Why is there such a difference in prices?

[Punk]

There is a few problems with your history report. When Kubota came into the US their products where perceived as being over priced. The reason Kubota was successful was that they where selling a product line that the domestic companies did not think had a real market potential here in the US. They where not popular because they where cheap, it was because they where innovative. There is a long history of failed tractor companies who sold on price alone.

Perceived as being overpriced? When they first came out? I think they've always been overpriced.

Maybe they were also overpriced when they first came out; but Deere has ruled the nest, where I live, for a long time. They also, still to this day, cost more than Kubota; but not by very much. Those who own Kubota's, where I live, will also tell you that Kubota's not only better than Deere; but also cheaper. I told them they needed to check the current prices, rather than just trade-in for a bigger tractor; or better yet - look at another maker, such as Kioti.

But, No! They just keep climbing the ladder you guys built. Sometimes the trade in value will make you think you're getting a better deal. It's that old car salesman gimmick. Deja Vu!

By the way. Speaking of car dealers, and checking your history, maybe you should check the history of Chrysler, and G.M. Can you say Bankrupt?

 

[IslandTractor]

Here's my point. Kioti just started to gather some steam, in these hard times, but Bobcat is about to take'm to lunch. Same tractor, different coat. Same tractor, much cheaper. The question is; would you pay thousands more for an orange tractor, over a white one? If so, Kioti will be the new Kubota, or Deere, of a new generation of tractor owners. If not, and Kioti refuses to lower it's prices, then I will go on record to say; that in 20 years, if you ask someone in their 30's, or 40's - what's the best tractor to buy? They'll say Bobcat!

The trouble with your argument is that Bobcat was priced higher than Kioti until just a few months ago. I don't think anyone believes Bobcat will keep the prices and rebates they have right now so it is not clear whether they are trying a temporary underpricing strategy (not something Bobcat does with its skidsteers) or if they are just doing something temporarily to either build market share or dump inventory.

 

[Punk]

The trouble with your argument is that Bobcat was priced higher than Kioti until just a few months ago. I don't think anyone believes Bobcat will keep the prices and rebates they have right now so it is not clear whether they are trying a temporary underpricing strategy (not something Bobcat does with its skidsteers) or if they are just doing something temporarily to either build market share or dump inventory.

The trouble with your argument is that until Sept. 15 2008, the best economists in the world couldn't see the problems we're now facing. They were predicting Happy Days were just around the corner; and that we'd see a huge positive GDP number, by the end of 2008. That silly prediction never came to pass, nor will their Rosie prediction's - of a sweet fourth quarter this year.

The economist couldn't see the handwriting on the wall. They neglected that major Banks were writing off Billions of losses each quarter. They simply thought the Banks were getting the bleeding out, all at one time. They were wrong. The losses kept coming; until someone read the wall, in Sept. 2008.

Now, instead of the Banks reporting these losses, our Federal Reserve is simply monetizing this bad debt; by resupplying the lost reserves each quarter. That game is now coming to an end! If you don't believe me, simple check out the problems in the Bond Market. Notice the steepening curve. That will be your next shoe to drop; and when it does, all these tractor dealers better be able to eat their inventory. No buyers!

Like I've said before; I think Bobcat's using their head.

 

[IslandTractor]

Like I've said before; I think Bobcat's using their head.

The old dot gone strategy? They lose money on every sale but they make it up with volume?

 

[bbenyack]

Maybe the reason for Bobcat to be "dumping" their machines is due to the fact their contract with Daedong will be up shortly and maybe it won't be renewed. Possible? I overheard my Kioti dealer talking to a customer about something along those lines.

 

[back2earth]

Maybe the reason for Bobcat to be "dumping" their machines is due to the fact their contract with Daedong will be up shortly and maybe it won't be renewed. Possible? I overheard my Kioti dealer talking to a customer about something along those lines.

I heard the same thing (maybe from a Kubota dealer... can't remember). I believe that their contract was good for 3 years.

 

[Punk]

The old dot gone strategy? They lose money on every sale but they make it up with volume?

You lost me, man. Do I think Bobcat is losing money on every sale? No. They're simply making less profit per tractor, than Kioti, or that is - with their rebate in force. Bobcat's not losing money. Kioti's just making more per unit.

 

[Punk]

Maybe the reason for Bobcat to be "dumping" their machines is due to the fact their contract with Daedong will be up shortly and maybe it won't be renewed. Possible? I overheard my Kioti dealer talking to a customer about something along those lines.

That's possible! Bobcat dealers say no; but if I trusted ever car salesman I ever talked to, I'd be broke. Then again, I don't know whether to believe the Kioti salesman over the Bobcat salesman. Maybe the Kioti salesman is making excuses for not coming down to Bobcat prices?

Maybe the Bobcat salesman is covering his behind while he dumps inventory. If what you say is true; I could easily see Bobcat's sales falling through the floor. I don't know. I just thought I'd let you know that Bobcat denies it. That don't mean I trust him more than a Kioti salesman.

 

[BTI]

Sorry if this comes across wrong.
There is NO WAY a Kioti dealer can come down to Bobcat prices.
We pay more for the tractors than what the people are buying the Bobcats for at this point in time.
Bobcat Corp is making up the difference, the dealers are still making money.
If it weren't for the paint I could buy the tractors from Bobcat cheaper than I can Kioti.
Look at Bobcats prices BEFORE this sales incentive run.

Believe it or not that is the truth!

