Point me in the right direction (Please)

jamtuc · Jul 25, 2009

Hey guys,

I have been tinkering on and off with building a tree snipper (for about 2 years now)

I saw a thread on here a few weeks ago about using the PB from the loader instead of buying the block from kubota. I cant find it again. I was going to buy the parts from kubota to install the rear remote on my B1700. I am a cartoon kind of guy so I will need pictures. Or just point me to the thread. I will continue looking but havent had any luck yet.
More information is better for you guys so bear with me. I have the Snipper built with some minor tweaks to go yet. I have a Cross, open center, valve. I will only be useing one cylinder for now. Later I hope to add TNT. I need plumbing advice.

Thanks in advance for your help

Jamie

Scotty370 · Jul 26, 2009

Read this, and talk w/ J_J
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/141126-hydraulic-limb-snipper.html

J_J · Jul 27, 2009

jamtuc said:
Hey guys,

I have been tinkering on and off with building a tree snipper (for about 2 years now) I saw a thread on here a few weeks ago about using the PB from the loader instead of buying the block from kubota. I cant find it again. I was going to buy the parts from kubota to install the rear remote on my B1700. I am a cartoon kind of guy so I will need pictures. Or just point me to the thread. I will continue looking but havent had any luck yet.
More information is better for you guys so bear with me. I have the Snipper built with some minor tweaks to go yet. I have a Cross, open center, valve. I will only be useing one cylinder for now. Later I hope to add TNT. I need plumbing advice.

Thanks in advance for your help

Jamie

Show me some pictures and exactly what you want to do, and I will try and help. Do you want to go electric or manual valve. If you have the PB, and the valve, then you are almost there. Where to mount may be a problem, that is why I suggested a 12v solenoid valve. You could place the toggle switch anywhere. Did you want to tilt it, or turn it 90 degrees, or anything in between.

jamtuc · Jul 27, 2009

J_J

I already have the valve. So I may stick with that for now. I wish I had known exactly how the solenoid valves worked I would have used one. I still may take the valve I have back and order a 12V valve. I am not to far along to change. I only need one valve as of right now but later when I add TNT it another valve sure would come in handy. I thought maybe a set of QD to switch between the TNT and whatever I am using on the front....ie snipper, grapple ect.

OK J_J what valve would you recomend sir? The more I think about it the more I like the idea. Instead of a couple of mounting options there are quite a few more possibilities. I would like to save as much money as possible. (I guess everyone says that)

jamtuc · Jul 27, 2009

J_J

I am almost positive it is the PB comming off the LA301 loader valve to the rear of the machine. I didnt get a chance to even look at the tractor today. I am on a night hitch and caught flight late or rather early this morning. Didnt feel like doing much today. I will get some pictures as soon as I can though

J_J · Jul 27, 2009

jamtuc said:
J_J

I already have the valve. So I may stick with that for now. I wish I had known exactly how the solenoid valves worked I would have used one. I still may take the valve I have back and order a 12V valve. I am not to far along to change. I only need one valve as of right now but later when I add TNT it another valve sure would come in handy. I thought maybe a set of QD to switch between the TNT and whatever I am using on the front....ie snipper, grapple ect.

OK J_J what valve would you recommend sir? The more I think about it the more I like the idea. Instead of a couple of mounting options there are quite a few more possibilities. I would like to save as much money as possible. (I guess everyone says that)

Here is the 12v solenoid valve, and you will need a one station sub plate on the right side of the page to connect things together, and some terminal connectors for the wire. If you have a joystick valve arrangement, you could make a hollowed out ball with a toggle switch inside, or purchase one. If you are thinking about another cylinder, they make a 1 or 2 or 3 station sub plate to mount the solenoid valves. The sub plate is where you hook up the hoses. This valve will handle up to 10.5 GPM

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009072720413398&item=9-6136&catname=hydraulic

jamtuc · Jul 28, 2009

J_J

Thanks for the info. If I use the solenoid valve my thinking is I could tie it into the curl. Then I would be able to control my attachment or the TNT with the joystick for the loader. It could be feathered and wouldnt be full open or closed. Am I on the right track?

Scotty370 · Jul 28, 2009

jamtuc- I did a similar thing when I built my grapple, but used a different selector valve. Here's the thread: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/143329-unveiling-willl-da-beast-ii-2.html Some reason I can't post the link Go to Supply Center, It' part # 9-1782
The valve is pricey, but no sub-plate. J_J could answer the advantages of either. The valve mounts on my loader tower, is plumbed into my bucket curl circuit. Activated by a button on the joystick. Pressing the button is a positive change from one circuit to the other, but you can the 'feather' with the joystick, right (open) left Close grapple. I ran hoses out the right lift arms to two quick disconnects. Pics tell the story. Click on them to enlarge. Good Luck! ~Scotty

J_J · Jul 28, 2009

jamtuc said:
J_J

Thanks for the info. If I use the solenoid valve my thinking is I could tie it into the curl. Then I would be able to control my attachment or the TNT with the joystick for the loader. It could be feathered and wouldnt be full open or closed. Am I on the right track?

The single solenoid valve and sub plate would take the fluid from the PB port, and simply give open and close.

You would need two solenoid valves and sub plates to tie it into the curl cyl, and the tree snipper. The switches would be wired different, and now , the cost would be doubled.

