Muddy Driveway Problem

[Q-Saw]

I'm helping a friend fix his driveway that is currently impassable. The house was built a few years ago with what appears to be a skimpy stone base (21-AA) for the driveway. The lower section gets spring moisture and has become a muddy quagmire.

I put in about 5 ton of 3/4" crushed limestone and moved it around with the box scraper, but it's still soupy. Should I switch to larger (3"-4") crushed concrete, or throw a few bags of portland in the stew, or put down fabric with stone on top, or....?

Anybody have any luck stabilizing a situation like this?

(the photo is before the stone was added - but it's not too much better)

Thanks - Marty

 

[plowking]

Looks like there should be some kind of culvert,ditch or swail to carry off the water away from the driveway. Up here we would put down some 3 or 6 inch minus or riprap as a base and fill over it. The geo fabric would have been good before driveway was filled in to keep the base and top material from mixing. plowking

 

[coldkubota]

From the picture the drive is several inches lower than the surrounding yard. You need to get the grade of that driveway above the surrounding drade or find some way to "crown" the drive and prevent any standing water. It might be a little late to take any real action until it dries out. A lot of people are stong supporters of geo textile but I've never used it myself.

 

[skidoo]

Like the other have said, just put down enough 3 to 6" rock until it is about level. You may need to keep adding until it quits sinking. Then add enough 3/4 crush to get the grade above the grass. Then crown it and cut a path to somewhere else lower for the water to go.

 

[Eightpoint]

I would tend to agree with the other posters - I think you need to figure out a way to get the water off the driveway first and then address the gravel situation. It is hard to tell how the rest of the land lays but you may need a culvert and some fill, fill only or just a crown.

 

[Q-Saw]

Thanks for the replies. I already told my friend that he needs to think long term about solving the water problem. Short term, I'm trying to get him in the driveway (he's parking on the road now).

It sounds like I should have started with the 3"-4" stone. I guess I'll try some now and see if it helps. Perhaps I'm too late for geo-textile to help.

- Marty

 

[Egon]

Hard to tell from the one picture but it does look like fill material will have to come from somewhere to build up the road.

With crushed gravel you may be able to build up enough so that it will be higher and solid. Depending on the length this may be the cheapest way to go when you consider the cost of grading into fixing the road.

It has to be crushed gravel though.

 

[irvingj]

When I built my house, I had a very talented one-eyed (no kidding!) dozer operator do the septic, driveway and major excavation. We were on a limited budget, so when he said that "the driveway was going to cost extra" I flinched but trusted his judgement-- we live on a north-facing slope, with springs uphill from my lot and a layer of clay about 3' below the surface.

What he did was:
1. Cut a drainage ditch into the slope near the top, leading diagonally away from the driveway into the woods (on rt, in photo)
2. Dug the driveway down about 3'
3. Added 350 tons (!!) of 5" stone, followed by 150 tons of "hard-pack." (Driveway is about 200' long.)

I thought it was overkill, but every spring it feels great to get off our muddy road and onto my solid driveway! I've also had to have it touched up only two or three times in 23 years- others in the same area have experienced major washouts. He did not use any fabric.

He also said we needed to put in foundation drains on BOTH the inside AND the outside of the footings, something I hadn't ever heard of... but have always enjoyed a dry cellar.

Bottom line, yes, it cost more, but was well spent money. He also explained, and I'm not sure why, that you can't fix a wet driveway by adding stone when it's wet-- stone will just keep sinking-- but if you do it in the fall, the same amount of stone will stay put. Anybody know why? It has certainly worked....

 

[wedge40]

When I built my house, I had a very talented one-eyed (no kidding!) dozer operator do the septic, driveway and major excavation. We were on a limited budget, so when he said that "the driveway was going to cost extra" I flinched but trusted his judgement-- we live on a north-facing slope, with springs uphill from my lot and a layer of clay about 3' below the surface.

What he did was:
1. Cut a drainage ditch into the slope near the top, leading diagonally away from the driveway into the woods (on rt, in photo)
2. Dug the driveway down about 3'
3. Added 350 tons (!!) of 5" stone, followed by 150 tons of "hard-pack." (Driveway is about 200' long.)

..

That is a nice looking driveway. Do you have to groom it often. I'm guessing the excavator isn't around anymore? Mine was not done right the first time and when I win the lottery I plan on tearing it up and starting over.

Wedge

 

[Q-Saw]

He also explained, and I'm not sure why, that you can't fix a wet driveway by adding stone when it's wet-- stone will just keep sinking--

That's what I'm afraid of - dumping a bunch of crushed stone (and money) an it still being not driveable.

Irving - great looking driveway, it looks like you've got a great location too.

- Marty

 

[Egon]

He also explained, and I'm not sure why, that you can't fix a wet driveway by adding stone when it's wet-- stone will just keep sinking--

And he may also be wrong. It has been done before and more than just once!

 

[jimmyj]

What is the soil like in that spot? How deep is it and what is underneath? If you dig down will you hit something more solid than the wet topsiol or is it a quagmire all the way down? I think if it is muddy on top it may be good to strip that wet goo out and then put the larger aggregates down before the smaller stuff on top. The guys have it right though, larger base, divert water and smaller stuff on top.

I think if you just dump a couple of loads of stone on it you'll get through for a while but that stone will be as good as gone if it's really a muddy spot.

