FEL out of alignment

[Beaux Duke]

I was pushing into a debris pile with my grapple when it made a loud bang. I saw that one side of the grapple had popped off the quick attach. I backed out and set it down so I could reattach but one ram was sticking out farther than the other. Up and down rams are ok but the dump and curl are unequal now. The ram on the same side as the valve lever is shorter than the other side.

I can't figure out how to make both equal lengths again. I'm thinking I need to adjust the self leveling valve. Anyone know how that's done?

 

[irwin]

Sounds like you twisted one side of the QA. I read somewhere (here?) that an owner put the side that's too far out, up against an unmovable object and slowly push til they're even.

If it happened to me that's what I'd try. (You may find it's been damaged more than twisting back will fix .. you might have to break out the welding machine to secure it.)

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

This happened on my L3240HSt when new. Mechanic at dealer said he whacked one side with sledge to get it back in line. I tried that then tried pushing immovable object. Neither worked and dealer replaced arms under warranty. Check old post for pictures.

 

[Beaux Duke]

No, nothing is bent. The shaft on the ram on the left is sticking out of the cylinder about an inch longer than the ram on the right causing the QA to be misaligned. I'll try to get a pic or two to post tomorrow.

It can probably be fixed by adjusting the self leveling valve. When I operate the control lever I can feel the lever being pushed out by the arm that's attached to the end of the QA and runs all the way back to the control lever.

I may be using the wrong term. There's an series of arms that run from the loader valve to the end of the QA. When at maximum extension or retraction the arm causes the control lever to be pushed to the middle effectively disengaging curl or dump. I'm thinking that somehow I've gotten that out of adjustment.

Just went out and re-examined the mechanical rods that run from the control valve to the end of the QA. The rod attached to the lever on the QA end has an arc in it near the end. I don't know if it's supposed to be that way or if it should be straight. It's possible a stick might have bent it causing the misalignment. I'll have to ride by the dealer and see if it is supposed to have an arc or not.

 

[HarleyScooter]

Hi Duke, It sounds like you were pushing pretty hard. But my thought would be to cycle the cylinders full stroke a few times without anything hooked to your arms. If that does not work I would try to retract the curl cylinders to the end of their stroke and then loosen the hose fitting on the back of the still extended cylinder and push it in. Then retighten the hose and cycle it a few times to bleed out any air that might have got in.
Good luck

 

[Beaux Duke]

I've tried cycling a few times. The mechanical rod leading from the loader valve causes the valve to disengage when the shorter ram reaches full retraction. To be honest I didn't observe what happened at full extension. It would seem that it should "synch up" during the extension cycle. Guess I need to try that a few times.

I'm still wondering about the mechanical rod and whether it should be straight or curved. I can't find any pictures with enough detail on the web to make it out.

I didn't think I was pushing all that hard. The grapple has fairly large openings between the "ribs" that can let fairly sturdy limbs stick through. I watch for that because I know it's a hazard for the radiator but the grapple was a little below my line of sight so anything could have happened. I'm thinking I was just lucky enough for a limb to stick through at just the right angle.

There's a warning label on the QA that says if I switch from a fixed mount bucket to a QA or vise versa I should take it to the dealer to have the self leveling valve adjusted that's why I keep leaning towards that mechanical rod being bent.

 

[HarleyScooter]

Duke, if the rod you are talking about being bent is for a self leveling system I would think if it is bent (and should be straight) it would only put the self leveling system out of adjustment and not cause the out of sync problem you are having. I am still leaning toward the full retract on the curl cylinders and losening the rear hose fitting on the long cylinder and pushing it in so it matches. The self leveling valve must have something to do with the cylinders not being able to sync, thats why I would go with the manual sync without anything hooked to the QA arms.
Let us know how you make out.

 

[Beaux Duke]

OK, I went out and cycled through about a dozen times. I checked the measurement before I started and after and it was 1 3/16". I guess the next step is to try your manual adjustment suggestion.

There's nothing attached to the QA at the moment because the angle of tilt is too great for anything to fit properly.

I can't see any fresh marks on the rod or any of the brackets it's attached to so I'm thinking the weight of the load at the time the grapple popped off caused the difference.

 

[kevinj]

OK, I went out and cycled through about a dozen times. I checked the measurement before I started and after and it was 1 3/16". I guess the next step is to try your manual adjustment suggestion.

There's nothing attached to the QA at the moment because the angle of tilt is too great for anything to fit properly.

I can't see any fresh marks on the rod or any of the brackets it's attached to so I'm thinking the weight of the load at the time the grapple popped off caused the difference.

It sonuds like the QA adaptor is sprung. The cylinders will will be off if the device they are attached to is off. The torque tube in the adaptor is twisted causing your issue. The other issue is to fix the reason it came unhooked in the first place.

 

[Beaux Duke]

Here's a shot of the difference in positions.

So you think I should adjust the one that is closed or the one that is open?

I may not be using the proper terminology. All I'm sure of is the lengths of the rams are not the same.
Nothing looks bent or twisted on the QA itself.
If self leveling applies only to the bucket when it's being raised or lowered then I'm using the wrong terminology.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

This is the exact same problem I had with my new L3240HST with Skid Steer QA last year. There was no adjustment other than the sledge hammer whack according to the Kubota mechanic. He knew exactly what I was talking about. In my case the torsion bar (the round bar between arms) was bad/it bent and had to be replaced under warranty. Some other owners have welded a piece of channel iron to this bar to make it more ridgid. I had my forks on when mine messed up. One side came loose and I could never reinstall forks or the bucket because one side would not attach. Here's pictures and if yours looks like this then you have the same problem and it's not a bleed valve fix it's a whack one side with a sledge or cut and reweld torsion bar.

