PTO???

[SilverHawk]

My husband and I purchased our first piece of property (12.5 acres) near Augusta, GA 5 days ago!!! After doing a more thorough walk around, we've decided we need a tractor. The land is relatively flat with 2 ponds, numerous trees where there is good water supply, and a spring fed swampy area that we'd like to cultivate into a real creek. We've decided that we need a loader, a mower, an auger, and a backhoe (we may decide to rent this as needed).
The seller suggestest we get a tractor w/ 35 hp. The numerous hours I've spent online doing research suggest 35 hp, although less hp can run the attachments, the tractor tends to wear out sooner. Now I've discovered PTO. What is the difference, pros/cons between the different types? My husband is set on a Deere. The 4005 has continuous live PTO, the 4105 has independent PTO at a considerable price increase.
Any input would be extremely appreciated.

 

[greenmule]

Well,you don't need a 35 hp tractor,20-25 would work just fine,course 30 would to,as well as 27 or 40-45.

You probably want what they call live pto,on mine its got a two stage clutch,push it in part way,tractor stops,pto keeps turning,push it in all the way,pto stops too.

And look at several brands,I got a 30hp kioti.[unless you just need one that says deere on it for some reason]

 

[MFRED]

Depending on how much you will use th PTO the independent would be worth the extra for me. The live is a 2-stage clutch I'm guessing. If you have'nt run one before it could take some more getting used to. It will surely do the job, I've just spent too much time on tractors with 2-stages to like them.

 

[Soundguy]

Live pto means you can clutch the drivetrain and keep the pto going.. Many times live pto is via a 2-stage clutch.. press half way and the wheels stop getting power... press all the way and the pto stops as well.

independent pto is live pto, plus it is a clutch 'independent' of the drivetran clutch.. IE.. your main clutch stops the wheels.. and your pto engage lever is independent of that.

hydrostatic tractors come in alot of varities.. some have independent pto.. some still curiously use a clutch.. depends on make and model.

I'm not familiar with deer;s nomenclature .. so can't comment onthe specific machines except to say that if you get some sort of live or independent pto.. you will be getting a better option that non live or tranny driven pto's.

35hp and a loader, and perhaps 4wd will be a decent machine for that acerage. sure yo could go bigger or smaller.. etc.. the bigger you get tends to get real expen$ive since you want a laoder and 4wd.. etc.... smaller will make you work more hours doing the same tasks.

i'd say anything in the 30-40hp range will serve you nicely.

soundguy

 

[Diamondpilot]

I would not own a tractor without a "independent" PTO. Especially if you are a beginner. There are ways around it like with a aftermarket overrun clutch but and non "indepnedent" PTO can be very dangerous for many reasons.

Get a tractor with a 2 stage clutch or a "independent" PTO. As for HP I use a 28HP tractor and it does everything I need on about the same land. A FEL and 4x4 are a must for most work. Don't just look at Deere. There are many good brands out there and much more bang for the buck and any tractor 45HP or so or less is built overseas, no matter who name is on it.

Chris

 

[SilverHawk]

Am I to guess correctly that the newer tractors are stronger than the older ones w/ the same hp?

 

[SilverHawk]

At this point, the tractor will be used for mowing, post hole digging and digging trenches for one possibly two leach fields. We'll be putting in a garden next spring so a tiller will be used also. I'm used to driving the Jeep which is a manual. I can see myself accidentally stopping the PTO on a regualar basis so I'll look into a tractor w/ an independent PTO. I know of a JD dealer that is 30 miles from us, so I'll look into who else is in the area. We won't be moving until June, so I have a little time to do more research. I appreciate all of the input! Thanks.

 

[MDM]

Sounds like you are new to tractoring. That said, I think most would recommend a hydrostat transmission over gears. They are so much easier and safer to operate with a beginner. My wife had zero tractor experience, but she will jump on the hydrostat and go, but won't touch the geared tractor.

 

[RickB]

Am I to guess correctly that the newer tractors are stronger than the older ones w/ the same hp?

Absolutely not. In fact, often the reverse is true.