At our place we put the grindings from an asphalt re-surface on top and packed it in the summer heat. It melted together like a paved (but rough) surface and is awesome. Again, this is only for the final topper.

 

[ray66v]

Like everyone said, you need to dry out this spot, either by adding drainage, or building it up, or both. Otherwise, no matter how much stone you put down, it will go down to China.

I would like to emphasize how important the Geotex fabric is. Unless your going to put down 20" of properly compacted stone, you really want to use it. Any gravel you put on top of the fabric, stays on top. If an area gets wet, during the spring or fall, it cannot get muddy. It is very good insurance.

With fabric, on decent ground, you can get a nice lasting drive, (for cars), using (3) 2" layers of compacted #304. Then, add one thin layer of #57, (or your preference), to cap the top.

 

[EddieWalker]

There's always a multiple way to go at this, but the basics are always the same. Get rid of the water and keep it away. This is priority number one and the only real thing that you should be thinking about. Adding stone and trying to make it so you can drive on it sounds nice, but it does not address the problem. Fix the problem and the rest is easy.

Where is the water coming from? Where can it go? This is what you need to be looking at. If it takes a big, long and sometimes deep trench, then that's just what has to be done. A culvert is probably needed too. The only reason you wouldn't need a culvert is if the water can be channeled off to BOTH sides of the road. My guess is one side is going to be lower then the other and where you want to send the water.

Rule of thumb for culverts is that you need half the width of the culvert in material above the culvert for it to have it's full strength. Put in a 12 inch culvert, be sure to have 6 inches of material above it.

Once you get the water figured out, and the area drying out, you need to raise the road base above the water line. You don't want standing water to soak into the sides of your road. You want the water to shed away from the road so it stays dry. Dirt is the cheapest way to go on this. Nobody is going to spend the money to do this buying rock. That's just crazy. Build up the road with dirt, compact it, crown it, and shape the sides for mowing. Once this is done, then you can add rock or whatever.

If this was a construction site or some special need site where you needed to get there right away, bring in equipment or something like that, then you would got the big rock base, smaller rock build up and crushed rock top to get through it. This is expensive and usually temporary. It's what you seem to be doing.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[ToadHill]

I had a low spot in my drive that was always muddy. I rented a backhoe and dug a trench from the muddy spot to a place downhill into an empty field. The trench was about 3 ft. deep. I put in a drain pipe (Flexable pipe with drain holes in it, covered it with geo-fabric and backfilled the hole with large rock and gradually decreased the size of the rock until the top layer was the same as the driveway material.

This was the only way I could fix the problem without adding a major amount of fill since the land had a natural dip in the across the whole side of the hill that the drive cuts across.

This did fix the problem.

 

[forester2]

FABRIC-FABRIC-FABRIC!!!! With our soils and freezing and thawing here in WNY it's the only way to go. Come look at my 20 year old driveway.

 

[Compact1]

... you can't fix a wet driveway by adding stone when it's wet-- stone will just keep sinking-- but if you do it in the fall, the same amount of stone will stay put. Anybody know why? It has certainly worked....

Sounds strange but it works. Trust the good ole' Farmer's Almanac for such knowledge

 

[radioman]

Judging from the picture, it appears that water has been collecting in 2 pools in lower part of the picture from the freeze/thaw causing those potholes. It also appears that the water seems to be draining to that area from left to the right. The rigth side of the lawn needs to have a trench dug now to relocate the water collecting in driveway away from the driveway. Since the spring rains are coming, the trench needs to be dug up now with a shovel in the mud and watch the water move so you can determine the best course to move the water away before the driveway gets worse.

Once the water is being drained, I would scrape up the stones down 6" to 12" in that troublesome spot. From judging from the picture, you might need to do 25 ft long area and then put down the fabric . When laying down the fabric, be sure you are not creating a pool shaped liner with fabric, the ends needs to be flat with center to keep water from pooling in center. then put down the base and topping as others has said. This should help your soft soft, allowing vehicles to pass by without driving in mud. Note: I did not say solve- but rather help the solution in short term before it gets worse. It's possible it will solve the problem, but like others said, a good base is needed, but then it costs money. good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

[JB4310]

I go through this every spring especially as I'm expanding my gravel drive and parking areas, I add what we call here small process which is 3/4" stone mixed with small size pcs down to dust. packs like a son of a gun, I dig out just the surface mud down maybe 4 inches and lay this stuff in 4-6 inches, if there's still frost down under it, it will take a while to firm up but next year you wont have a problem in that same spot.

I just got about 8.5 tons of process yesterday and 4 tons of dust to finish the top, the dust or screenings when packed down and sealing the top of the process will not even scrape up with snow plow.

We have the highest quality Basalt trap rock around here, the process costs $12. a ton and the dust is $12,50 ton.
This stuff is as dense as it gets, the picture of the stone in the trailer is 4.5 tons.

JB.

 

[George2615]

Hard to tell from one pic but I agree it looks like it's a low spot that needs to be built up. I don't know if your driveway extends any further than you show but to build it up get a dumptruck load of bank run (cheaper than run a crush or limestone) and spread it out about 6-8" thick. Once that is packed down you add your limestone or run a crush on top. I had a similar muddy driveway when I bought my house. I had 6 truckloads of bank run brought in and leveled out and packed down with a dozer about 6-8" thick. Then run a crush on top. Mine lasted 17 years before I had to top it off with a fresh topping of run a crush again.