Opinions on trucks

[Diamondpilot]

I just did the exact same thing. Tried the Chevy-Gmc crew, there weren't any Ford ones around to try other than black. My last four trucks were black, Hard to keep clean and time for a change,,, Last week I got rid of an 07 one ton diesel, and also my Kubota L48 TLB and trailer,, This is the first gasoline powered vehicle since my 89 dakota.. Replcaed the kubota with a much smaller, lighter basic case tractor... The wife went and picked up the truck while I got the tractor,... Dodge, crew, hemi, Case, 45 hp with hydro trans,

Boy, new truck and tractor in the same day. Did I miss Christmas or something?

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

That is why we love our GMC so much, the 5.3L RULES!! If I could swing a DMAX, I would have one in a second.

Congrats on the new ride Canoetpr!!

What are you talking about? The 6.0L GM was designed to compete with Ford and is the only engine that GM has in its stable that can compete with the 5.4L Ford.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

What are you talking about? The 6.0L GM was designed to compete with Ford and is the only engine that GM has in its stable that can compete with the 5.4L Ford.

Chris

Gimme a break, that engine should never be in a full size truck. Even the Dodge Dakota V8 4.7l (302hp/329lb.ft.)gives that Ford V8 5.4l (310hp/365lb.ft) a run for it's money.

And the GM 6.0l was designed to beat the HEMI 5.7l not the Ford 5.4l (their old 5.3l was more engine then the Ford 5.4l), Ford's V8 is no match for any of the other V8's. GM had to bump the displacement to 6.0 liters to beat the HEMI 5.7l and Dodge still has a 6.1l V8 (425hp/420lb.ft) that they could put in a truck if needed but there is no need when the HEMI 5.7l is still such a great engine. Ford makes a decent overall truck but their V8 engines are still not truck-worthy and certainly their downfall.

LarryRB, how's the ride on that new Ram with the coil over suspension? I have yet to drive one but they sure do look great!

 

[Diamondpilot]

Gimme a break, that engine should never be in a full size truck. Even the Dodge Dakota V8 4.7l (302hp/329lb.ft.)gives that Ford V8 5.4l (310hp/365lb.ft) a run for it's money.

And the GM 6.0l was designed to beat the HEMI 5.7l not the Ford 5.4l (their old 5.3l was more engine then the Ford 5.4l), Ford's V8 is no match for any of the other V8's. GM had to bump the displacement to 6.0 liters to beat the HEMI 5.7l and Dodge still has a 6.1l V8 (425hp/420lb.ft) that they could put in a truck if needed but there is no need when the HEMI 5.7l is still such a great engine. Ford makes a decent overall truck but their V8 engines are still not truck-worthy and certainly their downfall.

LarryRB, how's the ride on that new Ram with the coil over suspension? I have yet to drive one but they sure do look great!

The Hemi is a great engine. Just not a good choice for a truck. They would have been better suited building off the 5.9L 360. HP and torque are important but what is more important is where it is made. The Hemi is a racers engine and makes its best power at high RPM's. It only makes about 60% at best of its torque below or at 2000 RPM and needs 2900 rpm before it gets into the 80% range.

A good gas truck engine makes 80% or more of its available power below say 2000 RPM's. Look at the 6.0L GM motor or the legendary 8.1L. The Ford V-10 is a great example of this. The 5.4 in its current form makes 320 HP and 390 FT LB of torque and does most of this below 2,200 rpm.

Chris

 

[Builder]

Gimme a break, that engine should never be in a full size truck. Even the Dodge Dakota V8 4.7l (302hp/329lb.ft.)gives that Ford V8 5.4l (310hp/365lb.ft) a run for it's money.

And the GM 6.0l was designed to beat the HEMI 5.7l not the Ford 5.4l (their old 5.3l was more engine then the Ford 5.4l), Ford's V8 is no match for any of the other V8's. GM had to bump the displacement to 6.0 liters to beat the HEMI 5.7l and Dodge still has a 6.1l V8 (425hp/420lb.ft) that they could put in a truck if needed but there is no need when the HEMI 5.7l is still such a great engine. Ford makes a decent overall truck but their V8 engines are still not truck-worthy and certainly their downfall.

LarryRB, how's the ride on that new Ram with the coil over suspension? I have yet to drive one but they sure do look great!

Totally agree. Ford's engines leave very little to be desired. lol

GM's engine & powertrain lineup puts phord to shame.

I do like the latest rendition of the Ford V-10, though. Smart to continue offering big block gas power.

 

[LarryRB]

:
LarryRB, how's the ride on that new Ram with the coil over suspension? I have yet to drive one but they sure do look great!

