Setting up the King Kutter II Tiller

[kvmapr]

I took the plunge this Spring and bought a 5 foot King Kutter II Tiller to pull behind my Jinma 254. I managed to get it mounted and put a nice finish on the garden plot, but in doing so I came across a couple of set up issues that I wanted to seek your collective advice on...

The first has to do with the adjustments for the skids on either side of the tiller. I noticed the right side skid could be raised one more position (bolt hole) to get the tines deeper into the ground (so I did, see photo 1 below). But on the left hand side of the tiller I can't set the skid to that deepest position because the oil bath housing is in the way. There's simply not enough clearance (see photo 2 below). Anyone else have this problem with their KK II tiller?

Photo 1 - Right side skid has been set into the deepest position (the lowest bolt hole).

Photo 2 - left side skid can't be set to deepest position because clearance between skid and bottom of oil bath housing is too narrow (probably just 1/2 inch, when 1 inch of clearance is needed).

I'll start a second thread for the other set up question I have. This is enough for one post.

Thanks,
KVMAPR

 

[jinman]

The adjuster is just a piece of plate steel with four adjustment holes in it. I suspect that's the way the engineering drawing is done and that's the way they make the part. It's the same part on both sides of the tiller.

 

[kvmapr]

Well that's disappointing. In all other respects I've found this tiller to be well built and quote solid. Seems a shame that they would fall down on something as important as the depth adjustment plate.

 

[xlr82v2]

I haven't really found it to be a problem on mine... it will still till as deep as you want to go... especially on the 2nd pass.

Go out and get yours dirty... you'll see

 

[Baby Grand]

KVMAPR-

My first impression when I set mine up was similar to yours - poor design to have an adjustment position that you can't really use. But Jinman correctly points out why the design is actually a good one: by using the same part in more places they:

1) eliminated the possibility of putting the right side part on the left side
2) reduced the number of different part designs in the assembly
3) doubled the quantity of one part number per assembly

These three factors reduce the overall cost of the tiller to KK and to you. Good engineering choices lead to better products.
Be happy in your work!

-Jim

 

[bjr]

I'm envious of your tiller, wish I could get one. The old generic rice tiller that I converted doen't have any depth ajustment skids. It kind of drags a chain case guard in the dirt (I have build it up occasionly with the welder) but goes plenty deep enough and yours will too. bjr

 

[greenmule]

Yeah,don't let them skids worry you none,set them about as high as they go,evenly. They just dig in after first pass,you have to make 2-3 passes,to get any depth,[I went through same thing as you,but thats what I have now learned.

Whats the second question,pto u joint in back makes clacking noise when you raise it with it running?

Or could it be slip clutch?

 

[kvmapr]

Thanks for all the great feedback. And I have to admit, that after a couple passes through sod, it did till pretty deep. And after just one pass through a garden that was tilled last year, it went deep the very first time. So while my results were good, I just had to ask the question cause that setup just didn't seem right, at the time.

And since you asked, the second question was about how to set the "tilt" (for lack of a better word) to get the best penetration into the ground. Here's what I'm talking about...

When I first hooked up the tiller I had the top link extended pretty far out to keep the tiller in a basically vertical position (when seen from the side) as in Photo 3 below. But this didn't seem to get the tines as deep into the ground as they could potentially go. At least the couple of runs I made in that setting produced some less than satisfying results.

Photo 3 - top link extended and tiller standing up vertical

So I tightened up the top link which caused the tiller to pitch forward, as in Photo 4 below. This seemed to give the tines more bite (but that's just eyeballing it, I didn't really bother examining it closely). And after a couple more runs, it looked like it was doing a better job. But I can't really tell one way or the other.

Photo 4 - top link is shortened and tiller leans farther forward than in photo 3

So I thought it would be a good idea to raise the question here. Should I have the tiller leaned forward the way it is in photo 4? Or should it be stood up vertically as in photo 3?

Thanks for the feedback.
KVMAPR

 

[greenmule]

I don't think it matters that much as far as how deep it tills,but think it matters as to the u joint at slip clutch binding when you pick it up with it running.

I have mine about same tilt as second picture,cause it seems that angle makes less of an angle on drive line when raised and running.[if you know what I mean]

you oughta check the bolts on it after you have used it,and that slip clutch,did you make sure it wasn't froze shut? Its a fine line between sliping and not,after you back off the nuts,till you can slip it with your hand it is a matter of trial as to how tight,you want it loose enough to where it will slip if needed but tight enough you can till without slipping. You can break your pto drive in your tractor if it don't slip when it needs to.

 

[hr3]

Good point Greenmule,, I just bought a new woods tiller and the dealer set it up..he told me about the clutch settings and said that next spring I would have to check it,,, I should have checked it as soon as I got it home,,The first big rock I hit,, "Clunk".. the tractor died..Luckly it didn't hurt anything..

 

[jinman]

KVMAPR, I did see something in one of your pictures that concerns me. What kind of oil did you put into the gearbox? I've never seen gear oil that would cause paint to bubble. In your photo, it's easy to see a trail coming from the gearbox "full plug" because the paint is peeling. It almost looks like someone used brake fluid instead of gear oil.

BTW: On my KKII tiller, I had to retighten the gearbox bolts after the first year's use. Oil was seeping out. Even so, it didn't cause the paint to bubble. That really concerns me most about your tiller. Perhaps there was oil there before they painted the gearbox. If it was that way when you bought it, that really does indicate poor attention to detail in the factory.

 

[xlr82v2]

Kvmapr,

I set mine so that the input shaft on the tiller gearbox is parallel to the tractor's PTO shaft when the tiller is sitting on the ground... basically so that the leading edge of the A frame is perpendicular to the ground. That way when the tiller is in the ground and the driveline is transmitting power, the U joints are operating at similar angles. Your're close in photo 3, just need to tilt toward the tractor a bit more.

