Finish or Rotary?? - Again

[greg_g]

There's no need to hack. Try sharpening your blade! YMMV, but for me it's hard to tell the difference between the cut fom a rotary cutter and a finish mower. Do an honest comparison and you'll be surprised. And the RC is much quieter and less dusty then the RFM.

Please tell use you're joking. Because "sharpening" rotary cutter blades only shortens their lifespan, usually because chronic leading edge damage results in a constant need to "re-sharpen". RC blade maintenance should only involve grinding out any leading edge damage, restoring the attack angle, then be left with a blunt leading edge of at least 1/8" thickness.

And noise? Good grief!! Both my RCs (6' IM-602/5' Futon) are much louder than my 7' (GM35-84) finish mower. It's belt drive that makes the difference. And I can't say that one type kicks up any more dust than the other. Believe me, it does get dusty here in the heat of the summer. Plus, I have to clean inches of cutting residue off the RC decks after every use, but the finish mower is always clean. Less pasture damage too: finish mower doesn't leave visible scars in the turns, and the center roller minimizes scalping.

Do you actually own a rotary cutter? Or are you just relating experience with a cheap little finish mower? Or do you only use RC as a lawn mower? The answers might suggest that the "honest comparison" shoe could be on the wrong foot here.

//greg//

 

[jinman]

Every single thing on my 5 year old GM35-84 is OE. Nothing's ever broken, nothings ever been replaced, nothings ever been added. Next time I have that mower mounted, I'll lift it for an underside photo. That should give you a fair idea how well the blades have held up to 5 years of mowing these rocky hillside pastures.//greg//

Wow! Five years is truly unbelievable. I generally replace mower blades on my riding mower at least once per year, not because of wear on the cutting surface, but because the fin on the back of the blade erodes away. The blade's lift is compromised and patches of uncut grass appear near the blade overlap. I just replaced the blades on my new JD riding mower I bought earlier this year. The fins were paper thin and about 1/2 eroded away. This has been true for every mower with high speed blades I've ever used. Sand is the culprit.

I'm sure your blades are much higher grade than mine, but do you ever see this type of erosion?

 

[WilliamBos]

I can support those observations relative to the comparatively light duty 4/5/6 foot finish mowers. But you have to see this 7 foot First Choice perform to believe it. Cutting height is adjustable up to 5 inches by fabricating an extra shim. It's strong; 3/4" saplings/fist sized rocks - no problem. Mixed grass & brush, no problem. It's stout; heat treated blades, oversized gauge wheel spindles, enclosed lift pins, no dents in deck after 5 years, haven't even had a flat tire. It's excellent value for the money - BUT ONLY FOR tractors that can handle the size.

Matter of fact, just compare the spec sheets on First Choice Equipment

//greg//

Thanks for that link. Just what I was looking for. I wonder how much shipping would be??

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Please tell use you're joking. Because "sharpening" rotary cutter blades only shortens their lifespan, usually because chronic leading edge damage results in a constant need to "re-sharpen". RC blade maintenance should only involve grinding out any leading edge damage, restoring the attack angle, then be left with a blunt leading edge of at least 1/8" thickness.

//greg//

There it is folks! Probably the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on TBN!

Sharpening a bush hog blade to a keen edge is absolutely ne different that sharpening a finish mower blade. All facts considered, a bush hog blade sharpened to a fine edge should last LONGER than a MUCH thinner lawn mower blade when mowing in conditions slightly more harsh than intended for a lawn mower.

My opinion, that of a mowing contractor who has equipment that logged a little over 6400 hours in the field in the last year alone. Your results may vary when based on theory and limited experience.

A bush hog blade intended to be used in conditions typical for a bush hog SHOULD be ground slightly blunt. But the same mower CAN (very successfully I might add) be sharpened to a fine edge and get an excellent quality of cut, along with a long life.

After being totally unimpressed with a Woods 7' finish mower I used to cut the 8 acres around my house, I started cutting it with a Bush Hog 286 "rotary cutter" I own. I sharpened the blades to an ALMOST "sharp" edge. I get excellent results that mirror the quality of cut I get with the Dixie Chopper I also own. The EXACT same mower is used 4 or 5 days a week on a mowing crew. (cutting state hwy right-of-ways) No damage, no shortened blade life, no negative impact.

 

[have_blue]

A bush hog blade intended to be used in conditions typical for a bush hog SHOULD be ground slightly blunt. But the same mower CAN (very successfully I might add) be sharpened to a fine edge and get an excellent quality of cut, along with a long life.