 

[RWolf]

There are several brands out there and most of them are good. Here's my order in which to determine what tractor you need.
1. Dealer support. If you're mechanically inclined then it may not matter as much.
2. HP, 25-40 would put you in the ballpark.
3. Transmission. Here's where the HST and gearheads differ. You choose, drive both.
4. PTO. Again you're going to find people differing on this. This is my take I like the independent on my Deere. It has come in real hand during post hole digging. I can get setup for the dig, put the tractor in park, turn around in the seat, set my rpm and with one hand control engaging/disengaging the PTO and with the other hand control the lift/drop of the auger. No twisting of the neck, no fumbling with the clutch etc.

Biggest thing is to try some brands/models and see what you feel comfortable about. If they'll let you try it for a weekend great.

 

[flusher]

My husband and I purchased our first piece of property (12.5 acres) near Augusta, GA 5 days ago!!! After doing a more thorough walk around, we've decided we need a tractor. The land is relatively flat with 2 ponds, numerous trees where there is good water supply, and a spring fed swampy area that we'd like to cultivate into a real creek. We've decided that we need a loader, a mower, an auger, and a backhoe (we may decide to rent this as needed).
The seller suggestest we get a tractor w/ 35 hp. The numerous hours I've spent online doing research suggest 35 hp, although less hp can run the attachments, the tractor tends to wear out sooner. Now I've discovered PTO. What is the difference, pros/cons between the different types? My husband is set on a Deere. The 4005 has continuous live PTO, the 4105 has independent PTO at a considerable price increase.
Any input would be extremely appreciated.

I bought 10 acres of flat pasture land in Jan05 and in May05 bought my first tractor, a Kubota B7510HST (21 hp 3-cylinder diesel engine, 17 hp pto, 4WD, power steering, hydrostatic transmission) with the LA302 FEL (4-ft wide bucket). $12.6K plus tax.

Used it for 3 years to do all the tasks you listed except backhoe work. Hired that work out since there are many guys with tractor-loader-backhoes (TLBs) around here competing for those jobs and they work cheap.

The pto on that B7510 is the independent type and there are two of them--a 540/960 rpm rear pto and a 2500 rpm mid-pto for mid-mount implements like lawn mowers. You can only use one at a time. My rear mounted, pto-driven implements included a 4-ft brush hog rotary mower and a 4-ft rototiller.

For a first tractor, you would be well advised to find one around 30hp (pto) with the features I listed for that 7510. That way you can ease into tractor ownership relatively painlessly.

 

[Altex]

...4005 has continuous live PTO, the 4105 has independent PTO at a considerable price increase...

I have Live PTO (2 stage clutch). It works fine for me and I've done Alot of post hole diggin. Go out and test drive different ones (and not just the JDs) and check for the ease of engaging the PTO. That will help you decide if the Independent PTO option is worth the extra $.

...I think most would recommend a hydrostat transmission over gears...

HST (Hydrostatic Transmission) is also an important feature that shouldn't be over looked. I know you can drive a manual jeep but that's not the issue. HST is great for manuvering. If you're pulling a plow or similar attachment and just going forward, then no need for HST.
But, if you have to go forward and backwards, i.e. diging out for trenches, using the FEL, setting the Post Hole Digger, HST will be much more efficient and save time. Check it out also.

 

[SilverHawk]

"Sounds like you are new to tractoring."
It's that obvious?!!!
There's a bit of charm in learning how to control the clutch effectively. But the reality is, ease of operation is important at this time. There are 2 stocked ponds on the property also; after reading all of the other replies, I see the need for the HST as I forsee my husband trying to improve them. I also need to be able to easily operate the tractor when he's out of town.
With all of the information I've received, I can't wait to jump behind the wheel!
Thanks!!!

 

[Altex]

...The 4005 has continuous live PTO, the 4105 has independent PTO at a considerable price increase...

Just looked at the stats from the JD website with the 4005 ($14.8k) and the 4105 ($19K). There's more than just the PTO difference. Here's a few listed.

4005 standard:
Live PTO
Collar Shift Transmission (9F/3R)
2 Wheel Drive
41.5 HP

4105 standard:
Independent PTO
Hydrostatic Transmission (HST)
4 Wheel Drive
40.5 HP

The Transmission and the 4wd are more of a factor of the price increase than the PTO difference. And if you're wondering why the 4105 has less HP, that's because of how the HST works.