Dodge has made improvements for the inside of the cab by leaps and bounds this new model.. They've been bragging about it in the stock info and in other areas, advertising and such. I have to agree that the interior is almost non dodge and at least equal to the GM interiors, like GM LTX, SLT interiors... Probably not quite there like Ford yet.. The new suspension is another non Dodge area and the truck rides really nice, smooth, corners much better than before and gives a ride like I've never had before., Remember, I've had lot's of Dodge pick ups since my very first new one in late 73. and all rode like trucks, all interiors were truck, nothing fancy or special., For Dodge, this is a major upgrade.. Of course There must be areas that can still use some interior improvement,, We''ll see what I think by the end of summer and how it rides, feels, etc...

 

[WilliamBos]

What are you talking about? The 6.0L GM was designed to compete with Ford and is the only engine that GM has in its stable that can compete with the 5.4L Ford.

Chris

The 5.3L is the best of the 3 GM has. The 6.0 is a sluggish fuel hog, and is saddled by torque management even more that the 5.3L. I would not own a 6.0 with out a Westers PCM.

 

[canoetrpr]

I have to disagree guys but different things are important to different people. Could one be happier with more power than the 5.4L in the Ford - sure.

To suggest that it is so underpowered for the work applications that the vast majority of truck buyers use their trucks for, that it should never be put in a full size truck, does not sound like rationality but completely blind brand bias. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of guys that use the F150 day and and day out on the job site. Do you really think they would be better of with the 380 some HP Toyota Tundra just for the extra oomph?

A LOT of people have used and continue to use their Ford F150s with the 5.4L V8, in this model and in the previous model and it does everything it is designed to including towing to its best in class limit. The only F150 owners I have heard of complaining about the lack of power of their 5.4L are ones that want to compare 0-60 times with the buddies who have the Hemis (which without a doubt beat their F150s).

I'm about as non biased a buyer of North American trucks as you will find. I've never owned a truck before and haven't owned any thing other than an import for over a decade. I researched all three brands. They all make really nice trucks. All in my opinion will serve their buyers equally well despite what for me are considered small differences in their power output or other features.

My personal analysis was that the GMC Sierra had the best external looks, the Dodge Ram Hemi, the biggest powerplant, the Ford F150 had the best interior by far. This coupled with other factors - quality of dealers of each brand, the fact that two of the three are in serious financial trouble, the 6 speed transmission on the F150 which seems quite nice to me, and other things - made the F150 the right truck for ME.

It is all personal opinion and preferences if you ask me. What is important to one person is not important to the other . All three trucks seem to be the best they have ever been. I'm positive I would have been just as happy with either the RAM or the Sierra. Just happened to be that the things that I valued the most, fit well with the F150.

Oh btw. I absolutely LOVE the 'man step' and the side box steps.

YMMV.

 

[Dmace]

The 5.4 in its current form makes 320 HP and 390 FT LB of torque and does most of this below 2,200 rpm.

Chris

I see you conveniently used the E85 numbers and not the true pump gas numbers on the Ford 5.4l. You have any E85 stations around you? None up here. BTW, it's lb.-ft. (pound-feet) not FT LB.

The HEMI makes 80% of it's torque at 2800rpms which sounds high but it also has a 6000rpm rev limit so that is at less then half the rpm range which is just as important. Long rpm range like that means less shifting, broader power band and no need for a 6 speed transmission.

I am not blind biased, have you ever put the max load behind an F-150? We put my tractor and trailer (approx. 7500lbs) behind a 2004 F-150 and it was horrible. Completely different story with my 03 Ram 1500 HEMI. Sure you can get by with that 5.4l in a full size truck, they did more with less power back in the day but it is limited compared to the others. If they continue to stick with a "small" V8 that makes "short" power then it should be getting at least 22-24mpg by now.

 

[Builder]

I have to disagree guys but different things are important to different people. Could one be happier with more power than the 5.4L in the Ford - sure.

To suggest that it is so underpowered for the work applications that the vast majority of truck buyers use their trucks for, that it should never be put in a full size truck, does not sound like rationality but completely blind brand bias. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of guys that use the F150 day and and day out on the job site. Do you really think they would be better of with the 380 some HP Toyota Tundra just for the extra oomph?

YES! the 403 in the GM would be even better. The 5.4L is probably the weakest of the 1/2 ton bigger V-8's out there. Who wants to have the least amount of power?

BTW: I like your truck, don't get me wrong. I'm more disappointed with Ford's continuing insistance to always be the lowest on power in most truck power categories.

If Ford would offer better powertrains, I'd still be driving them.