After being totally unimpressed with a Woods 7' finish mower I used to cut the 8 acres around my house, I started cutting it with a Bush Hog 286 "rotary cutter" I own. I sharpened the blades to an ALMOST "sharp" edge. I get excellent results that mirror the quality of cut I get with the Dixie Chopper I also own. The EXACT same mower is used 4 or 5 days a week on a mowing crew. (cutting state hwy right-of-ways) No damage, no shortened blade life, no negative impact.

Thank you! Finally someone that has actually tried going against "conventional wisdom" before quoting it!


Now,,, if I had rocks, or was going to cut heavy brush, I wouldn't sharpen them until they were really dull.

 

[greg_g]

Thanks for that link. Just what I was looking for. I wonder how much shipping would be??

They're just the manufacturer, you'd have to actually buy one from an dealer in your area that sells the First Choice brand. If I recall, somewhere on that site you can search for dealers by ZIP code.

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

There it is folks! Probably the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on TBN!

'Scuse me, but you just contradicted yourself within your own post. This thread is about a fella who wants to know whether to buy a rotary cutter or a finish mower for pasture maintenance. I described the end result desired in maintaining a rotary cutter blade for just that purpose; specifically, it should be "left with a blunt leading edge of at least 1/8" thickness".

You call that ridiculous, yet go on to state "A bush hog blade intended to be used in conditions typical for a bush hog SHOULD be ground slightly blunt." So how does that make my statement ridiculous, and yours correct?

Sure you can get closer to a normal life from a rotary cutter blade sharpened to a knife edge - IF - if it's not subjected to anything more abusive than a typical lawn. But the OP is talking pasture, and I responded to the knife edge claim from the perspective of pasture.

But go ahead - sharpen that sucker good enough to shave with. Then tell me what your first five words might be - immediately after hitting three fist-sized rocks and a hidden T-post. So let's try to avoid mixing the apples with the oranges here - ok?

//greg//

 

[have_blue]

Please tell use you're joking. Because "sharpening" rotary cutter blades only shortens their lifespan, usually because chronic leading edge damage results in a constant need to "re-sharpen". RC blade maintenance should only involve grinding out any leading edge damage, restoring the attack angle, then be left with a blunt leading edge of at least 1/8" thickness.

Sorry, I'm serious as a heart attack.

My grass and my Bush Hog beg to disagree with you. Just mowing grass, I touch up my blades to a very sharp edge every 5-10 acres I guess. It takes 15 minutes, and at that rate of removal, my blades should last, oh, say 375 years.

In fact, I do exactly as you suggest, save for the blunt edge. My tractor absolutely loves the sharp edges. Try it. It requires 5-10 less HP, and you can slow down the PTO quite a bit.

And noise? Good grief!! Both my RCs (6' IM-602/5' Futon) are much louder than my 7' (GM35-84) finish mower. It's belt drive that makes the difference. And I can't say that one type kicks up any more dust than the other. Believe me, it does get dusty here in the heat of the summer. Plus, I have to clean inches of cutting residue off the RC decks after every use, but the finish mower is always clean. Less pasture damage too: finish mower doesn't leave visible scars in the turns, and the center roller minimizes scalping.

I don't know what it is with the RFM's I have used. Maybe the thin housings, maybe the thin blades with a lot of lift (pitch angle), maybe loose belt guards, or a combination of things. Or maybe my SQ172 is extra quiet. But that's just me. I believe you when you say your RFM is quieter than your RC. Mine isn't, not by a long shot. It makes a very agreeable swishing noise in grass and light weeds.

Do you actually own a rotary cutter? Or are you just relating experience with a cheap little finish mower? Or do you only use RC as a lawn mower? The answers might suggest that the "honest comparison" shoe could be on the wrong foot here.

Now really, we don't want to go there.

 

[greg_g]

Just mowing grass

Ok, that's the answer I expected. It explains your "cutting edge" philosophy. But do you really think the knife-edge is also appropriate for rough cutting out in a pasture? Clearing brush? Mowing through roadside litter?

//greg//

 

[scott_vt]

I can support those observations relative to the comparatively light duty 4/5/6 foot finish mowers. But you have to see this 7 foot First Choice perform to believe it.

//greg//

Good Afternoon Greg,
I dont doubt your word one minute on what the 7 ft First Choice finish mower can do ! But by your own admission, it costs $1800, even though you got a great bargain on it at $1000. If your going to pay upwards of $2000 for a finish mower, why not spend ther same amount of money on a SQ-172 and truly have the proper tool for the job ? My point is that after using a finish mower out in the pasture, even a stout unit like you have, and then you want to cut a beautifully manicured lawn, I would think you would want to touch up the blades after hitting a rock or two and some small saplings ? JMO !