All in all, between the two, I think you would be much happier with the 4105's standard features. But, as I said before check out other comparative makes. You might find more for your money and needs.

 

[greenmule]

Don't let them scare you with you need hst stuff,if you can drive a standard shift,you will have no trouble with a gear tractor,most gear tractors now have shuttle shift too,you want to check that out.

Think its fair statement to say hst's have more expensive trouble than gear tractor,and add a couple thousand to cost and also take 1-2 hp of your motor just to run it that geared tractors don't.

Also,think you might be better off hiring out the pond digging and ditch digging,these mid size tractors will do alot but they ain't dozers. And backhoe adds maybe 4 grand or more to price,not all that easy to take off and put on,for the money you would spend on that backhoe,you could hire somebody with a rubber tired bigger hoe and a dozer to make your pond and still have enough left over to buy a brushhog probably.

Course,if money is not a concern....

 

[rfk]

As you can see everybody has an opinion. Mine is Check all tractor dealers within in a reasonable distance. Read all all catalog information and spreadsheet what is imporant to you. Sit on and operate for some time not just a drive arround the lot. I don't know if you have a reliable Massey dealer with in that distance but if you do I would suggest looking at the 1529;1531 and 1533. They are of the size and hp your looking at.

 

[greggh]

Sounds like you are new to tractoring. That said, I think most would recommend a hydrostat transmission over gears. They are so much easier and safer to operate with a beginner. My wife had zero tractor experience, but she will jump on the hydrostat and go, but won't touch the geared tractor.

I'm sorry I don't see the danger of a geared tractor. You place the tractor in the gear you want and go. You don't shift the gears like you do on a car or truck...

 

[rtimgray]

I'm sorry I don't see the danger of a geared tractor. You place the tractor in the gear you want and go. You don't shift the gears like you do on a car or truck...

I've always thought that if you HAVE to have HST to comfortably operate a tractor, then you really have no business on a tractor. HST is great/fine, but if someone was scared to run a tractor without it, I would just as soon that they steered clear of tractors altogether.

I promise I don't mean that as negatively as it sounds, and most people probably overstate their need for HST, so it's probably not big a deal anyway.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm sorry I don't see the danger of a geared tractor. You place the tractor in the gear you want and go. You don't shift the gears like you do on a car or truck...

I agree.. I see no inherant huge safety margin built into an HST tranny. It's all learnng curve and expertise of the opertor. I'd take a safe operator on a gear tractor over an unsafe operator on an HST any day of the week.

I've seen HST guys move their tractors from the ground by hand using the hst pedals... IMHO.. tha's an accident waiting to happen..

soundguy

 

[SilverHawk]

I've spent the last 48 hours learning as much as I can and this site has been invaluable!!! Things are starting to make sense to me As a good wife, I've shared all of my new found info with my husband.... You can imagine how well that goes over!

He is absolutely against the HST. He hates automatics and hates the fact I have to take my Ford to the dealer to be worked on. He can work on the manual transmissions, so the need for a good service station is not much of a factor. Price on the other hand is always a factor. Hubby was anticipating the need for a riding lawn mower.... until we signed the papers and took a really good look around the place. I knew a tractor was an investment but I still got sticker shock!

The backhoes I've been looking at are 7-8K. The ponds are all ready established- the small one needs some improvements where the swampy area runs into it. We will also be digging trenches and burying lines for water, spetic and electric. I think the backhoe will pay for itself in the long run. (vs. renting or hiring someone). Storage is not an issue.

I've also started comparing the features of different brands. My grandpa had a Ford to maintain his 5 acres. My step father had an IH and later picked up a Farmall that he entered into antique tractor pulls. My S-F said tractors were for boys so he never let me drive them. My grandpa died before he taught me to drive his. Now my husband and I are joking about who's going to be on the tractor more! What's that quote... 'you can put the girl in the city but you can't take the country out of the girl'? That's me!!

We currently live in MD- 1/2 way between DC and Baltimore. I'm not sure what's around here, but we're going tractor shopping this weekend. We'll probably wait to buy until June when we move to GA. Until then, I'm going to continue to read and learn as much as I can. I've learned more from this site than I have from the internet in general including topics on ants, armadillos and love bugs!!!!