Finish nailer Choice

[sunspot]

My Wife and I are installing a wood floor in our house. I'm using engineered pre-finished planks 1/2" by 5".

I am using a Bostitch MIIIFS stapler as my main tool but it will not fit in the first and last row.

I'm shopping for a finish nailer and I have come across 2 types. A straight and angle nailer. Per the Portor-Cable web site, straight and angle describes the nail itself, not the nailer.

Would someone tell me what the difference is to the consumer (me)?

Product Compare

 

[AlanB]

I am not positive, but the difference between those two from what I see, is how you open the face when you get a Jam.

The side opening I bet is no tool, the front I bet you need an allen wrench to pull the nose face off and clear the bent and mangled nails.

When you said straight and angled I would tell you to get a straight to get in corners better but the comparison shows two angle nailers too me.

I would pick the one that nails were available for easily locally.

I have the HF model and have been very happy with it and have done several bamboo floors.

 

[sunspot]

Alan, What do you use for the end pieces? Finish nails, brads or what? What guage? Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this.

BTW, how do you like the bamboo? I was thinking of using vertical ply bamboo flooring.

 

[ktm250rider]

If you have the budget and are going to be doing more trim type jobs, Id look at a Paslode or similar cordless finish nailer. I have a porter cable 2 1/2 angle gun and a 1 1/2 straight brad nailer. Its a pain carting the compressor and hose around the house when doing finish work.
OH yeah, the ones you are looking at just look like they take different nails. Never heard of a "DA" nail. Those are both angle nailers due to the angle of the nail slot in relation to the hammer.

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I used a cleat nailer until I was too close to the wall, then switched to a 16 ga finish nailer shooting though the tongues until the last course, which I fired through the top of the plank to set. The row of nails is covered by my 3/4" thick trim.

My floor is a medium carbon vertical bamboo, and it looks great! (or so our holiday guests told me)

The difference between straight & angled finish nailers in the angle of the tray the nails rest in compared to the direction the nail shoots. In a straight gun, the nail tray is parallel to the floor when shooting nails straight down. In an angled gun, the tray is angled up and away from the floor. (like a framing nailer, almost all of which are angled)

 

[shvl73]

Never heard of a "DA" nail.

Senco used to be a popular finish nailer. They had a brad head finish nail when a lot of the competition used T-head finish nails. All of their finish nails started with the DA prefix, with the exception of the 8d using a UA prefix. I believe the UA series 8d were a heavier guage. Possibly they are stating that it will use Senco compatible nails?

 

[2manyrocks]

The manufacturers change models so much that it's hard to give advice. You might look at this video comparison: Videos - Fine Homebuilding

 

[sunspot]

There seems to be 2 types of finish nailers that use 2 different nails.

The nail magazine can be straight or angled and depending on the model, it can use straight or angled headed nails.

So I can have a straight magazine tool that uses a straight nail or an angled head nail but they would be different model guns.

Same deal with an angled magazine gun. Straight or angle nail but not interchangeable.

What is the angle head nail used for? Does it fire into the wood at an angle so the nail head is level to the wood?

 

[EddieWalker]

Dana

I've had three Porter nail guns. A finish nailer, a brad nailer and a staple gun. All failed on me fairly quickly and I replaced them with Rigid from Home Depot. I'm not really a fan of Rigid or Home Depot brand tools, but I needed the brad nailer right away and Home Depot was the closest to me. They had Porter Cable, Bostic and Rigid to choose from. I've been very pleased and even impressed with the Rigid.

When my Porter Cable stapler died, I replaced it with the Rigid model. I'm also very pleased with it. When the finish nailer died, I just tossed it out and have been using nails and a hammer for those rare times that I want to use finish nails.

For small jobs or tight locations, I've found it's faster and easier to just get out the hammer and do it the old fashioned way. I just finished a laundry room remodel and re-used the original base boards. It just took a few minutes to put them back on with finish nails and my hammer.

Can you do those spots with a hammer and finish nail instead of spending the money on another nailer that you might not even need or have a use for after this project is over?

Eddie

 

[dynasim]

I just put in 1800 sqft of 5" X 3/4 hard maple, and had the edge problem. I used a harbor freight 15 gauge nailer. For limited use, it works quite well, and it was 60 bucks. I say for limited use just because I haven't used it intensively, not because it wasn't built well or I had problems.

However, if I was to do it again, I would use finish screws, as they help pull the wood down. You have to predrill the flooring, but it is quick, and very secure. The heads are nearly as invisible as finish nails.

Chris

 

[heehaw]

"finish screws?" thats a new one to me: where do you get such a thing?
heehaw

 

[ray66v]

I have had a Bostich 15 ga. angled finish nailer for 20 years. It has never given me any trouble. An angled nailer get in to tight areas, and nails on angles better.

I would avoid using staples on flooring. Actually, I don't like them very much on most things. They don't put up much resistance to forces that pull on them.

Trim screws are ok, in situations where there are no other options. They can be a pain to work with.

