Ford 2009 V-10

[Duffster]

Aren't you the person who posted the payback mileage at 100k?

Yes

If so 25k would be 1/4 or the price.

Are we not talking about trading every 2 years.

Doesn't care? IE rich people. If I was sitting on a ton of money, yeah I wouldn't care either what the resale value is....just want one. But I'm not sitting on a ton of money.

I pay cash and I am not rich.

My old man is well to do and you can bet he cares about his resale.

Maybe if you drove a diesel you would have more money.

 

[Duffster]

I bought my mint condition 2006 diesel pickup for just over 45% of the original sticker price last year. Each manufacturer, Dodge, Ford and GM were all selling for prices between 40% and 50% of their value 2 years later. I'm not sure what you consider "very high" resale, but I sure wouldn't want to be on the first owner side of those pickups. Actual percentage of retail wise, gasoline pickups were closer to 50% to 55% at that time. It wasn't too many years ago that several SUVs had residual values close to 45% after five years; not two years. Actually, for the last 3 year in a row, Toyota pickups have had the highest residual value of all pickups sold in the U.S. Unfortunately for us, Toyota doesn't sell any diesel pickups here in the states. All of their high residual value pickup trucks are gasoline powered.

You are talking about a small amount of time in the overall big picture.

I bet the dealer and the manufactuer took the biggest hit in your bargain.

Toyota doesn't build superduty size trucks correct?

 

[Dargo]

You can't convince a gas guy a diesel is better, especially when they own certain diesel engines and you'll never convince diesel guys that gas is better, especially when they own certain gas engines.

Sorry man, but I own over 15 vehicles currently of all different makes including diesel and gasoline. I'm not the guy who only thinks the one diesel pickup they own is the only diesel that anyone should buy and all others are junk. I'm pointing out facts as they are. Duffster and I agree on most things and are able to debate gas and diesel without getting upset because neither of us are under the impression that only one particular engine and transmission work in a pickup.

Duffster can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reasonably certain that he and I can disagree on some issues yet have zero animosity towards each other. As the old saying goes, if you agree on everything, somebody isn't thinking.

 

[Duffster]

Stick a fork in me.

Here guys have a beer on me.

 

[Builder]

Stick a fork in me.

Here guys have a beer on me.

Awww thanks man, but I only like American beer! lol

j/k.

 

[Dargo]

You recognized the difference between us. No matter how many people I employ or what I have, I never feel that I know it all. I also realize that being completely hung up on one manufacturer or product is foolish. You'll not be able to pull up 200 posts where I've gone on about how my pickup/tractor/etc. is the best there is. We'll always be different in those respects. Sorry it bothers you. A very wise guy once told me that the day a guy quits asking questions and assumes that I know it all is the day that guy begins to fail.

 

[canoetrpr]

I bought my mint condition 2006 diesel pickup for just over 45% of the original sticker price last year. Each manufacturer, Dodge, Ford and GM were all selling for prices between 40% and 50% of their value 2 years later. I'm not sure what you consider "very high" resale, but I sure wouldn't want to be on the first owner side of those pickups. es.

Not sure exactly what these stats are worth though. There is nothing wrong with buying used and I usually consider it before every new vehicle purchase I do but I usually find that often people who buy used tend to count their 'savings' based on MSRP. Nobody pays MSRP.

When I compare used price to what I can get new after rebates, haggling etc etc., I don't typically find that it is often a good deal.

YMMV of course.

FWIW - if there was a proven diesel option available in a 1/2 ton I'd be lining up to buy it for upto 6-7k more. I tend to drive 22k miles per year (35K km) mostly highway and tend to put about 200k miles on the vehicle before I am done with it. I don't even tend to two very much. I think I would be able to put more on a diesel and at today's prices would save a bundle on fuel costs. I think that I would make back my 6k or so in the 10-12 years I had it and I'll bet the resale would be higher even after that.

Diesel here is at least 10cents per liter ~40 cents/gallon cheaper than gasoline. Gas is $1 per liter these days. On top of that I figure diesel is 15% better MPG. My yearly gas consumption is ~4550 liters or ~ $4550. With diesel I would use 3867.5 L at about 90 cents per liter for $3480.75. That is a thousand bucks per year. Worth while in my opinion over 10-12 years after which I think I will still get back $1-2k in additional resale.

 

[Dargo]

Not sure exactly what these stats are worth though. There is nothing wrong with buying used and I usually consider it before every new vehicle purchase I do but I usually find that often people who buy used tend to count their 'savings' based on MSRP. Nobody pays MSRP.

When I compare used price to what I can get new after rebates, haggling etc etc., I don't typically find that it is often a good deal.

