American made tractors?

[chh]

Amazing the tangents these threads take. I am amazed that it has not been locked down yet.

 

[kcook]

Amazing the tangents these threads take. I am amazed that it has not been locked down yet.

I agree, this thead has gone off the deep end, it needs to be locked!!

 

[Builder]

I agree, this thead has gone off the deep end, it needs to be locked!!

Why? What's the harm in discussing some of the huge hurdles we face with our economic crisis? You can only discuss the pros/cons of R-1 tires so many times.

 

[redneckford]

Why? What's the harm in discussing some of the huge hurdles we face with our economic crisis? You can only discuss the pros/cons of R-1 tires so many times.

Can we use the parts off those gulf stream jets to build some american made tractors with r-1, r-4 and any other tire you what!!!

 

[kcook]

Why? What's the harm in discussing some of the huge hurdles we face with our economic crisis? You can only discuss the pros/cons of R-1 tires so many times.

Why, "What compact and small utility tractors are made in the USA?
I think the 4000 and 5000 series john deers are made in Augusta, Georgia. What about New Holland or Case-International or MF or McCormick tractors, talking 40 to 50 hp range." this was the posted question. I believe we have gone off course of what the posted was asking. If we want to discuss our economic crisis we should start a new posting.

KC

 

[Builder]

Why, "What compact and small utility tractors are made in the USA?
I think the 4000 and 5000 series john deers are made in Augusta, Georgia. What about New Holland or Case-International or MF or McCormick tractors, talking 40 to 50 hp range." this was the posted question. I believe we have gone off course of what the posted was asking. If we want to discuss our economic crisis we should start a new posting.

KC

They are mostly made by japanese or Korean subcontractors. This has been beaten to death over & over in previous threads.

 

[redneckford]

They are mostly made by japanese or Korean subcontractors. This has been beaten to death over & over in previous threads.

I thought they were made in those big factory buildings in Ohio and sent to Asia for parcel assembly Or was that Waterloo!!

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Final assembly, and I mean FINAL assembly, not "buy someone elses tractor made overseas and slap tires and new badges on it, a la Montana et al, but where system integration and mating of major sub-assemblies occurs is where a tractor is "made". This is why John Deere is an "American built" tractor.

Now, I know this is more or less true depending on the model, but compare with any Kubota for example, whom many a poster here would wish us to believe is no more of a foreign make than Deere.

Are Kubota's cabs and drivetrains made in Waterloo Iowa like Deere? No. Deere makes transmissions in Kansas too. Are their loaders made in Welland Ont? No.
Does Kubota make engines in Mexico? (We're talking NAFTA here folks) - No.

If you want to disassemble the thing right down to the last nut and bolt to analyze where it all came from, well that wouldn't be easy.

Look at commercial aircraft production, the most out-sourced business out there. No one company can afford to develop an entire aircraft anymore without sharing development risk among suppliers. Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer - they all use pretty much the same global suppliers. Where final assembly occurs for each is where the aircraft is considered "built".

What tractor company can afford to develop an entire range of products from scuts to large ag equipment, and build every component themselves without resorting to the use of global suppliers, joint ventures or risk sharing partners? Sure there are components made off shore, but I still contend that JDs assembled in Augusta or Coffeyville are still more "American" than anything else you can buy on this continent.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

People do business with people I understand that!! But other ways of communications are available now----it is called the computer and web meetings etc.

We actually do alot of web-based live meetings now and my need to travel has been reduced for sure, but still not as good as being there in person for certain needs. Training, hardware instl. troubleshooting, process/systems analysis come to mind. Keep in mind also, there can be time zone issues. I don't think my guys in Bangalore would be too happy if I fired off a live meeting invite for after lunch. Oops, sorry, you guys are at home and in bed asleep! Forgot.

Why do we need so many plane rides everyday to do business with all this technology available.

Same reason the "Paperless society" hasn't materialized yet.
I bet you and most everyone else around here prefer to look at a physical shop manual then trying to navigate around an online pub. uploaded to a computer screen. Wanna rest that laptop on your chest and dump hydraulic oil on it while you lay under your tractor?
Anyway, why not? Toronto to Montreal in 1 hour and ten minutes - hangar door to hangar door, instead of a 5 to 6 hour drive. Did you know that a Bombardier Q400 turboprop (76 passenger) gets around 3 litres per 100 km per passenger fuel economy?
OK, so it costs 30 million, what's your point.
Sorry, someone get this thread back on topic, i can't.

 

[Builder]

What tractor company can afford to develop an entire range of products from scuts to large ag equipment, and build every component themselves without resorting to the use of global suppliers, joint ventures or risk sharing partners?

I think Kubota is the tractor company that may be closest to the one that builds everything in-house. They outsource very little.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

I think Kubota is the tractor company that may be closest to the one that builds everything in-house. They outsource very little.

I agree Builder, maybe some others like Zetor, Ursus, Belarus...
Hey!, Belarus and Kubota might have something in common!

Although... I think I read somewhere that Kubota is building an assembly plant in Thailand to build tractors for the rice growing industry which is huge there.

 

[NuBota]

I always scratch my head on these types of threads. Seems like the discussion revolves around what percentage of the tractor in American made and where the money goes.

As far as they percentage of the tractor, not sure it matters.

But where the money goes gets me wondering. Have much revenue is generated by the tractor itself vs the revenue generated before and after the sale. Big ticket items usually have a small margin. But when you think of distribution, service/maintenance and parts - I always felt that is where the money is made.