 

[greg_g]

My point is that after using a finish mower out in the pasture, even a stout unit like you have, and then you want to cut a beautifully manicured lawn, I would think you would want to touch up the blades after hitting a rock or two and some small saplings ? JMO !

And you're completely entitled to it. But consider that my posts in this thread have been composed around the OP request for advice on mowing a pasture. Just so happens the only thing I use my finish mower for IS pasture grooming, so I never envisioned myself trying tomanicure a lawn with it. You'd need a helluva big lawn for a seven footer anyway.

Besides, I'm still waiting to find out if the OP tractor can even handle a GM35-84. My comments only address that finish mower - and only that finish mower - relative to pasture grooming. I'm not addressing lawns mowing at all. If he can't handle (or afford) a GM35-84, then my job here is done

Now if the OP changes his requirement to a multi-purpose machine, then it's appropriate to take a 2nd look.

//greg//

edit: I noticed your "thingy" signature line. I wonder what happened to that old reprobate?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

'Scuse me, but you just contradicted yourself within your own post. This thread is about a fella who wants to know whether to buy a rotary cutter or a finish mower for pasture maintenance. I described the end result desired in maintaining a rotary cutter blade for just that purpose; specifically, it should be "left with a blunt leading edge of at least 1/8" thickness".

You call that ridiculous, yet go on to state "A bush hog blade intended to be used in conditions typical for a bush hog SHOULD be ground slightly blunt." So how does that make my statement ridiculous, and yours correct?

Sure you can get closer to a normal life from a rotary cutter blade sharpened to a knife edge - IF - if it's not subjected to anything more abusive than a typical lawn. But the OP is talking pasture, and I responded to the knife edge claim from the perspective of pasture.

But go ahead - sharpen that sucker good enough to shave with. Then tell me what your first five words might be - immediately after hitting three fist-sized rocks and a hidden T-post. So let's try to avoid mixing the apples with the oranges here - ok?

//greg//

No contradiction, just a lack of reading comprehension skills on your part apparently. YOU, in a reply to someone suggesting sharpening a bush hog blade to use in a simular manner as a lawn mower blade on a finish mower, said it would diminish the bush hog blade's life expectancy, and the implication is that the finish mower blade ISN'T vulnerable in the same conditions. Just not so in a case where the two would be used for the exact same purpose under the exact same conditions, which as described is mowing a pasture. Not at all difficult to understand. YOU were the one who wanted to mix apples and oranges, just so your "apple" would APPEAR to be the only choice.

Subject both a finish mower blade sharpened to normal edge, and a bush hog blade sharpened to the SAME EDGE, and the bush hog blade wouldn't be any more vulnerable than the finish mower blade and likely MORE able to resist damage simply because it's a much heavier built item.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it wrong. It simply means you just don't understand.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Ok, that's the answer I expected. It explains your "cutting edge" philosophy. But do you really think the knife-edge is also appropriate for rough cutting out in a pasture? Clearing brush? Mowing through roadside litter?

//greg//

Is a knife edge appropriate for rough cutting? Probably not. Is a sharpened bush hog blade used along side of a lawn mower style blade with a sharp edge any more (or less) vulnerable? Absolutely not. Again, you're selling oranges out of your apple cart.

 

[Soundguy]

I have the same finish mower that Greg has, GM35-84 and the blades are no where even close to a lawn mower blade. If I remember right, there .250" thick (1/4"). I cant see where you can compare that to a lawn mower blade.

Compair that to a rotary mower that has 3/8 to 1/2" blades...

The blades on my murray rider mower are exactly 3/16 metal.. that's awfull close to 1/4

soundguy

 

[have_blue]

Ok, that's the answer I expected. It explains your "cutting edge" philosophy. But do you really think the knife-edge is also appropriate for rough cutting out in a pasture? Clearing brush? Mowing through roadside litter?

//greg//

I've already answered that more than once, above.

My point is, a RC can double as a RFM by sharpening the blades like a RFM. The RC is more versatile, and lower maintenance. An RFM can't really double as a brush cutter, though both the units I have used have a massive gear box, shaft, bearings, and heavy blades.

For mowing pasture, the only benefit to a RFM is, a given tractor can pull a wider unit. Depending on the amount of land, that can be very important to the land owner, or not. I have 10a, and mow about 7a of it. I've mowed the entire 7a many times with both an RC and 2 different RFM's. I'm much happier with the RC. YMMV!

