Bad luck with vehicles.........

[Dargo]

I'm more of a forgiving person. I give people a chance to make things right.

Some of the banks that got money a year ago paid it back already. Chrysler paid its' rescue money back with interest in the 80's in their first bailout. Chrysler remained healthy for 20+ years because of that loan and America reaped the benefits in jobs, GDP and tax revenues.

I will give them a chance to make good on paying the money back rather than say the blew it already.

Yes, Chrysler did pay the government back largely with the vision of Lee I. Unfortunately, GM has already stated that it will not be possible for them to pay the money back, thus the "New GM". They've written off the "old GM" like the debts it owed.

Some of their new policies are a recipe for failure as well besides being unethical. They forced new dealer agreements down dealer's throats that, among other things, destroyed their protected selling area. A good friend of mine has had a GM dealership in their family in a rural area for 3 generations. Due to the "New GM" rules, GM has allowed a larger 'city' dealer from another state put up a larger dealership selling the same vehicles less than a half a mile from their dealership. When they pleaded their case to GM about how a competing dealership a half mile down the road from them would kill them after 3 generations of loyalty to GM, GM's response was a simple 'you may no longer be the type of dealer we want'. Unfortunately, that's what we get with Government Motors.

Maybe I shouldn't have let it influence me, but I passed on a medium duty Cat powered GM rollback truck because I just can't support Government Motors. Honestly, I'd really like to find a medium duty rollback that is 4X4 like your dump truck. I've only owned 2 dump trucks, one tandem and one single axle, and I managed to constantly get them stuck when I was building my lake. If they had just a little more grip, such as would be provided by the front wheels turning, I wouldn't have had to stop working another piece of equipment and go pull them out.

 

[Builder]

I decided long ago that saving GM with a relatively small bailout (compared to AIG) was worth it to me (and our country) more than seeing all the GM plants close, all the GM suppliers get screwed, all the GM dealerships close all the American jobs lost and all the tax revenues lost to the gov't than only some of them if GM was allowed to go under forever. Yes, sadly some suppliers & dealers got the short end, but it's better than all of them.

Sure, the Ford guys would have a big party, but then their product would go into the toilet with little or no domestic competition going forward into the future.

I agree it's bad that for the ones that had to suffer, but without the loans, many, many more would have suffered.

We better get back to the topic.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If GM was allowed to fail it would be a ruff road for 6-12 months, and thats it. Yes people would loose jobs and companies would have went unpaid but that is what happened even with the bail out. The company my father works for just declared bankruptcy and all salaried employees took a 10% pay cut with management taking more. The company I work for just signed a agreement with Ford for our company vehicles. We were with GM but they sent out a notice that they will no longer support them after getting stiffed for products we manufacture. Its a shame because the cars and truck are less than 1 year old. Prior to GM we had Dodge/Jeep company vehicles for many of the 10 years I have been here.

The end result is the product lines that are decent would have been picked up like Saturn and Hummer already have. The other lines would have gone under and the remaining companies out there like Honda, Subaru, Nissan, and Ford along with many others would have seen sales increase. Americans still love cars and will buy them even if not needed just because they want them. Eventually all those who have lost jobs would have found something new. Government has no need to get into banks or the car business. They can not run what they already have like the post office or any other branch.

Chris

 

[Dargo]

We better get back to the topic.

I'm always amazed with your attitude. My suggestion to the original poster, after I said "I've, unfortunately, seen this drop in quality in several different make vehicles", was "I think your best bet is to politely just continue to express your dissatisfaction with your dealer. Most, not all, are decent people and will respond positively if you go out of your way to be polite, but not accept "sorry" (and no further action) for an answer. As wrong as it seems, the manufacturers lean on the dealers quite a bit to fix these "problem" vehicles. Good luck!"

The bottom line of your reply was, and I quote, "IMO, you're overly picky." I go on a bit further to explain why two of the three domestic manufacturers are literally bankrupt and have taken down tens of thousands of people with them and how they will have a difficult time getting any respect from the people they put out of a job as well as the money each and every taxpayer has paid for their mistakes. Then, not surprisingly, you attack Ford and recant your sole mantra of how great GM is and that we are off the subject.

I'm sorry, but I rather strongly feel that suggesting that the original poster politely continue to work with their dealer is far more productive and to the subject than "you're overly picky". If that is what GM has taught you as a response, stick a fork in them. Nothing will save them if that's their attitude. There isn't enough government money to keep a company with that sort of attitude afloat. So, again, sorry but I feel that explaining the fragile situation of GM and suggesting that someone politely continue to work with their dealer is dead on the subject as opposed to telling someone to basically live with it because they are too picky. But, as they first expressed, everyone on this forum could have predicted your response.

Good luck to nmu98, and I still strongly suggest politely working with your dealer. That will be your best bet at getting the best service out of your truck.

 

[riptides]

I... But these seem to be constant and stupid problems that GM should have a handle on...

Sorry, but I was laughing when I read this.

