasabi]

What is your lifting capacity at the lift arm pins? my 2445 is rated at 1800 lbs. lift capacity at pivot pins would exceed that?

What is the length of the lift arm pins to the center of the front axle? roughly 3'

Tractor weighs roughly 4300 lbs

 

[J_J]

Although your machine will pick up more than 1800 lbs, the 1800 lbs is the safe limit before lifting the back end. So, if your safe lifting limit is 1800 at the 3 ft mark,

Safe limit

3 ft---1800 lbs
6 ft----900 lbs
9 ft----600 lbs
12 ft---450 lbs

So, if my numbers are correct, then you could add a 200 lb mower at the end of a 12 ft boom, and operate straight out front. With the boom at 45 degrees, I am not sure how to figure out the tipping limit. You just might tip it over if that weight is swung to the 45 degree position. You should already know about the pucker factor by lifting max weight and turning, and you know that by returning to straight line lift, you can bring it under control. Someone with math skills other than mine will have to figure out the 45 degree weight limit, and also check my figures.

 

[wasabi]

Although your machine will pick up more than 1800 lbs, the 1800 lbs is the safe limit before lifting the back end. So, if your safe lifting limit is 1800 at the 3 ft mark,

Safe limit

3 ft---1800 lbs
6 ft----900 lbs
9 ft----600 lbs
12 ft---450 lbs

So, if my numbers are correct, then you could add a 200 lb mower at the end of a 12 ft boom, and operate straight out front. With the boom at 45 degrees, I am not sure how to figure out the tipping limit. You just might tip it over if that weight is swung to the 45 degree position. You should already know about the pucker factor by lifting max weight and turning, and you know that by returning to straight line lift, you can bring it under control. Someone with math skills other than mine will have to figure out the 45 degree weight limit, and also check my figures.

sound like ten foot is plenty of extension to deal with. I'm probably pushing the edge with 200 lb 48" pt deck but thought i'd try and take advantage of existing parts. Once it is on the ground the 4 swivel wheels should handle it but on a hill, the wrong way and it could well be a force to rekon with....with this set up, i'm thinkin dualies are not optional...can i run a smaller mower motor off my quick connects or do i have to dumb down via relief valve?

 

[J_J]

sound like ten foot is plenty of extension to deal with. I'm probably pushing the edge with 200 lb 48" pt deck but thought i'd try and take advantage of existing parts. Once it is on the ground the 4 swivel wheels should handle it but on a hill, the wrong way and it could well be a force to reckon with....with this set up, I'm thinking dualies are not optional...can i run a smaller mower motor off my quick connects or do i have to dumb down via relief valve?

What is the GPM through the aux valve, and is it 3000 psi?

What is the rpm of your mower deck? Right now, apparently it is using the PTO GPM for full flow, so if you want it to operate the same, that is what you will need. You might use a smaller hydraulic motor on a smaller deck, maybe 36 in or 42 using a smaller hyd motor off the aux circuit. I know that when I am using the joystick on my 1445, that I have no pressure to the aux valve, and I believe it is because it is downstream of the first two valve used as the joystick, which have priority. The steering also has priority over the FEL.