Those stats are the only stats that "worth" anything. The reason is due to the fact that every single residual value guide is based on a percentage of what the original MSRP was. There is not one single guide available that uses any other figure. Every lease company, fleet company, insurance company, GAP company etc. uses a residual value that is based upon a percentage of what the original MSRP was. Those residual values already take into account not only dealer discounts that are likely, but also what rebates are. If a manufacturer, such as GM, puts out a $7000 rebate on their new pickup trucks the residual value will plummet the very next week. Due to GM's bankruptcy and the huge rebates and discounts available on most of their vehicles, most all existing GM vehicles owned by people have taken an immediate huge hit in their existing value.

As far as "nobody pays MSRP". That statement simply is not true. I'll even use the severely hurting GM as an example. Go try to buy a new Camaro for less than MSRP. Most likely you'll have to pay over MSRP if you want one. The same holds true for several different vehicles. It's all based on supply and demand.

 

[Duffster]

Go try to buy a new Camaro for less than MSRP. Most likely you'll have to pay over MSRP if you want one.

Very true,

Camaro's are running about $5k over MSRP IF you can find one.

 

[Diamondpilot]

10K in my area. Challengers are about as bad.

Chris

 

[canoetrpr]

Ok nobody pays MSRP for the vast vast majority of vehicles sold in North America. Nobody pays MSRP for the trucks we are talking about here anyway and I'm willing to bet you are not going to get 50% off on a Camaro or a Challenger after a couple of years.

My point being that when you say that people are paying 40 and 50% off sticker and claimed that "I'm not sure what you consider "very high" resale, but I sure wouldn't want to be on the first owner side of those pickups.", the numbers you quote, since they are based on MSRP which I sure hope nobody is paying for the trucks we are discussing make it sound a LOT worse than it is.

Around here you can purchase brand new for 20% off MSRP and while the discounts have gotten bigger with the current mess, for as long as I can remember the domestics have been discounting vehicles such as the ones we are discussing, for quite a while.

At the end of the day, you are saving 20% or so for a two year old vehicle which might be well worthwhile to you but it sure isn't the 45% less than what the first owner paid.

 

[canoetrpr]

Also FWIW - when I priced out 1-2 year old diesels compared to new prices, they held their value a LOT better than 1-2 year old gas trucks compared to new prices.

They typically hand more miles than the 1-2 year old gas trucks as well.

And when I say new price I'm referring to what you can actually buy it for - not MSRP.

I found that well kept 2 year old Dodge RAM and GMC diesels pretty darn close to what I could purchase for new - certainly not enough of a discount to convince me not to buy new anyway.

 

[Dargo]

Also FWIW - when I priced out 1-2 year old diesels compared to new prices, they held their value a LOT better than 1-2 year old gas trucks compared to new prices.

I deal in the world of statistics. They are rather easy to research and replicate. Used diesel pickups will indeed sell for more than their gas counterparts. However, percentage wise, it is a proven and undeniable fact that they are not currently holding a higher percentage of their original sales price than gasoline powered pickups. I don't have anything to do with making up these numbers. My opinion does not matter. I'm simply telling you that gasoline powered pickup trucks lose no more value, percentage wise, than diesel pickups. Your easiest way to verify this is to just call any lending institution that does balloon financing or leasing and ask them what the 2, 3, 4 and 5 year residual values are for the same model pickup in gas and in diesel.

 

[canoetrpr]

Fair enough Dargo. My sample size is small, based on my local area and was done over the month or two that I was looking.

That 2009 V-10 you picked up sure sounds like a nice truck and is well suited for what you are using it for. I wouldn't bother with diesel either if I was driving as much as you.

 

[Dargo]

Fair enough Dargo. My sample size is small, based on my local area and was done over the month or two that I was looking.

That 2009 V-10 you picked up sure sounds like a nice truck and is well suited for what you are using it for. I wouldn't bother with diesel either if I was driving as much as you.

That truck I bought last year is a diesel. I already had the V10 6.8. Although I prefer the diesel, when fuel prices were really high I felt compelled to drive the gas powered vehicle unless I was towing heavy. Now I almost always drive my diesel pickup if drive a pickup.

As I mentioned, I have no control over residual values and can only "read 'em and weep". I have 3 GM products and I clearly held on to them too long. Due to GM's troubles and huge discounts existing GM owners (like me) have taken a blood bath on depreciation. It's pretty well unheard of to not lose money on a vehicle and they are considered depreciating assets. Some just depreciate more than others. That leaves scavengers like me with plenty to pick over when looking at 1 to 2 year old vehicles.