Ford always gives me the impression the first thing you do when you get your new Ford in your driveway is you have to start looking for power enhancements.

 

[Bird]

Doesn't the F150 Ford with the 5.4L engine outsell Chevrolet, GMC, and Dodge? I know that there sure are a lot of satisfied customers. In fact, this is the only place I've heard a complaint of the 5.4L being underpowered. Maybe that's because not many people who own them ever actually pull the maximum rated load. And if they do, maybe they haven't used the others to compare them with. But it's easy to criticize a brand, if you don't like it, but it's a bit hard to argue convincingly against success.

 

[WilliamBos]

Doesn't the F150 Ford with the 5.4L engine outsell Chevrolet, GMC, and Dodge? I know that there sure are a lot of satisfied customers. In fact, this is the only place I've heard a complaint of the 5.4L being underpowered. Maybe that's because not many people who own them ever actually pull the maximum rated load. And if they do, maybe they haven't used the others to compare them with. But it's easy to criticize a brand, if you don't like it, but it's a bit hard to argue convincingly against success.

If you combine the GMC + Chev sales , Ford does not come close to outselling GM.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I routinely pulled 7,000# with my last F-150 and it averaged just over 10 mpg doing so. Probably 15,000 miles of the 25,000 miles we put on it in the 2 years we had it. Never gave me a day of trouble. The F-150 I had before it was a 2002 with only 260 HP 5.4 and I pulled 10,000# with it for over a year. Yes it was too much for it but I had to make due. I then bought a 2500 Hemi 4x4 that did no better than the F-150 other than it was a stronger overall truck when not in the shop. Many time I wished I had the F-150 back. The Hemi 2500 4x4 was great unloaded but was disappointed on the boat ramp and merging in traffic with the boat in tow.

As for the 5.3L its a well proven engine but wins no power wars. I know a couple of guys with 5.3L in GM trucks and the big thing I noticed was when my buddy Ron follows me to Tennessee with a 5,500# boat in tow on his 2006 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 my 2007 F-150 walked all over it with a 7,000# boat in tow. Did not matter once up to speed but merging on I-75 and passing cars it was a dog. I guess its the 338 FT LB of torque it has.

Yes, we do have E85 stations all over the place in Indiana. It is very common throughout the Midwest but I will admit I have not used it in the last 6 months or more because there is no price advantage with the 30% loss in economy.

Chris

 

[LBrown59]

I have to disagree guys but different things are important to different people. Could one be happier with more power than the 5.4L in the Ford - sure.

To suggest that it is so underpowered for the work applications that the vast majority of truck buyers use their trucks for, that it should never be put in a full size truck, does not sound like rationality but completely blind brand bias. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of guys that use the F150 day and and day out on the job site. Do you really think they would be better of with the 380 some HP Toyota Tundra just for the extra oomph?

A LOT of people have used and continue to use their Ford F150s with the 5.4L V8, in this model and in the previous model and it does everything it is designed to including towing to its best in class limit. The only F150 owners I have heard of complaining about the lack of power of their 5.4L are ones that want to compare 0-60 times with the buddies who have the Hemis (which without a doubt beat their F150s).

*I'm about as non biased a buyer of North American trucks as you will find. I've never owned a truck before and haven't owned any thing other than an import for over a decade. I researched all three brands. They all make really nice trucks. All in my opinion will serve their buyers equally well despite what for me are considered small differences in their power output or other features.

My personal analysis was that the GMC Sierra had the best external looks, the Dodge Ram Hemi, the biggest powerplant, the Ford F150 had the best interior by far. This coupled with other factors - quality of dealers of each brand, the fact that two of the three are in serious financial trouble, the 6 speed transmission on the F150 which seems quite nice to me, and other things - made the F150 the right truck for ME.

It is all personal opinion and preferences if you ask me. What is important to one person is not important to the other . All three trucks seem to be the best they have ever been. I'm positive I would have been just as happy with either the RAM or the Sierra. Just happened to be that the things that I valued the most, fit well with the F150.

Oh btw. I absolutely LOVE the 'man step' and the side box steps.

YMMV.

My main gripe about these trucks is I hate the big clumsy bulky awkward size of them.Now if they were the same sizes as Nissan and Toyota that may be another story.

 

[WilliamBos]

As for the 5.3L its a well proven engine but wins no power wars. I know a couple of guys with 5.3L in GM trucks and the big thing I noticed was when my buddy Ron follows me to Tennessee with a 5,500# boat in tow on his 2006 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 my 2007 F-150 walked all over it with a 7,000# boat in tow. Did not matter once up to speed but merging on I-75 and passing cars it was a dog. I guess its the 338 FT LB of torque it has.