 

[RickB]

After deciding on a Bush Hog Squealer SQ172 I suffered sticker shock when the best deal I could find was $1750 +Tax. Granted that was new and included chains and slip-clutch, but I was not planning on spending $2000 to cut grass. I was set to pay this and be happy and then I find a slightly used Bush Hog 72" FM for $1100 dollars. Now I'm not cheap and always buy the best I can afford but $900 is allot of beer. So let me drag this one around the yard again.

8-acres, rolling hills and clumps of grass, nothing over 3/4", I believe the finish mower would cut fine as I have used my 38" lawn tractor to cut about 1-acre without any major problems. My biggest concern is the wear and tear of the FM mower bouncing over the rough terrain. I have no doubt my lawn tractor would break an axle or two with continued used. Cutting speed is also a consideration as I would like to cut at least 2-acres/hour. Look at the picture and give me your thoughts. TIA

With a 6 foot implement and 75% efficiency, you are looking at 3.66 MPH or thereabouts to achieve 2ac/hr. Your concerns about RFM wheels, axles and yokes are valid. Unless your pastures are golf fairways, a BH RFM won't hack it at that speed. A Woods RM990 is wider, has swinging blades, and would be great for that application if you have the coin and HP. Otherwise, I'm with the guys who are steering you towards a Rotary Cutter.

 

[Buster57]

I have used both FM and rotary mower on my hillside acerage. If the rc is sharp you get a great cut.

The FM is less durable and more expensive so on more then 5 acres I would use the RC 90% of the time.

 

[Beltzington]

Thanks to all for your replies, I was out at the property last weekend and was able to see much more of the terrain since the winter kill and came to the decision it would be just too rough for a FM. Hopefully I will still be able to buy the new (last years) Bush Hog SQ172 for $2000. With no intent to start another debate, let me comment on a few of the posts.
-I had already determined my JD 3720 44HP 36PTO was enough to pull a 72 mower so I did not include this information
-I appreciate being reminded that life expectancy should always be included in the total cost of a purchase
-It is curious most of the FMs I have researched have thicker decks then comparable RCs so I guess the fact they are supporting their entire weight takes its toll
-I have not heard one bad word from any poster on TBN about the Bush Hog Squealer which makes me feel much better about my decision
-I do not want a manicured look for most of the property and plan on cutting height of 6-12 so another plus for the RC
-I originally wanted a flail mower but initial costs and availability changed my mind
-I have about 2000 of roadside with allot of rocks which appears to be another plus for the RC
-I'm planning on sharpening my first set of blades after I have beaten them up during the first season. Sound like this is controversial but a great excuse to use my angle grinder - sparks, loud noises, and dirty gloves make me smile
-I'm sure Greg_G would never had taken the time to reply to my post had he known I'm retired USAF. The Navy believes we over analyze everything!

Enough about attachments, here's wishing all of you a very safe and enjoyable Christmas and a very prosperous New Year!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks to all for your replies, I was out at the property last weekend and was able to see much more of the terrain since the winter kill and came to the decision it would be just too rough for a FM. Hopefully I will still be able to buy the new (last years) Bush Hog SQ172 for $2000. With no intent to start another debate, let me comment on a few of the posts.
-I had already determined my JD 3720 44HP 36PTO was enough to pull a 72 mower so I did not include this information
-I appreciate being reminded that life expectancy should always be included in the total cost of a purchase
-It is curious most of the FMs I have researched have thicker decks then comparable RCs so I guess the fact they are supporting their entire weight takes its toll
-I have not heard one bad word from any poster on TBN about the Bush Hog Squealer which makes me feel much better about my decision
-I do not want a manicured look for most of the property and plan on cutting height of 6-12 so another plus for the RC
-I originally wanted a flail mower but initial costs and availability changed my mind
-I have about 2000 of roadside with allot of rocks which appears to be another plus for the RC
-I'm planning on sharpening my first set of blades after I have beaten them up during the first season. Sound like this is controversial but a great excuse to use my angle grinder - sparks, loud noises, and dirty gloves make me smile
-I'm sure Greg_G would never had taken the time to reply to my post had he known I'm retired USAF. The Navy believes we over analyze everything!

Enough about attachments, here's wishing all of you a very safe and enjoyable Christmas and a very prosperous New Year!

OH NO.....I'm ex-Army. Didn't know we were dealing with a fly boy

 

[have_blue]

OH NO.....I'm ex-Army. Didn't know we were dealing with a fly boy

We used to resent the flyboys. They got hot meals every day while we ate mystery meat out of cans.

Merry Christmas to all!