 

[FlaDon]

I regularly see 20 to 21 mpg on the freeway on roadtrips in the summer monthes. The avg is around 18mpg with mixed city and highway driving. The best I ever saw out of my V-10 reg cab 4x4 dually with an auto and 4:30's was 12mpg, normaly it was closer to 10 or 11mpg.

Whether or not somebody beleives the mpg numbers I have posted , or thinks I bought the wrong truck, the wrong engine, or the wrong color is of no concern to me , as I bought it to serve me, not them.

I agree a gas engine in a fullsize pickup today can see 150k or more if it leads the proper type of life. I bet a v10 ford, 6.0 GM or a 5.7 hemi dodge could obtain that pretty easily if it were used as a commuter most of the time, and did not tow any real weight on long grades. However, hitch up a 28 foot enclosed with a race car in it, and tow up through Fancy gap in Virginia 5 or 6 times a year with one of those gassers screaming at 3500 or 4000 rpm for 4 or 5 miles climbing a grade, the odds are you will be changing that gasser out at around 120k or so. I am basing this on a buddies V10 I replaced for him about a year ago with a broken timing chain, and my brother in laws old 1500 ram with a magnum 360. Two cracked cylinder heads in 5 years before he traded up to a diesel.

There is considerably more to picking the correct engine for the application than a couple of mathematical formulas for oil changes and fuel cost on a message board. How about how much weight will you be towing for how many miles through what terrain at what elevation, do you own a business with your own fueling terminal, if so, what fuel are you set up to dispense, will the vehicle be used for short commuting or long trips, winter driving, if so how cold etc. etc.

It always amuses me when somebody thinks that they bought the only good type of truck, and every one else with something different bought one that was to under powered, or spent to much on a big engine that they probably almost never need anyway. The reality of the situation is the reason we have so many different combinations of chassis and driveline configurations is because there are so many people with so many different needs to fill with they're trucks. One mans perfect do everything truck may be another mans lemon. Buy what you like and be happy with it, don't waste your breath trying to convince somebody else they should have bought exactly what you did.

I go thru there every trip north or south. Even used US 52 to bypass traffic jammed up on I-77 from Bland to the tunnel. No problems whatsoever with the 8.1 and it only turns 2800 to 3200 if doing 65 from a dead stop at the NC/VA stateline. If its safe to run 70, it will drop down into 5th with a load of 10K + the 6K truck weight.

 

[RobJ]

Exactly right, Some are whithin the owners control, such as appearance and maintenence {tires that you mentioned}. Some factors are not, such as Rebates/0% financing offers on new like model trucks, as well as both gasoline and diesel fuel prices. In my part of the country, it was hard to give away a fullsize gas or diesel truck when gas was $3.00+ per gallon and diesel was approaching $5.00 [ I think it got to $4.89 per gal.]. Season is another thing, in my part of the country, clean 4x4's always command top dollar in the fall and winter.

Rebates and such can usually be had on gas or diesel trucks. Same as 0 apr, X plan, etc.

But here is another thin on the previous posters about putting 25k on a truck per year and getting the payback faster. What if you don't drive that much. I've seen many post in the trailer section that guys have diesel or gas trucks and don't put 10k a year on them. So that brings the payback out to 10 years! Not to mention the cost of a second vehicle I guess they are driving. Myself, since I got my truck have averaged 14k per year. But is is my main vehicle. But because of it's size, if we go somewhere...depending on where it is, we would drives my wifes old surburban or now like to drive her new (used) RX350 whe got.

 

[RobJ]

Yes



Are we not talking about trading every 2 years.



I pay cash and I am not rich.

My old man is well to do and you can bet he cares about his resale.

Maybe if you drove a diesel you would have more money.

I would call you better off than most of you can lay out 40-50k cash on a truck. I would question laying out that much cash if you can also get 0% financing. Even a 2% MM will pay $800 a year on 40k.

 

[Duffster]

I would call you better off than most of you can lay out 40-50k cash on a truck. I would question laying out that much cash if you can also get 0% financing. Even a 2% MM will pay $800 a year on 40k.

I am quite positive I am no better off than anyone on this forum.

I don't spend $40 or $50k on trucks either.

Where I come from Cash is King.

Even if the 0% is available we all know 0% is really never 0% but that is the topic of another thread.

If I come off as sounding like diesel is the only option then I apologize because that is not my intention.

As Dargo has figured out I like to debate and play devils advocate and show the flip side of a coin.

 

[Dargo]

As Dargo has figured out I like to debate and play devils advocate and show the flip side of a coin.

And, if I'm not mistaken, you can debate a fella like crazy and then go have a beer with him without harboring any ill feelings or act like you're better than him no matter how the debate came out.

Me, I live in a tent with my whole set of Matchbox cars; some gas and some diesel.