Just how do you BUY AMERICAN?

[Renze]

I don't mind buying from foreign countries, it's buying from China that harms our country. If you read my previous posts and look at my own personal consumption patterns, you'd see that I do buy foreign products. I just try like heck to avoid Chinese.

Why Chinese ? because of the threat of Communism, the lack of human rights there, their profiteering way of them getting major influence into foreign economies ?
Or just because of the poor quality of their stuff ?

 

[Scooby074]

I was just reading the other day about Silicon plants in China. Basically the world has a major shortage of raw Silicon due to the increased production of solar cells and the chinese have stepped up to fill the shortfall. Making silicon uses some pretty nasty stuff and has some equally bad waste. Western companys recycle this waste back into their system. What do the chinese do? They dump it into the farmers fields next to the plant. The price difference between Chinese and western production is staggering something like $85 a ton? with proper waste handling to around $30 when you dump it on your neighbour.

So i ask, How can a western company compete with someone in a country with zero regulation and is willing to poison their own to get ahead? Something has to be done to level the playing field.

 

[Renze]

So i ask, How can a western company compete with someone in a country with zero regulation and is willing to poison their own to get ahead? Something has to be done to level the playing field.

I have been a principal opposer of market protection for a long time, to give 3rd world economies a fair chance of a better future..

However, we must not forget that there are people (companies, regimes) that dont share our moral standards with respect to environment, human rights, freedom of speech, democracy. These countries can produce cheaper due to their irresponsibility in those matters. They simply cheat, more or less !!

let me explain:

The supply/demand driven system on its own, is only promoting the best quality for the lowest price... To minimise the unwanted side effects, this is corrected by national laws and moral standards to protect our common values regarding environment, human rights, freedom of speech, democracy.
When these countries dont have the same laws as us, to correct the unwanted results of a supply/demand driven economy (greed and irresponsibility at the cost of human rights and environment) they just CHEAT our economical system !!!

Is it arrogant to force our Western moral standards upon China ?? maybe....
Is it hypocrite to allow ourself the temptation to buy goods produced under conditions that we dont want, by letting it into our markets ? ...I'm afraid it is....


However it gives any politician a hard time to scale foreign economies in our moral standards, to decide how much import tax we need to level the playing field... Unfortunately we have to protect ourselfs as much from THEIR greed, as from our own greed


...We cant solve the worlds problems during a sunday afternoon beer...

 

[patrick_g]

Good Mornin Pat,
Everything that you stated in your post is true !!!


The only way around it is to buy used !

Heres a used acquisition for yea, all kidding aside, I think its about impossible in todays world !

Its really sad, and i wish I had an answer for you.

BTW, my wife got me a new Dewalt drill driver cordless for Christmas, thanks for reminding me its Chinese !

I have 2 DeWalt impact drivers and 2 DeWalt cordless drills (one is also hammer drill) 4 chargers and a stack of batteries all of which work fine but all of which I wish I had not bought. I wish I had been more savvy so I would not have started stocking my shop with DeWalt/Delta. I have the 12 inch slide miter saw, 2 each 14 inch abrasive cut off saws, and 3 each 4 1/2 inch angle grinders. In a one week period one of the cut off saws and two of the angle grinders died. The factory repair station says the angle grinders are throw away as min repair cost exceeds cost of buying another. The cut off saw just barely made the hurdle and got repaired.

I also have a 3/8 inch Milwaukee VSR corded drill with twist lock easy replace cord. It is the Magnum Hole Shooter and is VERY powerful. If you stick a bit or a hole saw you might very well be injured as it will wrap you up. I'm a fairly large lad with large hands and wrists but I have to two hand that drill or get hurt if there is a problem using a large bit or hole saw. The drill is about 40 years old and is BETTER than new. It is way more powerful than my Black and Decker 1/2 inch so I upgraded it to a 1/2 inch chuck.

I also have a 2 speed Milwaukee Sawzall, same age, still works great. I don't know how to overwork it or wear it out.

I have a 5 year old US MADE Milwaukee miter saw with way more power than the DeWalt.

I also buy Chinese from HF. Why not? The choice often isn't whether or not to buy American but from whom you buy Chinese. You can buy Chinese from Sears and have it labeled Craftsman or buy DeWalt or Delta and it is Chinese too and ditto Black and Decker and on and on. There isn't enough used good American made tools and equipment around to satisfy demand.

Maybe a silver lining in the Chinese import game is that they may be so dependent on us as customers that it would not be in their best economic interests to nuke us.

OK, I guess my original question (title of the thread), Just how do you BUY AMERICAN was in fact a trick question in that the real answer is that YOU CAN'T, even if you want to and make an effort to do so you probably can't because there is little or no goods in some categories made in America from American materials by American workers.

Pat

 

[Iron Brew]

FWIW, a few years ago we were asked to bid on casting some aluminum valve bodies (we had a little machine shop/foundry operation). We didn't win. We were asked to bid just on the "as cast" bodies. The winning bid came from China, cast, machined, assembled, and FOB the customer for just a $1 or so more than we could get the raw materials and fuel... We were using "new" aluminum from a large foundry supplier, with the better prices they give out. No way at all to compete...

