B6100 Mutilated Pressure Plate

[TexJer]

A couple weeks ago a friend and I replaced the clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing on my B6100. Admittedly I'm not the best mechanic, nor do I want to be, AND I didn't follow instructions to the Tee. After closer reading of the repair manual I realized we didn't set the finger height on the pressure plate. I'm thinking / hoping that's what caused this:

Guess it's time to get online and order another pressure plate and throwout bearing. I've seen parts manuals online for sale. Do they offer a better view of the parts and exactly how they go? The shop manual I have (I&T) only shows so much. Any suggestions there?

Anyone know of a reasonable and honest mechanic in the mid-cities part of DFW that would put this thing back together for me at my place???? I don't want to go through this again!!

 

[banjodunn]

G'day sorry to see the mess it looks to me like the thrust brg did not release correctly I am not familiar with your machine but i would be checking any and all linkages for correct adjustment and also that they are free in all their movement if not linkage check that the master cyl is actually letting all the fluid return when you release the pedal (push thrust as far back as poss with pedal up then open bleeder and see if it will go any further if it does check m/cyl for correct adjustment). As far as an honest mechanic goes in your area can't help sorry, but then again i'm due some holidays so if you wanted to supply the tickets I could be tempted Best of luck with it


Jon

 

[TexJer]

Howdy Jon,

It's mechanical linkage, not hydraulic. I'm thinking (dangerous) that I may have installed the throwout bearing backwards, if that's possible.

 

[Patches]

I don't own your tractor variety, but a clutch is a clutch is a clutch.Did you adjust your pedal free play after the install;it appears the throwout bearing never released completely, heated and seized and it is all down hill from there.I can imagine you (could) install the bearing backwards, BUT, it would not be easy and should certainly look odd

 

[KubotainNH]

TexJer, sorry you are having issues with the replacement. I have to agree with Patches, unless you had the throwout bearing backwards I would guess the free play was off. If you have too little free play and the adjustable bolt on the arm is not set properly, you will push the TB into the fingers far enough to get stuck in them or break one. If you look at my post on my clutch replacement, you will see one of the finger bolts broke because of mal-adjustment and linkage issues which allowed the bearing to be pushed in farther than it can take. I got the machine in this state so didn't know any better. When adjusted properly, as soon as you feel the bearing against the fingers until final disengagement, is only about an inch of pedal movement. I could push my pedal a long ways when it was incorrectly set. I hope this helps.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/114577-sad-day-my-b6100-2.html

 

[KubotainNH]

One other thought, is it possible the disk was on backwards? Did the clutch ever disengage since replacement? As you can see from the picture on my link below, the middle bubble part is out. I love digital cameras

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...7435d1204918383-sad-day-my-b6100-dscf0063.jpg

If it was flipped, the TB would be able to go in farther than normal.

 

[TexJer]

NH & Patches,

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm thinking I didn't set the pedal adjustment properly. Come to think of it, don't know if we adjusted that or not AND seeing how the old clutch was shot I'm betting they'd adjusted the pedal to the MAX trying to get it to work better.

NH, yes, that's the way I had my clutch installed. I WAS careful to look at the old one before removing and if I recall it'll only go in one way. Well, I guess you could flip it over the other way.......never say never!

Thanks for the help guys. If I get some time this weekend I'm back to the garage to get her back up and going. After some much needed rain the weeds are getting ahead of me (again).

TJ

 

[TexJer]

KubotaNH,

Did you adjust the release fingers on the new pressure plate? In my I&T shop manual they talk about doing that and show some sort of measuring tool, which I can find out nothing about. They even give dimensions but I'm not sure where they are measuring from. They say to measure up from the flywheel but with the clutch plate installed I don't see how that's possible. I even asked the parts guy at my Kubota dealership about the measuring tool and he had no idea what I was talking about. Oh well........