Yes, you could use the valve that Scotty used. It diverts fluid that would normally go to the curl cylinder, and sends it to the grapple, allowing you to feather. Like Scotty said, it is pricey.

jamtuc · Aug 9, 2009

I decided after looking at all the pricing and the need to actually start removing trees that I will stick with the parts I have on hand.
The valve I plan on installing has a 3/4 inlet and outlet. The loader valve is a 3/8ths (99% sure on this) the working ports are 1/2 inch.
The next question is. Or should I say series of questions. What size hoses do I need to go with? Can I go from 3/8ths to lets say 1/2 inch back down to 3/8ths. Will I have problems with the pressure changes, speed of system, or any other problems. I would like to go with one size hose if possible.

jamtuc · Aug 9, 2009

I would like to attach a file or picture I havent figured it out yet. May need some help.

jamtuc · Aug 9, 2009

Here is the picture.......... I think

J_J · Aug 9, 2009

jamtuc,

The limiting factor on hoses is the smallest hose, providing pressure and GPM, You say it is 3/8, so, what ever 3/8 will let flow in GPM is your limitation. You can use whatever you have, but you will still be limited by the GPM that the 3/8 hose will pass. Volume determines the speed of the cylinder. The cylinders ports might be 3/8. If you are going to be using QD's to hook up the tree cutter, I would suggest using one step larger QD, to prevent losses due to restrictions of the QD itself.

Scotty370 · Aug 9, 2009

J_J said:
jamtuc,

The limiting factor on hoses is the smallest hose, providing pressure and GPM, You say it is 3/8, so, what ever 3/8 will let flow in GPM is your limitation. You can use whatever you have, but you will still be limited by the GPM that the 3/8 hose will pass. Volume determines the speed of the cylinder. The cylinders ports might be 3/8. If you are going to be using QD's to hook up the tree cutter, I would suggest using one step larger QD, to prevent losses due to restrictions of the QD itself.

As J_J sez: Volumn=Speed. The ultimate pressure (shear-force) will be the same with any size hose. I can't see any need for anything more than 3/8! I'd probably build it with 1/4"!!!

J_J · Aug 9, 2009

Scotty370 said:
As J_J sez: Volumn=Speed. The ultimate pressure (shear-force) will be the same with any size hose. I can't see any need for anything more than 3/8! I'd probably build it with 1/4"!!!

Since he will be cutting trees, he will want faster speeds, but will be limited to the 3/8 volume. I believe there is a way to hook up an accumulator to give a burst of fluid and if the hoses were larger, then more volume could flow, but the accumulator would have to be big enough to fill the cylinder at the operating pressure. During the rest period, the accumulator would fill.

J_J · Aug 9, 2009

I wasn't sure, but I went back and read that he will be using a tractor, and the pump volume, hose size will be the limiting factor.

Here is an option. The pump below is for a log splitter, and jamtuc is building either a tree snipper, or a tree cutter. If you use tractor hydraulics, you have what is available. However if jamtuc were to take the pump below and add an electric clutch, and drive it off the fan belt, then he could get fast speed through some wood stock, and if the tree is tough, it would shift down to low volume and hgh pressure. He would have 22 GPM at 650 psi, and 6 GPM at 3000 psi, and to drive this pump would only take about 12 HP. The 22 GPM would definitly speed up cutting time on some stuff. He would need an add on reservoir also

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009080914364589&item=9-4896&catname=hydraulic

I saw this little tree snipper on Ebay a while back.

J_J · Aug 9, 2009

As a follow on,

There is a new automatic log splitter valve out that is automatic after you push both levers forward. It will cut and return/or open the cutting blades on the snipper, ready for the next cut. It ain't cheap, but handy. You could do the same thing with electric valves, with pressure switches, and stop switches.

jamtuc · Aug 9, 2009

Thanks guys for all the info and suggestions. I hope to get this thing completed on my next off hitch. (I work 7 on 7 off.) If it works I will try to post some pictures. I appreciate the input. Some of it OK alot of it is over my head. But I like to learn new things. I have to say I do learn alot from the TBN guys.

jamtuc · Sep 30, 2009

Alright fellas here goes. I do appreciate all the info and help. Here is the story. Finally finished the tree shear....whoo whoo.....
I got a lot of great info from you guys about how to route the Hydraulics from the loader valve. Man was I suprised when the Hydraulic Cylinder would not move. After investigation it would only move when the loader valve bypassed ( like when it is curled to Max) then I could activate the snipper. Whoo whoo again. Not so much. After cutting through some pieces of cedar log I had laying around I noticed the blade was pulling down on the cut. No big deal. Took the blade off did some sharpening on the other side of the blade. It cut straighter.
Thats when things went realllllly bad. I have never claimed to be an engineer. Well this proved out when a weld seperated and the snipper became scrap metal. It wasnt really that bad but if it was going to break I wish it would at least be a spectacular break. Those of you who have had a weld come lose know what I mean about the sinking feeling.
Anywho....thats that for this project for now. It was an expensive learning experience. I will break out the chainsaw with extra chains and get to work.

As far as the Hydraulic plumbing issue even Kubota said all I had to do was use the OUT port from the loader valve. But it didnt work. OH well back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the help guys

Jamie