 

[Builder]

Why Chinese ? because of the threat of Communism, the lack of human rights there, their profiteering way of them getting major influence into foreign economies ?
Or just because of the poor quality of their stuff ?

I listed my reasons about 5 posts prior to your's in this thread, but here they are again:

My reasons are many but many Americans died defending China from the Japanese invasion at the beginning of WWII. Our country saved China from being overrun by Japan and the thanks we get from China is billions in patent infringement, unfair trade imbalances, dumping of their products into our markets subsidized by their govenment and currency manipulation on a massive scale. Now China is performing naval excersises with that clown in Venezuela out near Cuba.

Call me crazy or laugh, but China is harming us everyday, yet Americans don't care. They just keep buying their cheap, plentiful products on a massive scale. As much as I hate to say it, Americans are just too stupid to know that they are bit by bit digging their way to a lower social status with every Chinese product they buy.

Someday, this will all come back to haunt us. At a minimum, we will lose our world power status to China if we don't begin to reverse the process. China is building factories and infrastructure at a furious pace and America is tearing her's down just as fast.

 

[3RRL]

I owned a manufacturing company and saw many customers drift off buying in Hong Kong, Taiwan, then Chinese products instead of mine. This started many years ago in the 80's. I sold my business and it forced me into early retirement (a good thing).
My earnings were down so I thought I'd get even.
I bought a Chinese tractor in hopes that is was sub-let to American companies.
Of course it's not.
But I can still make just about every single component myself other than electronics...which I've done when needed. So now it's more American made than some others. I buy what fits the pocket book and fix it myself if it breaks. Just about anything you buy now is not American made anyway, you can see that by all the replies. It all breaks or wears eventually. For me, the fixin's the same.

 

[Builder]

I have 2 DeWalt impact drivers and 2 DeWalt cordless drills (one is also hammer drill) 4 chargers and a stack of batteries all of which work fine but all of which I wish I had not bought. I wish I had been more savvy so I would not have started stocking my shop with DeWalt/Delta. I have the 12 inch slide miter saw, 2 each 14 inch abrasive cut off saws, and 3 each 4 1/2 inch angle grinders. In a one week period one of the cut off saws and two of the angle grinders died. The factory repair station says the angle grinders are throw away as min repair cost exceeds cost of buying another. The cut off saw just barely made the hurdle and got repaired.

I also have a 3/8 inch Milwaukee VSR corded drill with twist lock easy replace cord. It is the Magnum Hole Shooter and is VERY powerful. If you stick a bit or a hole saw you might very well be injured as it will wrap you up. I'm a fairly large lad with large hands and wrists but I have to two hand that drill or get hurt if there is a problem using a large bit or hole saw. The drill is about 40 years old and is BETTER than new. It is way more powerful than my Black and Decker 1/2 inch so I upgraded it to a 1/2 inch chuck.

I also have a 2 speed Milwaukee Sawzall, same age, still works great. I don't know how to overwork it or wear it out.

I have a 5 year old US MADE Milwaukee miter saw with way more power than the DeWalt.

I also buy Chinese from HF. Why not? The choice often isn't whether or not to buy American but from whom you buy Chinese. You can buy Chinese from Sears and have it labeled Craftsman or buy DeWalt or Delta and it is Chinese too and ditto Black and Decker and on and on. There isn't enough used good American made tools and equipment around to satisfy demand.

Maybe a silver lining in the Chinese import game is that they may be so dependent on us as customers that it would not be in their best economic interests to nuke us.

OK, I guess my original question (title of the thread), Just how do you BUY AMERICAN was in fact a trick question in that the real answer is that YOU CAN'T, even if you want to and make an effort to do so you probably can't because there is little or no goods in some categories made in America from American materials by American workers.

Pat

I own almost all Milwaukee tools. My older ones are domestic made, so are my bigger ones. My 28V cordless stuff is made in Czech republic, Canada, mexico and USA.

Now I just bought a little 12V driver/drill. It was made in China. I emailed Milwaukee customer hotline an b*tched-up a storm about it. Their answer to me is they have plants all over the world. My Milwaukee service center owner told me they'll build most of their tools in China in the next few years. The only American plant left is the Milwaukee Saw works plant. My new 1&3/4" rotohammer is US made.

 

[Renze]

I listed my reasons about 5 posts prior to your's in this thread, but here they are again:

No offense intended, but i was hoping you could recapitulate your rant in some well defined points.. nevermind

 

[scott_vt]

Does it matter ?
WHY does it matter ?
You want cheap ? - You got cheap.
Does the US EXport anything ?

Would you get steamed up about the Hardly Doesn'tRun plant in York, PA ?
(if you knew, maybe you do).

Good Afternoon Reg,
There was a time in HD history that i may of agreed with that statement, but not today ! Their manufacturing process is by far way ahead of where they were !!! My son bought a 2006 Super Glide a couple of years back and I was quite impressed with it. I owned older HD's years ago and there was no comparison to todays machine IMHO !

Reg,
What about the H.D. plant in York,Pa.?I'd like to know........Seriously!!!!

Digger2

Good Afternoon Digger2,
I would like to know also ! Seriously !