The geometry of my 3PH is such that as you raise the implement, it will tilt forward toward the tractor, just like you have in photo 4. It appears that your tractor has similar geometry as well. The main thing to remember is not to raise the tiller fully up with the PTO engaged... just raise it enough to get the tines out of the ground.

 

[xlr82v2]

BTW: On my KKII tiller, I had to retighten the gearbox bolts after the first year's use. Oil was seeping out. Even so, it didn't cause the paint to bubble. That really concerns me most about your tiller. Perhaps there was oil there before they painted the gearbox. If it was that way when you bought it, that really does indicate poor attention to detail in the factory.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[greenmule]

Mine gear boxes were empty when I bought it,,[and of course,paint was dry when I put oil in it],but yeah,that looks like somebody painted over oil. Maybe they've started adding oil.

 

[myyaz33]

my KKII had the paint bubble too (same spot), just not quite as bad. I agree that it was probably a bad prep job before paint and nothing to worry about.

 

[kvmapr]

I don't think it matters that much as far as how deep it tills,but think it matters as to the u joint at slip clutch binding when you pick it up with it running.

I have mine about same tilt as second picture,cause it seems that angle makes less of an angle on drive line when raised and running.[if you know what I mean]

you oughta check the bolts on it after you have used it,and that slip clutch,did you make sure it wasn't froze shut? Its a fine line between sliping and not,after you back off the nuts,till you can slip it with your hand it is a matter of trial as to how tight,you want it loose enough to where it will slip if needed but tight enough you can till without slipping. You can break your pto drive in your tractor if it don't slip when it needs to.

Greenmule, great point about the slip clutch setup. I haven't set it up properly and will be sure to do so before I take her out of the barn next time.

I haven't had the issue of the clutch binding when out of the ground. Everything clears, even when lifted to its highest point. But I also disengage the PTO at the end of every run, before lifting the tines out of the dirt. So there's never really been much opportunity for the slip clutch to bind. I'll watch for it next time I use the tiller. Thanks.

 

[kvmapr]

Kvmapr,

I set mine so that the input shaft on the tiller gearbox is parallel to the tractor's PTO shaft when the tiller is sitting on the ground... basically so that the leading edge of the A frame is perpendicular to the ground. That way when the tiller is in the ground and the driveline is transmitting power, the U joints are operating at similar angles. Your're close in photo 3, just need to tilt toward the tractor a bit more.

xlr8, that's good logic right there. I'll watch the angles of the U joints next time I use it and try to tune them to similar angles. Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[kvmapr]

KVMAPR, I did see something in one of your pictures that concerns me. What kind of oil did you put into the gearbox? I've never seen gear oil that would cause paint to bubble. In your photo, it's easy to see a trail coming from the gearbox "full plug" because the paint is peeling. It almost looks like someone used brake fluid instead of gear oil.

BTW: On my KKII tiller, I had to retighten the gearbox bolts after the first year's use. Oil was seeping out. Even so, it didn't cause the paint to bubble. That really concerns me most about your tiller. Perhaps there was oil there before they painted the gearbox. If it was that way when you bought it, that really does indicate poor attention to detail in the factory.

Jinman, Good eye! I actually didn't notice that when I took the photo, and didn't see it until I was posting the photo to the web. But I do know that the paint bubbling was not there before I filled it with oil. I read the manual before I left the TSC parking lot with my tiller in my truck, went back in the store and bought a big jug of the heavy weight oil they recommended (can't recall the weight off hand). I recall watching the seep hole while I was filling, and when oil came out, I stopped filling. The oil ran down the paint along the line of those bubbles. As it ran, I recall seeing that the paint was nice and smooth. I got a little sloppy in my haste to try out the tiller and didn't wipe up the excess oil.

I also noticed the paint was still soft when I first bought it. I could actually pick soft drips and threads off the edges after I got it home. And two weeks after bringing it home, as I worked on it to get it set up and attached, the paint was still not cured hard. It scratched off far to easy after light dings while turning wrenches.

So I think the heavy oil they recommend is just aggressive enough to bubble that factory fresh paint. I'll have to check it out next chance I get and see how bad it is. Probably gonna have to touch it up to slow down any rust. Thanks for commenting on it though, and thanks for the pointer about tightening up the gear box bolts.

 

[greenmule]

I meant while it was running,its not the clutch its the u joint next to slip clutch,I 'm talking about.

Its a lot speedier to just raise tiller as you get to end,with it running,pto still engaged,turn around[hopefully without having to backup],than just crank throttle back up and slowly lower.Never changing gears,never clutching.

So,if you do it that way,thats when you'll notice that the u joint only likes to go to a certain angle before making bad noises,seems its just the u joint at slip clutch,maybe the clutch resricts it,don't know,but at that point you'll see what I was talking about as to angle of drive line,when raised and to angle of tiller when setting on ground.

It would take me at least twice as long to till my 1/2 acre garden,if I didn't do it as I described,plus wear on your clutch.[plus,its just easier].

Another thing,you can go faster than you think,I till at about 1 mile an hour[probably a little less],so if your using creeper[if you have creeper],don't,use a gear that puts you at about or slightly less than 1 mile an hour.[3/4 to about 1 mile an hour].

 

[jinman]

So I think the heavy oil they recommend is just aggressive enough to bubble that factory fresh paint. I'll have to check it out next chance I get and see how bad it is. Probably gonna have to touch it up to slow down any rust. Thanks for commenting on it though, and thanks for the pointer about tightening up the gear box bolts.

I mentioned this to another tractor owner yesterday. He said he thinks some synthetic oils will cause paint to peel. There might be a synthetic component to the gear oil you bought. The "never dry" paint that KK used could also be the problem.