 

[Beaux Duke]

Unfortunately you've described my problem exactly.

I don't have access to cutting/welding equipment so I'll have to try the sledge approach I guess.

I just have a hard time believing that the 4 to 6 pieces of 4 - 5 inch limbs that were in the grapple at the time were heavy enough to twist the tube that much but I guess they were when coupled with the weight of the grapple itself.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[HarleyScooter]

The pictures make a big difference, I did not know that your QA had a torque tube between them. I totally agree with JOHNTHOMAS and with your picture it shows it is bent quite a bit. I would try bending it back with the hydraulics. you should look for a place to block one side and try to twist it back into shape with the other curl cylinder. You may have to remove one end of the cylinder mounting on the blocked side, I would try it at low rpm's first to keep the pressure lower and if you had some help you could also hit the side you are trying to move with a sledge while applying hyd. force to it. Either way I also agree with others that once you get it straight again it shoud be reinforced from twisting again. At least now it makes sense why it did not sync the cylinders on full strokes.
Scott

 

[Beaux Duke]

I figured pictures would help everyone since I'm relatively new to the world of tractors. I need a parts manual so I can properly identify pieces.

I tried using the hydraulics to bend/twist it back into place but had no luck. I was probably over cautious but decided that I'd probably cause more problems so I called a welder to come over tomorrow to take a look.

It will definitely be reinforced. Looking at it now, it's pretty obvious that it could use more steel in a few key areas.

I'll try to remember to post a few pictures after its been repaired.

 

[kevinj]

It will definitely be reinforced. Looking at it now, it's pretty obvious that it could use more steel in a few key areas.

I'll try to remember to post a few pictures after its been repaired.

Remember.....the QA device is supported by the attachment. Find out why it came unhooked and fix that problem!

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Remember.....the QA device is supported by the attachment. Find out why it came unhooked and fix that problem!

It probably came unhooked because it twisted the torque tube. This is why mine came onhooked. Carried it on forks.
Oops! The Grands, today is their first day of preschool.

 

[kevinj]

It probably came unhooked because it twisted the torque tube. This is why mine came onhooked. Carried it on forks.
Oops! The Grands, today is their first day of preschool.

This has been discussed a bit. I know my Markham grub bucket had to be modified as it did not fit right. (way too loose, over 1/2" under the lower plate) The top of the Kubota QA is not just like skid steer standard and some attachments are very loose due to the top rail of the attacment being to narrow.

If the attachment fit is wrong then the the tube can twist, if the attachment fits right then the tube sees little to no stress.

Also some of the Kubotas do not have the stops installed properly over the pins to prevent them from lifting or the user does not get them latched properly.

It seems to be poor fit of after market tools where everyone has the issues. I do not recall many problems when the factory bucket is used.

My Bradco forks fit as good as the Kubota bucket.

 

[Beaux Duke]

Here's a few shots of the repair. The welder originally tried to reuse the torque tube. He cut it down the middle and it popped apart by about 1 1/4 inches. I didn't like the idea of forcing the two pieces back together because of the fact that a lot of pressure would be placed on the pivot points so the original torque tube was cut out and replaced. A second tube was added and both were welded to a piece of angle iron to add additional support.

The top plate outside edge of the right side of the Kubota QA (2nd pic - behind handle) was apparently misaligned during the assembly process. (Sorry, no pictures of that because I was too lazy to detach the grapple. It's on the trailer.) The welder added a couple beads for about half it's length then ground it down to bring it in line with the left hand plate. That made a nice tight fit on the Markham Grapple and the stock Kubota bucket. So the problem was apparently caused by Kubota.

Sorry about the 1st pic being blurry. It's overcast here because of a tropical depression off the Fla panhandle.

Thanks for all the tips and advice guys.

 

[Willl]

Skid Steer QA right ?

Let me guess, popped out on the bottom didn't it ?

 

[kevinj]

Here's a few shots of the repair. The welder originally tried to reuse the torque tube. He cut it down the middle and it popped apart by about 1 1/4 inches. I didn't like the idea of forcing the two pieces back together because of the fact that a lot of pressure would be placed on the pivot points so the original torque tube was cut out and replaced. A second tube was added and both were welded to a piece of angle iron to add additional support.

The top plate outside edge of the right side of the Kubota QA (2nd pic - behind handle) was apparently misaligned during the assembly process. (Sorry, no pictures of that because I was too lazy to detach the grapple. It's on the trailer.) The welder added a couple beads for about half it's length then ground it down to bring it in line with the left hand plate. That made a nice tight fit on the Markham Grapple and the stock Kubota bucket. So the problem was apparently caused by Kubota.

Sorry about the 1st pic being blurry. It's overcast here because of a tropical depression off the Fla panhandle.

Thanks for all the tips and advice guys.

The problem is in your grapple. Look at the top of the QA where it meets the grapple. The Kubota adaptor is rebated on top and needs a solid plate in front of it like the bucket does. Your grapple is setting on the rebate which lets it be too low to lock up properly.

I had to modify a Markham bucket for the same reasons.