Obviously, if the tractor was 100% American made, then all replacement parts would be as well. If the frame of my American tractor was made and assembled in the US - well that's great - but how often are those components replaced vs the engine, tranny, hydraulics, etc. Routine maintenance items (filters, etc) probably have the highest margin and most volume - likely generating the most revenue - but where is THAT money going....?

Might be all wet - but just another thought on the topic....

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I don't think that the quality thing is what bothers people. I think several of the imports, well, at least one, isusually thought of as having the best quality.

I think people naturally want to support US based companies that support US based workers. And I think that is a good and proper impulse. But I think it is impossible. And in that regard no one is more or less patriotic or supportive of the American worker whether he buys a Kubota or a Deere.

BUT...the rationalization used by more than most is that tractors built on foriegn soil (other than Japan) are automatically of lower quality. While that MAY be true in some cases, it's more to do with who an how they're made and NOT where.

And again, if those same buyers want to support a US based company, why not AGCO? (Duluth Georgia) (MF/Cat Challenger)

 

[WilliamBos]

BUT...the rationalization used by more than most is that tractors built on foriegn soil (other than Japan) are automatically of lower quality. While that MAY be true in some cases, it's more to do with who an how they're made and NOT where.

And again, if those same buyers want to support a US based company, why not AGCO? (Duluth Georgia) (MF/Cat Challenger)

Well said Bill. I really think that mindset needs to change. It is not where they are made, it could be the person on the line had a bad day or whatever. After all, if ANY ONE try's to tell me that have never had a problem with anything built in NA, I will show you a liar.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Are Kubota's cabs and drivetrains made in Waterloo Iowa like Deere? No. Deere makes transmissions in Kansas too. Are their loaders made in Welland Ont? No.
Does Kubota make engines in Mexico? (We're talking NAFTA here folks) - No.

Your statement is true about the large farm equipment, however the compacts and utility tractors are not done in those factories. Deere does not hide that, if you look at the spec sheets it says made in Japan or India right on then. While Deere and Yanmar have begun to part ways, they are still very much involved with each other.

the money goes gets me wondering. Have much revenue is generated by the tractor itself vs the revenue generated before and after the sale. Big ticket items usually have a small margin. But when you think of distribution, service/maintenance and parts - I always felt that is where the money is made.

For those who care about buying American made, this is exactly where the conversation should be. This is why car companies have to put this on their window stickers. The profit is peanuts compared to the infrastructure and materials used in producing the product. A Toyota Tundra is more American made than a Dodge Ram, just like a Kubota BX is more American made than a subcomapct Deere. In both cases the Japanese company is doing more for this country than the American one.

 

[redneckford]

Your statement is true about the large farm equipment, however the compacts and utility tractors are not done in those factories. Deere does not hide that, if you look at the spec sheets it says made in Japan or India right on then. While Deere and Yanmar have begun to part ways, they are still very much involved with each other.



For those who care about buying American made, this is exactly where the conversation should be. This is why car companies have to put this on their window stickers. The profit is peanuts compared to the infrastructure and materials used in producing the product. A Toyota Tundra is more American made than a Dodge Ram, just like a Kubota BX is more American made than a subcomapct Deere. In both cases the Japanese company is doing more for this country than the American one.

I guess that all those $7 per hour employee's are buying all those tractors and houses and cars---Wrong answer---People want other people to work for nothing so that their dollar will go further---union and nonunion---Did anyone say Wally World-----We have to change that way of thinking----We can not expect a service mechanic to work on your stuff cause you are too Lazy??? unknowledgable----or what ever other excuse you want to use and then raise heck cause someone wants to make a "profit"!!!!to pay the bills---gotta wonder about all these folks that think everyone but them are getting rich in the tractor business---many dealers can not stay in business if we buy all our parts on line and only use them when it is to difficult to do ourselves---it is all about me me me---I understand that is how the capitalist system works---but we are not in a vacuum here---many foreign parts MFG's get government assistance just like many right here in the US. I do not have the answer but sending $700 billion a year overseas is not the correct answer neither is sending all our Manufacting jobs off shore cause they will work and live for less----HOW MANY TRACTORS HAVE THE $7 PER HOUR HAND BOUGHT IN THE LAST 5 YEARS---IT COULD BE YOUR JOB NEXT!!!! How many people have a job building airplanes for the exec's to ride in---think they are mad that the exec's flew to D.C.----what about the pilot -what about the guy working at the airport---ALL THOSE JOBS MATTER TOO!!!!

 

[Builder]

Good stuff.

 

[redneckford]

Who Killed Detroit and the U.S.A.?

VDARE.com: 11/20/08 - Who Killed Detroit?

You have to read the entire article or it won't make sense.

The truth is painful!!!

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Your statement is true about the large farm equipment, however the compacts and utility tractors are not done in those factories.

My 5425 "utility" tractor was. Maybe more accurately, SCUTs and CUTs aren't.

In both cases the Japanese company is doing more for this country than the American one.

How? Kubota has only one facility in Gainesville, Georgia where, according to their website, "one-third of all Kubota branded equipment sold in the United States is manufactured or assembled". Mostly "assembled" i would guess, which is basically, putting the ancillary bits on crated tractors shipped from Japan. I would like to know what is actually "manufactured" there. They do show a nice picture of some good 'ole boys putting the tires on some RTVs.