We took the fingers off the old pressure plate and put them on the new one. One of my co-workers is a pretty good hot rod mechanic and he said the old ones didn't look that bad to him. Figured it was worth a try. The new TB will be in Monday, so it's going to be then before I can work on it.

Thanks again

 

[KubotainNH]

I never touched the fingers. They looked like they were adjusted at the factory so I never even gave it a thought. Did the clutch ever disengage after you did the work on it?

Keep us posted.

 

[BotaBigot]

I agree with Patches...a clutch is a clutch is a clutch.

You shouldn't need to set finger height...that's done during manufacturing.

There are a few things to watch for when doing a clutch job. First, make sure splines on trans input shaft are smooth. You want the friction disc to slide freely on the input shaft during clutch engage/disengage.

There MAY be a front/back orientation for the friction disc. On some clutches, the friction disc hub (with the internal splines) sticks out farther on one side of the disc than the other, and can bind on the crankshaft/pilot bearing when bolted up.

The release bearing can be installed backwards. One side has a large, flat, machined surface. That's the side that goes against the pressure plate fingers.

It is possible that the clutch release fork is not engaging the release bearing holder correctly. I'm not sure how they go together on the B6100, but on my old B6000, there were machined slots on each side of the holder that the fingers of the fork fit into.

After all is together, clutch pedal play is critical. Looking at the pic, it appears there was no play in the linkage and the release bearing was constantly riding against the clutch fingers...

 

[skipmarcy]

KubotaNH,

Did you adjust the release fingers on the new pressure plate? In my I&T shop manual they talk about doing that and show some sort of measuring tool, which I can find out nothing about. They even give dimensions but I'm not sure where they are measuring from. They say to measure up from the flywheel but with the clutch plate installed I don't see how that's possible. I even asked the parts guy at my Kubota dealership about the measuring tool and he had no idea what I was talking about. Oh well........

We took the fingers off the old pressure plate and put them on the new one. One of my co-workers is a pretty good hot rod mechanic and he said the old ones didn't look that bad to him. Figured it was worth a try. The new TB will be in Monday, so it's going to be then before I can work on it.

Thanks again

When I replaced the clutch in my Mahindra with a reman. disc & plate I had to adjust the fingers. I have the shop manual and it gives a spec. for finger height and the new assembly was not in spec when installed, if I recall it was a good 3/8" off. I had to rig-up a measuring device for the job, can't remember exactly what I used now. Will definitely trash a bearing if the fingers are too high and jams it back into the case. Can also screw-up your free play adjustment range if it doesn't destroy something first. I learned many years ago too that you never pull the 2 cases together with the bolts - always get them mated reasonably well before wrenching those bolts down the last 1/4 - 1/2". You should be able to feel if the bolts are going smoothly & freely or if they get tighter before the cases are fully mated, tighten alternately from side to side, top & bottom.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day finger height on a new clutch should be right but to be safe when you bolt everything up get a ruler and measure from the clutch centre to the fingers it should be the same on all three. Yes it is possible to install thrust backwards as mentioned earlier you should have a flat machined face to mate up against the fingers also it doesn't hurt to force a bit more grease into the TB i use a good wheel bearing grease. My offer of help still stands Best of luck

 

[rdbrumfield]

Most throwout bearings have a place for the throwout fork to ride in. Some though just have a couple of springs that keep it back against the fork. When you look at the bearing, the bearing itself will ride against the fingers, with the fork side to the rear of the tractor.

When installing, it should slide freely on the input shaft collar that surrounds the input shaft. When you install, push the clutch lever a bit and watch the play, it will be easy, don't push too far as the fingers will possibly come out of where they need to be. some have springs or retainers that hold onto the throwout fingers.

Some do have adjustments. All that are two stage clutches do that I have encountered. Just lay the pressure plate on a flat surface and check the fingers for equal distance as required by the manual.

While you have it torn down, be sure to check the pilot bearing. If it is worn, replace, it will save you another teardown. Much play at all with let the clutch disc wobble a bit and cause a bit of friction that will make it hard to put in gear. I have encountered this a few times.