I had the same issues with one GM car, mirror came off doing 60, rear view mirror when I was adjusting it, door handle when I was getting in........

Some things one would hope would never break.....

Sorry for your troubles.

 

[Builder]

Here was my response:

No, don't take the attitude you can "live without remotes". Take it back to the dealer. Start pulling wires out and you'll be the one on the hook for breaking something. That truck should be 100% functional-no questions asked.

Source:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/1738130-post47.html

 

[nmu98]

Just a friendly update

The keyless entry system was fixed with a new module in the truck.

I have looked into the value to trade it in and buy a new Ford. Its too much money. Even if I got the Blue book value,and we all know that will not happen, it would be too much to upgrade.

I have no choice, in my mind, than to hang out and drive this thing into the ground.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Just a friendly update

The keyless entry system was fixed with a new module in the truck.

I have looked into the value to trade it in and buy a new Ford. Its too much money. Even if I got the Blue book value,and we all know that will not happen, it would be too much to upgrade.

I have no choice, in my mind, than to hang out and drive this thing into the ground.

Good luck with it. I have been in the same situation. I traded my Dmax after 9 months and went back to a Ford. Before that I got $9,000 for a $13,000 for a Dodge with tranny problems. Sometimes you just have to walk away and cut your losses. Maybe you will get lucky and it will get stolen or a tree may fall on it.

Chris

 

[mjncad]

Just a friendly update

The keyless entry system was fixed with a new module in the truck.

I have looked into the value to trade it in and buy a new Ford. Its too much money. Even if I got the Blue book value,and we all know that will not happen, it would be too much to upgrade.

I have no choice, in my mind, than to hang out and drive this thing into the ground.

Sorry to hear the finances don't work out for you to unload your lemon. I had the same thoughts as DiamondPilot concerning my long departed S-10 POS. Like you, I ran it into the ground because finances didn't work out for me to trade it in.

 

[workinallthetime]

I have said this before in another post but I have no problem saying it again.
I worked for a guy who bought used pipeline trucks, they were all 1/2 ton 4x4 trucks, ford, dodge, and gm. when the company would get around 100k on them they were sold to him in as a "lot" we had to buy 50 at time.
We would bring them into the shop and "recon" them to resell to the public.
80% of the fords were sold as scrap, engines smoking, transmissions burnt up, leaking differentials.
50/50 on the dodge units, most had broken frames right under the drivers left foot that beat the floor pan up into the brake pedal.
gm units can only remember one that we scraped and it was because the body damage was so bad.

We are talking 2 -3 year old trucks put through the worst driving conditions around the country and not 1 or 2 trucks, 100's of them. Everyone knows someone who bought a unit and had "bad luck" with it.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have said this before in another post but I have no problem saying it again.
I worked for a guy who bought used pipeline trucks, they were all 1/2 ton 4x4 trucks, ford, dodge, and gm. when the company would get around 100k on them they were sold to him in as a "lot" we had to buy 50 at time.
We would bring them into the shop and "recon" them to resell to the public.
80% of the fords were sold as scrap, engines smoking, transmissions burnt up, leaking differentials.
50/50 on the dodge units, most had broken frames right under the drivers left foot that beat the floor pan up into the brake pedal.
gm units can only remember one that we scraped and it was because the body damage was so bad.

We are talking 2 -3 year old trucks put through the worst driving conditions around the country and not 1 or 2 trucks, 100's of them. Everyone knows someone who bought a unit and had "bad luck" with it.

Funny you say that. My college roommate works for a large construction company that buys fleet vehicles. They got 12 GM's, 12 Fords, and 12 Dodges all at the same time in about 2004. They were trying to make everyone happy. He is a GM man and got stuck with a Ford. None of the Dodges made it past 2007 due to bent frames and tranny issues. The Fords and GM's lasted about the same. His Ford got rolled and he drove it home after resting the fuel pump and topping off the fluids. He had to tied the door shut but it was totaled the next week by the insurance company. Anyway, all the trucks were used and abused then disposed of. Probably loaded 2-3 times over the payload day in and day out and towed as much as twice the limit. I can remember going to his house on weekend and he had 2 Bob Cats on a tandem dual trailer with a pintle hitch behind the F-150 before it was rolled. The trailer alone probably weighed 6,000#. The Dodges were the only ones according to him that had glaring consistent problems.

Chris

 

[Builder]

I have said this before in another post but I have no problem saying it again.
I worked for a guy who bought used pipeline trucks, they were all 1/2 ton 4x4 trucks, ford, dodge, and gm. when the company would get around 100k on them they were sold to him in as a "lot" we had to buy 50 at time.
We would bring them into the shop and "recon" them to resell to the public.
80% of the fords were sold as scrap, engines smoking, transmissions burnt up, leaking differentials.
50/50 on the dodge units, most had broken frames right under the drivers left foot that beat the floor pan up into the brake pedal.
gm units can only remember one that we scraped and it was because the body damage was so bad.