Chris

What gear ratios?? Your Ford and the GM? Ours with 3:73 pulls great.

 

[Builder]

Doesn't the F150 Ford with the 5.4L engine outsell Chevrolet, GMC, and Dodge? I know that there sure are a lot of satisfied customers. In fact, this is the only place I've heard a complaint of the 5.4L being underpowered. Maybe that's because not many people who own them ever actually pull the maximum rated load. And if they do, maybe they haven't used the others to compare them with. But it's easy to criticize a brand, if you don't like it, but it's a bit hard to argue convincingly against success.

Hope it's OK to disagree, but for the life of me, I can't understand why the biggest sales numbers mean the best product????

There's big box builders around me that build junk that falls apart and I build nicer stuff that lasts longer. They outsell me 25 to 1, but who builds the better product? I do.

Ford guys have been hanging their hats on F-150 sales forever. Good for them, they have the best selling truck. Yippeee. How that equates to being the best truck is beyond comprehension.

All it really means is they are the best marketed truck. The average American doesn't know the difference between trucks, what's under the hood, payload, etc. They buy from who advertises the most during the most prime time advertising spots. If that weren't true, Ford would have no reason to shove the F-150 down our throats constantly on every advertising medium.

 

[Bird]

Hope it's OK to disagree, but for the life of me, I can't understand why the biggest sales numbers mean the best product????

Sure, it's OK to disagree . . . but what are we disagreeing about? I didn't say they were the best product, did I? I only said I haven't heard any owners, except on TBN, complain about a lack of power. Now they may not be as powerful as a Freightliner, or a Chevy pickup, but apparently they have plenty of power to satisfy a majority of owners. I was thinking more along the lines of Ford producing what the buyers want, just as I would assume those builders who outsell you are building what the buyers want. Now some of the reasons for buyers "wanting" or buying one product over another can be (1) perception of better quality, (2) lower price, (3) specific features - as in more power or better fuel economy for pickups and other features of other products, or yep, (4) better marketing can also account for it. But whatever accounts for it, apparently Ford has been at least a little more successful than GM and Chrysler.

 

[Diamondpilot]

What gear ratios?? Your Ford and the GM? Ours with 3:73 pulls great.

Mine has 3.73 gears and that is what he said his has but to be honest he is a farmer but the most non technical guy I have ever met. It could have something different.

Chris

 

[soarkrebel1]

The 5.3L is the best of the 3 GM has. The 6.0 is a sluggish fuel hog, and is saddled by torque management even more that the 5.3L. I would not own a 6.0 with out a Westers PCM.

Oh that is funny!
Have you even driven a 2500 with a 6.0 in it?
Sluggish? Nope you haven't driven one!!
Fuel Hog? yeah I get an avg of 15 mpg empty and a pretty steady 13 towing about 7000 pounds!
But that's because it was built to TOW and has 4.10 gears in it... not highway 3.73's!
A 5.3 is great for a 1/2 ton highway truck but really not for towing.
I also have a 1995 GMC 1500 with a 5.7 that has 3.73's .....no comparison in tow capability or power! And from the 5.3's I drove I would take my old 5.7!
But the 6.0 is a strong powerful engine that is not sluggish.
If the 5.3 was so good GM would have put it in the 2500 and Denali's. The 6.0 can give the performance in these vehicles that owners want!

Sure a Duramax or any Diesel is a better torque making engine but between the 5.3 and 6.0 the 6.0 is a much better tow engine.

 

[LarryRB]

IBird,,,
I'd like to interject a comment here about the ford 1/2 ton and it's power or lack of. Where you live Bird, is basically a pool table. A Ford one ton with sideways kick starter and Briggs and Stratton power would pretty much go anywhere in Texas.. This whole thing equates back to the long haul truckers from Texas and other western areas,, Sure Donner pass is 54 miles of boring, but steady climbing and eventually you get to the top,, Here on the east coast are short, not very high, but radically steeped hills. Just think of going up and down the first hill on a good roller coaster ride and continue driving like this.. Of course we have flat areas too,,mostly along the seaboard areas.. But, there are much more mileage running these short roller coaster hills, One can always tell a western truck driver especially their first ride out here,, They're at the local truck stop restaurant asking, shift up, shift down, can I stay in any gear more than a minute? It wears them out and quickly.. I didn't go far in a new 150 because as I see it, they are too underpowerd for this constant up and down... At least with the hemi, I am getting over the hills and dales with ease... 14.7 mpg so far with 80 miles on the truck.. The 5.3 and 6.0 Jimmies are staying with me, so their power seems to work OK also.