A trick to get out a pilot bearing is to fill the hole with grease, once it is full, take a rod, same dia as the hole, put it in the hole and hit with a hammer. The pilot bearing will come right out by the hydralic pressure caused by the filled space and the rod entering.

 

[skipmarcy]

Most throwout bearings have a place for the throwout fork to ride in. Some though just have a couple of springs that keep it back against the fork. When you look at the bearing, the bearing itself will ride against the fingers, with the fork side to the rear of the tractor.

When installing, it should slide freely on the input shaft collar that surrounds the input shaft. When you install, push the clutch lever a bit and watch the play, it will be easy, don't push too far as the fingers will possibly come out of where they need to be. some have springs or retainers that hold onto the throwout fingers.

Some do have adjustments. All that are two stage clutches do that I have encountered. Just lay the pressure plate on a flat surface and check the fingers for equal distance as required by the manual.

While you have it torn down, be sure to check the pilot bearing. If it is worn, replace, it will save you another teardown. Much play at all with let the clutch disc wobble a bit and cause a bit of friction that will make it hard to put in gear. I have encountered this a few times.

A trick to get out a pilot bearing is to fill the hole with grease, once it is full, take a rod, same dia as the hole, put it in the hole and hit with a hammer. The pilot bearing will come right out by the hydralic pressure caused by the filled space and the rod entering.

You cannot check the finger height on an unloaded pressure plate. It must be installed with disc and bolts torqued to spec. to get the proper readings. My clutch isn't a 2 stage clutch, it's a single, just like automotive and only operates the transmission. My pressure plate has seperate splines that run the pto input shaft constantly and pto engagement is electro-hydraulic.

 

[TexJer]

Most throwout bearings have a place for the throwout fork to ride in. Some though just have a couple of springs that keep it back against the fork. When you look at the bearing, the bearing itself will ride against the fingers, with the fork side to the rear of the tractor.

When installing, it should slide freely on the input shaft collar that surrounds the input shaft. When you install, push the clutch lever a bit and watch the play, it will be easy, don't push too far as the fingers will possibly come out of where they need to be. some have springs or retainers that hold onto the throwout fingers.

Some do have adjustments. All that are two stage clutches do that I have encountered. Just lay the pressure plate on a flat surface and check the fingers for equal distance as required by the manual.

While you have it torn down, be sure to check the pilot bearing. If it is worn, replace, it will save you another teardown. Much play at all with let the clutch disc wobble a bit and cause a bit of friction that will make it hard to put in gear. I have encountered this a few times.

A trick to get out a pilot bearing is to fill the hole with grease, once it is full, take a rod, same dia as the hole, put it in the hole and hit with a hammer. The pilot bearing will come right out by the hydralic pressure caused by the filled space and the rod entering.

I replaced the pilot bearing. I'm 90% sure I put the throw out bearing in backwards. There is nothing for the clutch fork to fit into, but one side of the bearing has a hardened surface which I'm sure has to ride on the pressure plate fingers. When I have time next week I'll remove the old one and start putting it back together. I'm hoping and praying that when I remove the old bearing the hardened surface will be on the backside, like I put it in wrong. Did that make sense?

banjodunn,do you measure from the clutch plate or the hub? In the manual they say to measure from the flywheel, which isn't possible.

Thanks ALL!!!

 

[banjodunn]

G'day sorry i didn't answer back earlier you can measure to the hub, however if your manual states a measurement to the flywheel get a steel ruler and lay across centre of flywheel and hold the clutch plate up to the flywheel and measure the depth from the hub to the ruler then add this to your other measurement and bingo a distance to the flywheel. It is a bit of mucking around but will give you a pretty accurate measure (if youwant to get real fussy you can mic up the ruler thickness and add that to it too if you want). Hope this helps Tex best of luck

 

[KubotainNH]

Any updates on the replacement?