Hydraulic fluid foaming?

[VictorW]

I check my CK30hst with the loader full up, the bucket curled full down, and the 3pt full up. I make sure it's at the upper mark on the stick when cold. After working the tractor and everything is good and warmed, the oil will be just above the upper mark with some small bubbles but no foam. You might have picked up some moisture in the oil. Winter work is good for building condensation. At 800 hours and the next change cycle, those 400 hours might have picked up enough moisture to make it foam but not turn milky which is what usually happens.
If your sucking air in somewhere, it's probably very minute and will be a PITA to find. I'd do your service and then see what happens. Hopefully all will be fine.

 

[Lloyd_E]

This has me wondering too.

I have been moving a lot of manure and a lot of gravel. Just finishing a 2400' driveway with about 24 yards. I noticed today that the loader had trouble lifting a load of gravel - after I drove bucket into the pile. Reeved engine a bit to get it to lift. I also checked fluids last week - everything is clear and full but I did notice fluid is foamy or slightly white after use.

I need to do some back hoe work tomorrow. I will check when cold and when warm.

Anything else I should look for? I park the tractor in the same spot and there is no residue
from leaking fluid on the ground.

Thanks....

Lloyd

PS: tractor has 285 hours - just had an engine oil and fuel filter service last week plus a general look over by dealer.

 

[J_J]

If that fluid looks pale white, it probably has water in it, and needs changing.

 

[IslandTractor]

If that fluid looks pale white, it probably has water in it, and needs changing.

JJ, does the "white" only occur when water contaminated fluid is warm or would it appear that color when cooled off?

 

[J_J]

JJ, does the "white" only occur when water contaminated fluid is warm or would it appear that color when cooled off?

With all the fluids out there, I am not sure, but I am sure that when water is emulsified with hyd or oil, it has that blended off white/beige color. It is expensive to renew that fluid, so best thing is to replace.

 

[KevinMcD]

Don't want to stray off topic but what is the correct procedure to check the hydro oil on my CK30 HST? Tractor off or running, engine cold or warm, position of implements? I have a backhoe (runs off main pump) so what should the position of the boom and dipperstick be?
Thanks,
Kevin McD

 

[IslandTractor]

Don't want to stray off topic but what is the correct procedure to check the hydro oil on my CK30 HST? Tractor off or running, engine cold or warm, position of implements? I have a backhoe (runs off main pump) so what should the position of the boom and dipperstick be?
Thanks,
Kevin McD

I'm not sure there is an official way but I generally test it with loader down, 3pt implement on the ground, engine started and tractor moved just about 40ft or so then engine shut off for oil check and HST check and greasing operations. To move the tractor I obviously also raise then lower the FEL and 3pt. For me this is simply practical as I keep the tractor in a barn and as the space is confined, I start it up, move it outside then shut down and do all the checks. I think the main point is consistency.

There is an issue at least with the CKs where sometimes you can get misleading low HST readings if you check it cold before starting the engine after you put it away hot the night before. I am not sure if that is a general issue or not but a number of us have had that experience so I just always check after some minor movements etc to get the juices flowing normally.

 

[Highbeam]

See I always thought you were supposed to check it with the engine running and warm. Ugh. Engine running seems logical to me since the sump level is most important while all of the pumps are sucking.

Well I checked my vent, clear, and then checked the fluid level after some minor grading work at the house. The fluid level is actually high by about half of the range between empty and full. The fluid level only moved slightly between having the implements fully extended and having them retracted so I don't think that the position matters too much.

I believe that I am overfilled and I am beginning to think that it might be water. The bubbles were tiny and present the entire wet length of the disptick.

 

[J_J]

Take some fluid from the reservoir, and compare it to new fluid. Should tell you what you need to know. The longer you keep water emulsified fluid in the tractor, the worst things will be. Rusty parts, acids forming, sluggish operation.

 

[IslandTractor]

I believe that I am overfilled and I am beginning to think that it might be water. The bubbles were tiny and present the entire wet length of the disptick.