BTI

 

[demoman357]

I believe you BTI. I thought that it would be something like that. As a consumer, I felt compelled to go with Bobcat over Kioti. If it had been a couple three hundred dollars I probably would have gone Kioti. But it was $2500 and that was just too big of a deal to walk away from.

I truly feel for the local Kioti dealer. I called him and told him that I repectfully withdrew my offer but I would continue to recomend him to others. I hope that he understands. I had not previously purchased anything from the Kioti dealer and thought that I had no loyalty to disrupt.

Also, it was not just the money. Size and history of the dealer, amount of parts stocked, delivery times, and the rest of a large picture of support also swayed me.

It is obvious to me now that Bobcat is buying market share. It can only last a short while before it will collapse, but by then they probably hope thay have gained the needed loyal customers, the colors will be seen more in the field and the "gamble" if you will, pays off.

In ,y original post, I asked why there was such a difference in pricing among Kioti dealers. Volume discounts, more overhead, local market viability, etc. I still do not know why two Kioti dealers within 250 miles of each other can have a $2000 difference in price for the EXACT same machine.

 

[BTI]

I still do not know why two Kioti dealers within 250 miles of each other can have a $2000 difference in price for the EXACT same machine.

Are both machines new stock?
That would be the biggest thing I can think of.
Other than that, it may be the same reason some car dealers are higher than others.............

BTI

 

[IslandTractor]

Some Kioti dealers, especially the small ones, seem content to let the tractors sit on their lots with a firm retail list price. The bigger dealers tend to deal more (wonder how they got to be bigger dealers). The smaller shops sometimes seem to believe that the lower list price compared to Kubota or JD is all they need to sell tractors. The more realistic dealers understand they are competing against discounted Kubotas/JDs and other Kioti dealers.

 

[IXLR8]

When I was shopping for my tractor in 07, the 2 Maine and 1 New Hampshire dealers I talked with were not willing to budge at all on their price. I got a much nicer quote from a dealer out of New England. I showed the quote to one of the Maine dealers, he said he could meet that price, but not easily.. and he would rather loose a sale rather than sell for that price. I bought my tractor out of state. Another small item is efficiencies, the dealer I got the good quote from said he could take a tractor from crate to running and preped for delivery in 4 hrs, other dealers have said it was a 12-18 hr process. One dealer lifts tractor out of crate with a forklift, 20 min, the other lifts it out with block and tackle, 2 hrs, time is money.

 

[demoman357]

Both tractors quoted were exactly the same. In this case both were new 2009 model DK35seHST with turf tires and wheels, FEL, one rear remote, and delivery. The more expensive one had 11 hours on it and the other had 3. The more expensive tractor was offered by a very small mom & pop operation 3 miles away that had one employee fresh out of high school assembling the tractors and handling repairs. They stocked no parts other than some filters (not for the above machine) and touch up paint. The other dealer was not much larger but has been in business for several decades. Stocked filters, lubricants, and some implements. He had a big truck set up for mobile tractor repair. This dealer was 180 miles from me but said that delivery was included in the price.

 

[gboudreau]

IXLR8

Was one of the dealers in Maine Batcheldors in Lebanon? I bought my Kioti there back in 06 and Dick was able to come down a couple thousand after I told him another price I got cheaper.

 

[woodchuckcanuck]

I've been lurking for a while on these forums. Trying to decide which compact tractor to get. I found a local (1.5 hr away) dealer selling Kioti. I was looking for something over 30HP, or around 35HP. He had a 2009 DK40SE with HST, FEL and Factory cab for $33,900.00 (Canadian dollars). Convert that with today's exchange rate to USD and its $31808.00 USD.

Other attachments I was looking at:

Kioti backhoe 7.5 ft dig depth: $8,300.00 Cdn = $7,787.00 USD
or
Kioti backhoe 8.5 ft dig depth: $9,000.00 Cdn = $8,444.00 USD

Post Hole Auger 9 inch: $840.00 Cdn = $788.00 USD

72 inch Agrotrend Snowblower with hydr chute $3,100.00 Cdn = $2,908.00 USD

Orion 7ft Mini Brute (angle blade): $895.00 Cdn = $839.00 USD

Farmi JL351P winch : $3,598.00 Cdn = $3,376.00 USD

Seems a tad bit expensive no?

Add to that a 13% sales taxes. too.

 

[IslandTractor]

I've been lurking for a while on these forums. Trying to decide which compact tractor to get.

It does sound a bit expensive but prices up in Canada are really hard to compare to US prices.

I own the same set up (minus the cab). I'd suggest if you go with a backhoe then either the 8.5ft Kioti or the Woods 90x would be the way to go. Don't want to spend that much money on a seven foot hoe.

Sounds like you may be setting up for logging. Talk to Rick Wallace about protective plates and maybe he'll make you a package deal.

 

[woodchuckcanuck]

... but prices up in Canada are really hard to compare to US prices....

That's why I put in US dollars for comparison.

Thanks.

Jim

 

[IslandTractor]

That's why I put in US dollars for comparison.

Thanks.

Jim

I didn't mean it was difficult to find the conversion rate but rather that there doesn't seem to be as much price competition in Canada generally. Prices are consistently higher up there so it is difficult to give advice on whether a given deal is a good one in local terms. We have somewhat the same regional issue in New England and California where prices tend to be consistently higher than in Texas for example.

 

[woodchuckcanuck]

True enough. Thanks.