We are talking 2 -3 year old trucks put through the worst driving conditions around the country and not 1 or 2 trucks, 100's of them. Everyone knows someone who bought a unit and had "bad luck" with it.

"Built Ford Tough" until it breaks, right?

That example speaks volumes to me compared to the old sing/song story "My neighbor's brother's cousin's doctor's preacher's dodge, ford, gm blew up after he drove it off the lot" story.

 

[workinallthetime]

I guess all i was trying to say is yes I am very bias twords GM but it comes from years of being in the business. If anyone should say GM is junk it should be me all I see is broke GM products all day.
BUT i was there 10 years ago working 12-14 hours a day hanging intake gaskets on everything, swaping out transmissions on 5 or 6 differetn models, swaping out batteries on cars every year, window motors, injectors, ignition switches, blower motors, rear diffs ( 1 out of 3 built by the factory was good) all kinds of stuff i did.
What do we do the most of now days? reprogram for software glitches, fix a leaking seal here and there, and fix all the problems with the old ones that never got driven enough to get in and get fixed back then.
90% of what comes in the door before 10am is back out that night, we used to keep things for 3-4 days.
Our most busy guys in the shop are the trim guys, trim guys do interior work, driveabilty (tune ups, ses light, engine miss) 5% of his work load is new cars under warranty, heavy line (engines, transmissions, diesel) good thing there are lots of used cars to work on, those guys dont have alot to do anymore. The 99 model change was huge in the quality department, the 07 change however not as big was also a change for the better. I would not own anything gm made from 96-98, who ever was in the Quality control center at that time should be shot as im sure that time frame burnt alot of people on GM.
As to what I think about the current GM line up, I have never seen so many units that will turn 250,000 miles with only minor work.
-I spec out everything I buy and order it as i want with the options I want cause i drive things over 100k miles, I have not bought used in years because everything i bout used was used up no matter how many miles were on it. Seems when I buy new they last alot longer.
- One more insider tip for EVERONE, dont buy an extended warranty from anyone but the company who has their emblem on your unit. The coverage is 10 times better and that why it cost more, you get new parts not used parts, you get it fixed much faster, and there is no hidden Bull Butter to deal with.
- When your salesman says your warranty covers everything "bumper to bumper" thats more Bull Butter, its a LIMITED WARRANTY AGINST DEFECTS, not a warranty to cover that pot hole that your kid hit and knocked the alignment out, or to replace the wire harness your "trailer light riggin job" burned up.
the best way to win this argument in your head and should you get into it at the dealership is to ask yourself one question, Did I do this or did they do this? cant expect someone to cover something you did. an example would be - putting gas in a diesel engine.
This "lack of work" is one of the reasons i got out of the shop. If i have to take a used ford or dodge to the dealer for repair its always 3-4 days.

I feel for the original poster, its a real drag taking your pride and joy to a shop and getting the run around by the ones in charge or a writter that just see's $ signs when a smoker (diesel) pulls in. Its in everyones best interest to find a dealer you can trust and do business with him because in the new age of dealerships after warranty help, assistance, goodwill what ever you want to call it is all based on a good business decision. I am always willing to help those who do a little service work with me from time to time with a "freeby".

Gm building junk, i dont think so, public opinion about GM now thats junk.

sorry guys for the long rant, fragmented sentences, spelling errors, i have been passing kidney stones left and right for a week now and not feeling real well.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Workinallthetime

I am really glad you are so honest and forthcoming. I am also glad you have pride in the company you work for and what you fix. Its hard to find that. I was born and raised on GM products and like you said the quality, especially the fit and finish items, were horrible in the 80's and 90's. I bought my first new vehicle, a 89 S-10 4x4 Blazer and was burnt. It was in the shop right and left and I dumped it at 36,000 miles. As you stated its that time era and stories like mine that led me away from GM although I currently own one, a Saturn with 120,000 miles on it now. For the most part its been good but still many little items like power windows, power locks, sunroof, tranny issues, broken horn, ect. I will say last week I had a Kia with 20,000 miles as a rental car and my Saturn was 10 times the car.

I have given most manufactures a try. I have owned a Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Dodge, and many many Fords. Had tons of issues with the Dodge but none of the others were ever in the shop but for routine maintenance for the most part. The Toyota went 160,000 miles only needing normal fluid changes, brakes, and a clutch before being traded. My Fords have had a few recalls, one power window out on a Mercury Mountaineer, and a bad dash cluster on a F-350 and that's it on over 10 units. Like you said the most important part is getting a good dealer. I found a good GM dealer this spring called Sam Pierce Chevy in Daleville Indiana and spent over $3,000 on behalf of my father getting his Corvette back up to par and fixing small item that added up. They did a great job and I was more than happy.

Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head. People were burnt in the 80's and 90's and the imports and others were making strides. GM seemed to have the attitude that they were big and would always have loyal customers. That bit them in the ___. They are now making the best products they have in 25 years but its hard to change minds, especially when you spent $35,000 and got bit.

Chris