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

"finish screws?" thats a new one to me: where do you get such a thing?
heehaw

rockler, woodcraft, mcfeeley's...
google "trim head screw" and quite a few options show up. (McFeeley's also sells a countersink and drill bit to limit splitting out - I'm pretty sure the others will as well)

 

[EddieWalker]

I would avoid using staples on flooring. Actually, I don't like them very much on most things. They don't put up much resistance to forces that pull on them.

Gotta disagree with you on this. Staples will more then double the holding power of a nail or brad of the same size. The staple is just as long as the brad, but has the added holding force of going over what it's holding. I use 1 1/2 inch staples for those times when I want extra holding power, but don't want to have to hide the head of a screw.

The disadvantage to staples is they create more damage to the surface of what you go through then a brad. For baseboards or most trim, a brad is 2inch brad is perfect. For paneling or thin plywood on a ceiling, it's hard to beat a staple.

Eddie

 

[2manyrocks]

Your question----"What is the angle head nail used for? Does it fire into the wood at an angle so the nail head is level to the wood?"

The angle of the nailer is supposed to make it easier to hold the nail gun to shoot a nail in a corner. The nail strips that go into the nailer have to match the nail gun itself so they feed correctly. Getting the head of the nail level to the wood depends on (1) your holding the nailer so it drives the nail straight into the wood and (2) the depth setting on the nail gun. Most of them having settings so you control how deeply they drive the nail. You don't want the nail over or under driven if you can avoid it.

You could certainly predrill your holes and hand drive your nails as suggested. If you have a lot of flooring and will also be putting up a lot of trim, then a finish nailer should speed up your work.

 

[ray66v]

Gotta disagree with you on this. Staples will more then double the holding power of a nail or brad of the same size.
Eddie

Yes, but the point is moot. When I nail something, I don't use little bitty nails the size of staples.

If you ever remove T-111 siding, roof sheathing, OSB or plywood flooring, that has been stapled on, You will see, staples don't hold ****. Many times, you can pull the material off with your hands.

I recently did a job where $4K worth of vinyl floor was scrapped, because the builder stapled the sub floor down. The crowns of the staples were starting to pull out, and poke up through the vinyl after 3 years. This was particularly aggravating, because I told the homeowner, (a family member), NOT to let them use staples. The builder, (now out of business), assured him, they do it all the time, and there would be no problem.

Suit yourself, I own all different types of pneumatic staplers, off the top of my head, carpet is the only thing I can think of, I would use one for anymore. I'm not willing to risk my reputation, to save a few bucks on fasteners.

 

[EddieWalker]

OK, we're talking about different things here. I was referring to finish staples in trim and detail work. Not framing or rough in work. I've never seen staples used on OSB or plywood flooring except on mobile homes, and they are just pure junk anyway. Every corner that can be cut has been cut when assembling them. I've also seen exterior siding installed with staples on sheds where they also cut corners to the extreme.

In those conditions, I agree that staples do not hold as well as nails. For really good holding power, I prefer screws to nails, but for the most part, the right nail for the job is still the best choice.

Another place where I really hate staples is in shingles. In almost every case where I see shingles that have come loose, or there is some sort of a problem, staples were used. They just don't hold the shingles down when it gets windy and the shingle tears right through the staple. Of course, short nails are just as bad as staples. Those one inch roofing nails should be illegal, but roofers use them around here to save a buck on buying the longer nails.

Eddie

 

[ray66v]

Another place where I really hate staples is in shingles. In almost every case where I see shingles that have come loose, or there is some sort of a problem, staples were used. They just don't hold the shingles down when it gets windy and the shingle tears right through the staple. Eddie

This problem was mostly due to operator error. The staple is supposed to proud of the shingle. No penetration of the shingle is acceptable. Operators commonly used full available air pressure, and countersunk the staple half way through the shingle.

The other problem was, the shingles produced in the hey day of stapling, had a very high rate of defective sealing strips, and cellophane dividers sticking to the front as they were removed from the bundles. Careless installers did not remove these, or use adhesive on the missing areas, leaving the countersunk staples to hold the shingles on the roof.

When the seal strips work as they are supposed to, every fastener holds each individual shingle, in that case, if those staples are installed just proud of the shingle, and not countersunk, they will hold.

Many years ago, before roofing nailers, I stapled on about 250 sq. of shingles. Not one ever blew off.

My concern with it now would be that I have seen old OSB in a poorly ventilated attic, sometimes get spongy, and not hold a nail well, leading me to wonder how well it would hold a staple.

 

[2manyrocks]

The substrate makes a difference in whether staples hold or not. My hazy recollection is that nails are preferred for holding finish flooring to an OSB type subfloor.

Overdriven fasteners, nails or staples, aren't as secure are fasteners that are set to the correct depth.

Staples have their place. I built a stage platform out of 1 x 4's and 1 x 6's by stapling and gluing 1/4 plywood to make truss type connections. Staples are very good and cheap in that application because they just hold everything in place until the glue dries.

 

[sunspot]

I'm using staples as my main tool for the flooring. They are 15 guage, 1/2" crown and 2 1/2" long. I staple to every joist and 2 in between the joist. So far, on the few the did not penatrate due to user error, they hold very well. My errors were stuck in but good. I needed a large pair of channel locks to remove them.