That is exactly what mine looked like after I checked with engine hot following 2 hrs of mowing. The next morning the bubbles were gone. I say bubbles but it was really microscopic bubbles and the fluid just looked foamy tan as I recall. Normal color in the AM. No water issue in my case.

Has this continued to happen? If so, why not drain out a quart or two of fluid and then run the tractor to see if that fixes the problem.

 

[Highbeam]

That is exactly what mine looked like after I checked with engine hot following 2 hrs of mowing. The next morning the bubbles were gone. I say bubbles but it was really microscopic bubbles and the fluid just looked foamy tan as I recall. Normal color in the AM. No water issue in my case.

Has this continued to happen? If so, why not drain out a quart or two of fluid and then run the tractor to see if that fixes the problem.

Yes, the bubbles are gone when I check before runnning the machine. I plan to drain one of the finals and catch that fluid in a glass vessel to check for water and also to see how long it takes for the bubbles to dissipate. Unfortunately, I don't get to use the tractor much at home so the fluid won't be particularly hot but it will be stirred.

I will begin mowing here in the middle of may so I hope to have the issue resolved.

 

[IslandTractor]

Unfortunately, I don't get to use the tractor much at home so the fluid won't be particularly hot but it will be stirred.
.

Just move your wood pile to the other side of the yard using the FEL. That will warm things up a bit.

 

[Highbeam]

I did just bring home another 2.5 cords of 3' logs over the weekend. Maybe I could do some splitting with the death splitter to warm things up.

 

[IslandTractor]

I did just bring home another 2.5 cords of 3' logs over the weekend. Maybe I could do some splitting with the death splitter to warm things up.

I thought that device was PTO powered. PTO is direct drive isn't it? You need to get the hydraulic hot. I'd say moving the piles around or at least doing calisthenics with the loader and wood would work better.

 

[IslandTractor]

Regarding the distinction of foamy vs water contaminated oil, there is one obvious and another pretty simple way to determine which it is.

If you took a sample of "foamy" oil after use and let it sit in a clear glass, the bubbles would dissipate overnight if it is just air but water would either remain in suspension or layer out.

Also, I found an interesting simple test in a US Army Corps of Engineers document:

http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-1424/c-12.pdf

(b) Water contamination. Hazy or cloudy oil may indicate water contamination. The 田rackle test is a simplified procedure that can be used to verify the presence of water in oil, but the test does not provide quantitative results. The crackle test can be conducted by making a small cup from aluminum foil, adding a few drops of the oil, and heating rapidly over a small flame. The test can also be conducted by using a hot plate, as previously noted, or by immersing a hot soldering iron in a sample of the oil. An audible crackling sound will be heard if water is present. Eye protection should be worn during the test to prevent injury if oil splatters during the heating. If water contamination is evident, the oil should be purified and a
sample of the purified oil should be sent to a laboratory for analysis. If sediment is present, the oil should be purified, and samples of both the unpurified oil and the purified oil should be submitted for analysis. The sediment of the unpurified oil can be analyzed to determine its source.​

 

[Lloyd_E]

Ok...

I hooked the BH up first time since last fall. The Hydraulic lever in the cab(A - Neutral -B)
will not stay in position. I called dealer he will check on next maintenance but said it was OK to tie back with bungee cord. I did about 3 hours of heavy work with BH - record breaking hot weather about 92 degrees. Noticed a small leak on one of the tubs - got replaced under warranty at last service - will tighten.

Checked hyd oil after shutting down tractor - full and clear - no bubbles, colour or foam.

lloyd

 

[Highbeam]

So I ran the machine last night for a couple of hours at lower, say 1600, RPM using the loader like a wheelbarrow to move a rock pile. The fluid was warm but NO bubbles. I checked it repeatedly during the work to rest my aching back from the hand loading activity.

The only thing I did differently was to blow out the vent by mouth which does taste funny. It seemed to be clear but maybe my blowing blew something out.

The levelness of the tractor has a drastic impact on the level of fluid on the dipstick. ie, Point the tractor slightly downhill and your level is low.

I didn't want to drain out any fluid until the bubbles were present so my next project will include some 2000+ RPM time to stir things up and also some driving to flow some fluid.